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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 22, 2004, at 10:14:31
In reply to I'd go $5/yr » Dinah, posted by badhaircut on January 22, 2004, at 9:57:21
Thanx for your hard work on this. Even at T1 or DSL speeds it would take time, effort, and clarity of purpose.
(and thank [other] for me) I especially appreciate a previous post by [other] in which Dr Bob discussed what his mission statement was at that time. Great history study. Thanx...
I now feel more comfortable about my notion that this site is so much "more" than a chat room. Think of of what other chat rooms you might have visited. Czek your feelings about them and notice the contrast.
I'm joyful I am still welcome here.
Posted by shar on January 22, 2004, at 16:12:18
In reply to Fees and Babble, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 22:56:55
Posted by Elle2021 on January 22, 2004, at 16:21:03
In reply to Re: Fees and Babble » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 7:40:29
It's not just the money. Once I have to give my credit card number out, I don't have my anonymity anymore. I wouldn't be able to post here anymore because that would make me too uncomfortable. I think Babble would lose a lot of people if fees were inacted. But, I guess whatever has to happen, will.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 21:38:24
In reply to Re: Fees and Babble » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on January 22, 2004, at 16:21:03
Believe me, I understand. I'm the queen of paranioa. Like I said, I sent in my donation with a money order under my posting name. And then Dr. Bob kindly sent an acknowledgement (for both donations) to my office address which I had foolishly put on the envelope (this was back in the days when an envelope with no return address would likely cause a panic at the post office). So my office got *two* lovely letters acknowledging the donation addressed to Dinah (and they didn't know any Dinahs). Sigh. Fortunately my best friend (now deceased) worked there, and by the second letter had figured out that it was probably me, so she gave it to me. Fortunately I trusted her implicitly. But it gave me a major panic attack, I can tell you. Other than my therapist and my husband, no one knows about my Babble involvement. Of course, I'm not sure if there's anyone else I would mind knowing about my Babble involvement, but still I understand privacy concerns well.
Ok. I'll admit that it even scares me to click to a book to Amazon to buy it through Babble links.
And I can definitely see the problem when there is a joint credit card for married people. My husband knows all about Babble, and has promised not to peek, but not everyone is married to my husband.
Posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 22:01:16
In reply to I'd rather have fewer boards and no fee. (nm), posted by shar on January 22, 2004, at 16:12:18
I'm too darn lazy to click on all of them. I might be interested in the books discussions, but I rarely go over to that board and see if there are any new posts. And since it turns over so slowly, my posts don't stay purple (showing I've read them). So it's hard to find new posts sometimes. Same with Grief. I wonder if they couldn't both be incorporated back into Social. We talk about movies and things on Social, why not books? And we give and receive support on Social, is a separate Grief board necessary?
I get confused sometimes between Health, Alternative, and the medication board. But that might just be my ignorance of the topics at hand.
And Faith generates more blocks per post by far than any other board. It might be doing all the poor posters who will probably be blocked for trying to balance their faith and the civility rules a favor to close that board. At least on a trial basis. I feel so sorry for the poor Faith Board posters trying to feel their way...
But I doubt that would solve Dr. Bob's time crunch. It's the number of posts that is probably problematic, not the number of boards.
Posted by shar on January 22, 2004, at 22:37:55
In reply to Re: I wouldn't mind fewer boards... » shar, posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 22:01:16
>It's the number of posts that is probably problematic, not the number of boards.
Wouldn't paring down the number of boards automatically pare down the number of posts? Or am I missing something?
Shar
Posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 22:44:03
In reply to Re: I wouldn't mind fewer boards... » Dinah, posted by shar on January 22, 2004, at 22:37:55
Only if the posts weren't posted elsewhere. If the Alternative Board were done away with, and people didn't post about alternative medicine, then there would be fewer posts. But if it was again combined with the medication board, and people continued to post about it, there would be the same number of total posts, just on fewer boards and more to a board.
It might depend on the board.
I guess it's possible that as a board gets more Yahoo hits on a topic, it might attract more posters on that topic, and therefore total posts would go up.
But maybe Dr. Bob has better statistics on that?
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 23, 2004, at 1:54:19
In reply to Re: I wouldn't mind fewer boards... » shar, posted by Dinah on January 22, 2004, at 22:01:16
/BEGIN rant.exe
I personally disagree with making Babble a pay site. I don't know everything about this site and I don't presume to. In my opinion the issue of paying would change the dynamic of the community and not for the better. It woud not be consistent with the original intent of Babble, IMO.
I envision several issues. One being the exclusionary factor. Several people who could benefit from or be a benefit to the site would be turned away by a billing page. Some may not have bank accounts. Others may not have financial resources available to pay; for instance, people on a fixed income. The majority simply may not be willing to pay for lack of guaranteed answers, or on the basis of privacy.
Also, the feeling of entitlement that come with paying for something (warranties and disclaimers aside) could become a problem. If somebody is PCB'd, blocked or not feeling supported, one could fill an administrators Email box pretty quickly. There would also be the additional burden of tracking the money. This could lead to more time and energy to administrating the site, not to mention the possible need for additional software, staff and equipment.
These opinions are extreme, however I feel that these hypothetical tangents merit exploration.
Speaking for myself, I would not be able to continue due to lack of resources. I see posting here as a priviledge and try to conduct myself accordingly. My opinions could be way off base on this topic but I need to assert my feelings.
Everyone here is wonderfully supportive and I greatly appreciate Dr. Bob's facilitation of this community.
One thing I can think of is maybe advertising for donations more prominently. Maybe using pay-per-click ads on the site and/or an affiliate program like Amazon would help.
Thanks for letting me go on. And on. /END rant.exe
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2004, at 8:43:28
In reply to Re: Fees and Babble » Dinah, posted by Elle2021 on January 22, 2004, at 16:21:03
> Once I have to give my credit card number out, I don't have my anonymity anymore. I wouldn't be able to post here anymore because that would make me too uncomfortable.
If it would make you uncomfortable for me to know who you were, that definitely would be an issue, but it would just be me...
Bob
Posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 9:29:03
In reply to Re: anonymity, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2004, at 8:43:28
> If it would make you uncomfortable for me to know who you were, that definitely would be an issue, but it would just be me...
But would it? I mean, as PB continues to grow, at some point you'll *have* to have some assistants (who in my imagination would be U of C undergrads), and over years there will have to be successor if you burn out, become ill (God forbid), or make a career change. Those are likely possibilities.
Then there's Visa & the banks & their employees. And a paper trail theoretically open to the subpoenas of divorce lawyers, lawsuit defendants (and plaintiffs), overzealous law enforcement, etc. Those are unlikely possibilities, but they're also perfectly real. I don't think you can maintain that the ID disclosure would just be to you.
I'm *now* okay with having my PB anonymity slightly compromised by a fee, if it's necessary. Even if my bank or UC students could in theory ever tag the "real" me. But I don't know if I would have gotten involved here at first if I thought my posts could ever be connected to me. I guess I'm sympathetic with all sides on this.
-bhc
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 23, 2004, at 9:37:59
In reply to non just Bob » Dr. Bob, posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 9:29:03
I know I recently made a payment to someone via paypal, and they didn't find out my name, and I didn't find out theirs either.
Just the name they registered under, which was nothing like their real name (ala email address)
Paypal obviously know who I am though!!
Nikki
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2004, at 10:21:35
In reply to Paying for Babble, posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 23, 2004, at 1:54:19
It wouldn't be all that unusual. Bookgurl was mentioning that Weightwatchers charge $10 a meeting. The basket was passed to defray costs at the Debtors Anonymous group meeting and the other self help group I went to, and it's passed at my Sunday School class (proceeds going to supplement church activities) as well. Of course, those are voluntary, but it doesn't feel all that voluntary when the basket is passed around in public. The fact is that this site costs money to run, and Dr. Bob is donating his time. If we all get benefit from the site, it doesn't seem unreasonable to contribute to the basket through a fee.
I know there are free groups all over the internet, but you pay for them with popups, etc. And I know from the Yahoo groups I belong to that Yahoo is really cutting down on the space provided to the free groups and has now stopped attachments. I imagine that, like Picturetrail, the idea is to force the larger groups to pay for the service.
Privacy is certainly a concern, but I do think that paying for Babble isn't an unreasonable idea. I would miss all the people who wouldn't post here because of it, of course.
Posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 10:34:54
In reply to Re: Paying for Babble, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2004, at 10:21:35
> The fact is that this site costs money to run, and Dr. Bob is donating his time.
It's my impression that Dr. Bob is also donating his money. It'd be thousands, over the years.
-bhc
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 23, 2004, at 11:48:49
In reply to Paypal??, posted by NikkiT2 on January 23, 2004, at 9:37:59
I did some czekking and found that clickbank is now merged with PayPal. Remember, clickbank creates an [Identity Firewall].
PayPal/Clickbank is an affilliate program where DrBob could charge $10, clickbank keeps $1.50, the affilliate (another "T") gets a check for whatever DrBob says they should get, like $3.50, and DrBob gets the rest, say the $5 BHC proposed, (it could be more if the "T" share is less).
It starts making sense when you see the board get cleaned up and the raw number of post-ers goes from a couple hundred to a thousand.
So who donated $5,000 to Babble? Oh, no one yet?
The high points: safe profitable way to broaden Babble's base, adding purpose to the "T" links.
$10.00 that DrBob wants for Babble
$ 1.50 that PayPal\Clickbank keeps
$ 3.50 that "T" gets
---------------------------------------
$ 5.00 Babble getsnote: absolute identity firewall = free!
What if we recommend someone? DrBob could extend our posting period or offer us another board to post to, etc. etc. Then Babble gets $8.50!!!
What if PayPal/Clickbank needs $2.50 minimum per Xaction? Let's cross that bridge when it comes up. I really didn't see that in their presentation. But that's just how my mind works.
Rod
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2004, at 12:01:07
In reply to Re: Paying for Babble, posted by badhaircut on January 23, 2004, at 10:34:54
Following Dinah's analogy of passing the basket...The PB basket is more or less invisible. Perhaps if we were gently reminded with each post, (the confirmation page?) that donations are welcome, blah blah blah, then more would donate??? It would be a reminder that might feel more public than a link at the bottom of the page. I know I never even see that link.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 23, 2004, at 12:02:07
In reply to Re: Paypal?? Thanx » NikkiT2, posted by 64Bowtie on January 23, 2004, at 11:48:49
The reccomending idea is good.. at the cat site / message board site I use, when you become a member, you get to "nominate" a sponser, who then gets a free month!! I've made about 6 of these recently, so the four month membership I bought, is now ten months!! Yay!
Just as an example.. this is how much that site charges..
$30.00 - Initial citizenship plus 4 months.
$40.00 - Initial Citizenship plus 6 months.
$65.00 - Initial Citizenship plus 12 months.(its cheaper as a renewing member by $10 which ever option you choose)
I've paid for membership of this site for 7 years now, and even when I am at my most poor, I *will* find the money for it, as its such an important source of support and friendship for me. I feel the same way about Dr Bobs. I don't often socialise out side of my home (a few times a year), so I count this as my "beer money"!!
And remember that Dr Bob is part of Amazon affiliate scheme.. when ever I shop at Amazon, I make sure I do so via Dr Bobs link.
I'm not sure how you came up with PB only receiving 50% of any PayPal stuff though.. Who is the "T" you mention??
I thought PayPal only take about 3% of the transaction? I'm looking into setting it up on a charities website I do work for you see.Nikki
Posted by Karen_kay on January 23, 2004, at 12:45:02
In reply to Re: Paypal?? Thanx » 64Bowtie, posted by NikkiT2 on January 23, 2004, at 12:02:07
And remember that Dr Bob is part of Amazon affiliate scheme.. when ever I shop at Amazon, I make sure I do so via Dr Bobs link.
**Hmmm.. Thanks for that important reminder as well. I've been buying text books at the book store when I could have been buying them here for the same price, if not cheaper. And I haven't always been using Bob's link to Amazon. Someone slap my hand.
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 23, 2004, at 17:30:32
In reply to Re: Paypal?? Thanx » 64Bowtie, posted by NikkiT2 on January 23, 2004, at 12:02:07
Thanx for your concern
1. "T" seems to be Babble shorthand for "therapist". I've also seen "pdoc" used.
2. In an earlier post I pointed out that "therapists" could be affilliates and make a small amount for their referrals to Babble. Some have reported that their "T" was greatly stressed when they (client) disclosed that they were doing self-help and/or Babble. I see an option for the "T" to embrace Babble and get "greased" for there referrals.
3. I wish these affilliate programs had their sharing models etched in concrete, but that's not how the game is played right now. The examples they provide are sorta sliding (and slipping) scales. For sure, three people get paid:
a. Clickbank
b. Referring affilliate
c. Producer of the service or productI was only giving an example worth negotiating:
a. 15% clickbank (can be more or less)
b. 35% referring affilliate (can be upto to 60%)
c. 50% remainder to producer (Babble)
d. I added that DrBob could add an affilliate category that would allow for Babble getting 85% and part being used as a set-aside similar to your buying months at your "cats" site.Hope this clarifies things
Rod
Posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:36:54
In reply to Re: Re: Paypal?? ClickBank joined PayPal » NikkiT2, posted by 64Bowtie on January 23, 2004, at 17:30:32
Oh no. If you are suggesting that we all tell our therapists about this site, to get them to pay for a referral system, then I totally disagree with that.
It is a wonderful idea. However, I would not tell my therapist or my psychiatrist ever that I post here. I am completely sure that both of them would be able to pick me out in a heartbeat. I don't want them to know I post here. For me this is the place where I can get advice about interacting with them, and other perspectives on the advice they give me. I would really not like it if one day I walk into Burt's office and he says, you know, that last post of yours really hurt my feelings, I'm terminating you.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:43:07
In reply to Re: anonymity, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2004, at 8:43:28
I suppose that is true, only you would know who I am and where I live. Perhaps if I was able to send cash and a note with my posting name. No return address of course. And also, I wouldn't want a thank you like Dinah got; I would just assume that you were thankful, etc. Perhaps that would work, but the idea still makes me kinda uncomfortable. I understand that you aren't a bank, and you have spending limits. I'm just thankful that you started this site to begin with. It's been very helpful.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2004, at 20:09:31
In reply to Re: Re: Paypal?? ClickBank joined PayPal » 64Bowtie, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:36:54
Don't worry, Elle. I'm guessing their code of ethics would frown on taking commissions in the course of their professional activities. Most professional organizations do disapprove of that.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 24, 2004, at 2:32:07
In reply to Re: Re: Paypal?? ClickBank joined PayPal » Elle2021, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2004, at 20:09:31
Yikes, I just read my last post. I guess I was a little off kilter last night.
To generate revenue for the site, I do think that prominently advertising for donations on the site (PayPal button, etc.), Amazon referrals and/or ad revenue programs should be checked into before requiring a subscription
I certainly appreciate the job Dr. Bob does on this sight. Coming from a former site designer, I unerstand how much work goes into running a site like this and I consider myself lucky to have found it.
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 24, 2004, at 10:00:31
In reply to Re: Re: Paypal?? ClickBank joined PayPal » 64Bowtie, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:36:54
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 24, 2004, at 10:11:34
In reply to Re: Re: Paypal?? ClickBank joined PayPal » 64Bowtie, posted by Elle2021 on January 23, 2004, at 19:36:54
I trust your judgement.
Seems like this topic got lotsa juices flowing, and for the good of all. Shows we all appreciate DrBob and his hard work......
Rod
Posted by allisonm on January 24, 2004, at 12:34:30
In reply to Fees and Babble, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 22:56:55
I recently visited a web site that I use to get times
for sunrise and sunset (www.sunrisesunset.com) that has a new feature at the top that allows people to donate money to support the site through Amazon.com.
(http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/subst/fx/home.html/ref%3Dtab%5Fz%5Fz%5F10/058-4374414-5065866)I emailed Dr. Bob about it a few days ago but got no response. Has anyone else seen/considered this?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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