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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 10:14:31
I know that most of us who self injure worry about posting something that might trigger someone or encourage someone to try self injury.
But it's also a legitimate mental health issue that many struggle with.
I'm wondering if a separate self injury board might be the answer? You could direct self injury posts to that board. The board itself could have a trigger warning. And you could put up rules to discourage the glorification of self injury, if that is a concern to you. In other words, I know that some self injury sites have poetry or other artwork that appears to romanticize self injury, and if you have concerns about Babble being associated with that, you could put up rules that you would be comfortable with.
And people who might be frightened or who might be triggered could entirely avoid the board.
Just a thought.
Posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 10:53:51
In reply to Self injury board? - Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 10:14:31
I so struggle with the concept of boards for SI. In theory it's a great idea to offer an environment for people with a problem to extend support to each other. But, sometimes in practice I *think* what happens is a domino affect of SI triggering.
I keep telling myself to research this in journals to see if someone has done evidence-based work in this area, but I've just not found the time...you know how that is.
I've seen this happen in another on-line community where friendships developed, then one person "fell off the wagon", and was soon followed by several younger members of the community. Whether this was mear coincidence or not - I have no clue. Moon cycles? Tidal basins? Cancelling of Sex in the City? Who knows.
People who SI really truly need support. I just can't figure out what's the best way to offer that on-line. I just don't know!
Emmy...in a quandry
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 11:02:13
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 10:53:51
That's all true, but it's also true now because there are no rules against discussing SI now on the board. What I'm not sure of is whether a separate board would allow more or less protection than currently exists.
I definitely could see where Dr. Bob would want to have strict rules, such as the faith board has. The faith board has rules that state that the posts need to be not unsupportive of faith. An SI board could state that the goal was to encourage people to fight SI urges? I don't know.
I don't think it should be a restricted topic, but I do think the impact should be confined as much as possible.
On the other hand, the same thing is true of suicide discussions on board. And Dr. Bob hasn't kept us from discussing suicide (or self injury) and I don't really think he should, since this is a mental health board, and the ideas are there. If we don't mention them, they'd be the big pink elephant that everyone was ignoring.
Posted by judy1 on March 4, 2004, at 11:18:22
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » EmmyS, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 11:02:13
as long as the board had tough guidelines it would be a great support for people who si. there's times when i trigger easily and i wouldn't have to worry about inadvertently reading a post on another board concerning this subject. thanks for suggesting it.
Posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 11:26:51
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » EmmyS, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 11:02:13
You're right. It's a pink elephant. Talking about SI on the Social board is pretty wierd. That skin picking topic was making me lose my breakfast! (envision oatmeal on laptop)
Maybe good rules and great monitoring is the key. I'm just a born worrying. It's genetic.
Emmy
Posted by NikkiT2 on March 4, 2004, at 13:18:25
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 10:53:51
I use a board that discusses SI in some depth.. and last saturday I was at a SI conference..
I don't find, on this board, that the domino thing happens.. People just have an outlet to discuss it.. and all posts containing SI need some kindof warning of a trigger in the title. It seems to work well for us.
I think its a great idea Dinah.. its a very hard thing for anyone other than those that do it to understand.
Nikki x
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 4, 2004, at 14:06:23
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » EmmyS, posted by NikkiT2 on March 4, 2004, at 13:18:25
i think its a good idea dinah...
i wouldnt want to ever post something that would make someone else feel the need to vomit on their keyboard..
j
Posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 15:19:21
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob, posted by justyourlaugh on March 4, 2004, at 14:06:23
I managed to keep the oatmeal in place, and off the keyboard, thank you! I just focused on the embarrassment and expense of a professional cleaning.... :-)
I DO understand that people who SI need support - I work in a psych hospital and deal with SI issues constantly. The board would just need special attention and lots of hugs. Emmy
Posted by Elle2021 on March 4, 2004, at 23:55:56
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by EmmyS on March 4, 2004, at 11:26:51
>Talking about SI on the Social board is pretty wierd. That skin picking topic was making me lose my breakfast! (envision oatmeal on laptop)
Although I am sure you didn't mean to, that statement really hurt my feelings.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 0:01:48
In reply to Self injury board? - Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 10:14:31
I like the idea of an SI specific board. I used to post on a BPD specific board, and I can say that the domino effect was definitely evident. But, that board had virtually no rules. I think with strict, even rigid, rules, an SI board would be very helpful. We would have to have rules regarding exactly *how* specific one can be when describing how they SI-ed. Or, perhaps only limit it to saying, "I self injured today, and here is why." Then we would leave out the method. What do you think?
Elle
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2004, at 0:24:51
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 0:01:48
I think detailed descriptions of the method being prohibited would be a good idea. Similar to detailed prescriptions for how to successfully complete suicide being prohibited. Do you think it would be necessary to prohibit general descriptions like "cutting" or similar words?
I definitely wouldn't want to exacerbate anyone's problems. I just worry that I might be corrupting innocents or triggering vulnerable people by discussing it on the main boards. But there are a few "on the other hand"s involved, I guess.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 0:35:00
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on March 5, 2004, at 0:24:51
> Do you think it would be necessary to prohibit general descriptions like "cutting" or similar words?
I don't think that using general descriptions such as cutting/hitting/etc. would be inappropriate. I think those are fine. I just believe that going into great detail would be a bad idea. I know from my own experiences with people, that others have gotten ideas of how to SI.
> I definitely wouldn't want to exacerbate anyone's problems. I just worry that I might be corrupting innocents or triggering vulnerable people by discussing it on the main boards.I know how you feel! I'm always a little ancy about posting things about SI. I worry I might trigger someone or give them that extra push into beginning SI-ing! That is another good reason that we should have a separate board for these types of discussions.
Elle
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2004, at 0:51:49
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 0:01:48
> I don't find, on [that other] board, that the domino thing happens ... all posts containing SI need some kindof warning of a trigger in the title.
>
> Nikki> I think with strict, even rigid, rules, an SI board would be very helpful. We would have to have rules regarding exactly *how* specific one can be when describing how they SI-ed. Or, perhaps only limit it to saying, "I self injured today, and here is why." Then we would leave out the method. What do you think?
>
> ElleIt's an interesting idea. I'd love to see research, too. And I hope people who SI don't feel their issues have been dismissed if a board like this doesn't get added. I guess my concerns are:
1. "Contagion".
2. If the goal is to protect people from posts that might trigger them, couldn't those posts just have a warning in the subject line? Would posts on the new board need warnings like that, anyway?
3. It might restrict how much support people who SI get, since there are people who go to other boards that might not go to that board.
4. Rules are a can of worms. People tend not to like them, and it can be hard to spell them out...
Bob
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 1:07:29
In reply to Re: Self injury board?, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2004, at 0:51:49
Bob,
>1. "Contagion".
That's a good point. I have nothing to counter it with except that perhaps people who start self-injuring after reading the posts may have had a predisposition to be inclined to do it in the first place. But, OTOH, I would hate to be the person who puts that inclination into action.
> 2. If the goal is to protect people from posts that might trigger them, couldn't those posts just have a warning in the subject line? Would posts on the new board need warnings like that, anyway?
Not on the individual posts. Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the page that says something to the effect of, "The following material may be considered graphic by some, it discusses a subject that may be triggering for people who self-injure or have a weak stomach in general." Of course it would sound much more professional if you wrote it... :)
> 3. It might restrict how much support people who SI get, since there are people who go to other boards that might not go to that board.That's true, but I think the same goes for the idea of small town boards.
> 4. Rules are a can of worms. People tend not to like them, and it can be hard to spell them out...
I know, but I love rules and boundaries. They make me feel safe.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2004, at 1:25:07
In reply to Re: Self injury board?, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2004, at 0:51:49
The trouble is that there is already contagion, which is what prompted my suggestion. :( I'd like to minimize contagion, though this may not, of course, be the best way to do it. And while I'd like to minimize contagion, I'm also glad that the subject isn't off limits on a board dedicated to mental health.
It's quite a conundrum, and I'm certain I don't have the answer. I just wanted to put the topic out there for ideas.
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2004, at 10:01:08
In reply to Self injury board? - Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 10:14:31
I’m learning, from these boards, that there are several types of SI. I believe, though, that the biggest concern of adding a board of this type deals with methods of SI that are considered “more” dangerous or harmful. While I destroy my cuticles and perhaps that means I am pre-disposed to other methods of SI, I have never cut, hit, or done anything that would cause more bodily harm than a “bad manicure.” What I would like to share with you is that I have never even considered or thought about more serious SI *until* I started reading these boards. This is hard to admit, but there have been times, recently, where I have felt depressed and upset with myself and I have wondered if cutting would relieve some of the tension. Now, if I have had these thoughts in moments of relative clarity, what might happen to someone who is severely depressed or perhaps a teenager who is easily influenced or just looking for an outlet? I was particularly concerned, stunned, and saddened when I saw a post from a fellow Babbler that seemed to indicate she fell victim to her own speculation as to how cutting could help her deal with a difficult situation after reading others’ stories.
I don’t know if it would have deterred me from reading SI posts simply by reading a warning message on the boards where I wanted to participate. I do know, though, that there are currently boards I don’t frequent because I don’t feel they “apply” to me. Had I seen a separate SI board when I first got here, I don’t imagine I would have read many, if any, posts. Now, having been here for a while, if there was a separate SI board implemented, I’m guessing I would only visit when I knew I wasn’t feeling susceptible. That way, I could still offer support to the people I have grown to care for so much, but, if need be, I could avoid it altogether.
I do *not* believe anyone here at Babble posts with the intent of sharing ideas and I absolutely want those who SI to have an outlet for discussing their situations and individual pain. Currently, though, not every post containing references to SI includes a warning in the subject heading. Perhaps, if a new board isn’t implemented, at least a reminder to include subject header warnings could be posted occasionally.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 14:50:43
In reply to Re: Self injury board?, posted by All Done on March 5, 2004, at 10:01:08
All Done,
I hope that I have not contributed to giving you the idea to self-injure. :( I fear that I have. I'm sorry.I'm also not completely clear on your position on having an SI board. Is it a maybe or are you not comfortable with it? I would like to have one, but NOT if it is going to cause other people trouble, especially my friends that I care about! ((((All Done))))
Elle
Posted by All Done on March 5, 2004, at 15:31:08
In reply to Re: Self injury board? » All Done, posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 14:50:43
Elle,
Please don't worry. First off, I can honestly tell you I don't believe it was any one post or one person's post in particular that got me thinking. Secondly, I'm a big girl and I don't (and didn't) have to read anyone's posts about SI.
I'm worried more about others that might be particularly vulnerable. They would probably not be the ones who would want to admit being affected or influenced by others' posts so I thought I could add that perspective without having had a terrible result that might trigger guilt in anyone else. I did not want anyone to feel guilty, so I apologize for making you or anyone else feel that way.
As far as my position on the separate SI board, sorry if I wasn't clear. I tend to waffle quite a bit :(, but I really believe it would be a good idea. As I said before, I think it would have kept me from reading in the first place. I also believe that those who SI could use the "safe" place to go for support. I can imagine for some of you it gets worrisome posting on a more general board like Psych with those that might not understand as well.
That said, (here comes the waffling), I realize it could create more administrative issues for Dr. Bob and he may not want to have to enforce yet another set of rules. So, my final suggestion was, if there will be no SI board, post occasional reminders to posters about including warnings in the subject headers when a post contains discussion about SI.
Again, Elle, there's no need for you to be sorry. I'm sorry for making you feel guilty. You're always a sweetheart and I appreciate that!
All Done
Posted by EmmyS on March 5, 2004, at 19:25:24
In reply to Re: Self injury board? - Dr. Bob » EmmyS, posted by Elle2021 on March 4, 2004, at 23:55:56
Elle - You are correct, I truly did not mean to hurt your feelings, or anyone else's, of course. I apologize for being so flippant about a serious topic. I should know better. Sometimes my sense of humor gets in the way of my brain. Thank you bringing it to my attention.
Emmy.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 20:15:57
In reply to Re: Self injury board? » Elle2021, posted by EmmyS on March 5, 2004, at 19:25:24
Posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 20:38:39
In reply to Re: Self injury board? » Elle2021, posted by All Done on March 5, 2004, at 15:31:08
> That said, (here comes the waffling), I realize it could create more administrative issues for Dr. Bob and he may not want to have to enforce yet another set of rules.
Yeah, Bob also mentioned something about more rules.
> Again, Elle, there's no need for you to be sorry. I'm sorry for making you feel guilty. You're always a sweetheart and I appreciate that!
I just didn't want to think that something I had said made encouraged you to start Si-ing. I'm glad it didn't! :)
Elle
P.S. Your a sweetie too!
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 9:39:04
In reply to Re: Self injury board? » All Done, posted by Elle2021 on March 5, 2004, at 20:38:39
Okay, what is the definition of SI? I have never heard of this topic and yet I too have been hard on my cuticles...and was a cutter in my teen years.
It's kind of amazing to know that there are quite a few of us out here doing this.
It feels like a taboo coming into the light of day. Doing it is so different from reading about doing it.
This appears to be a rule breaking and enforcing nightmare for Dr. Bob.
I like the boundaries too but I don't have to enforce them.
This is the end of the thread.
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