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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 108. Go back in thread:
Posted by shar on November 19, 2003, at 18:43:07
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do?, posted by Dinah on November 19, 2003, at 16:33:41
I confess I have not read this whole thread.
What Dr. Bob *can* do is alert whomever he can via his knowledge of the signer-oners ISP, and which has been done before (for which I am grateful!).
Beyond that, he (Dr. Bob) is not responsible for saving people who may talk about suicide (which I have done, even recently), or make suicidal gestures.
I feel only sadness that this would be the only place one would have to turn (ie, not a therapist, or pdoc, or friend, or ER, or mental heatlh facility, etc.).
I hope I don't get a PBC for this! Someone might read it and feel bad.......
Shar
Posted by Liligoth on November 19, 2003, at 22:49:31
In reply to 4/5 year ban for fake suicide postings??, posted by ace on November 18, 2003, at 20:27:13
> If we find someone has indeed faked a suicide is a 4 or 5 year ban adequate?
>
> I feel it's a very hurtful thing to do...All I feel I can safely say on this is that 4 or 5 years pretty much equates to permanent in my view. I really dont know whether I agree with that. On the one hand I think anyone deserves a second chance & maybe someone who would fake suicide really needs to be a contributor to this board for their own healing.
But a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 20, 2003, at 5:24:54
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do?, posted by Dinah on November 19, 2003, at 16:33:41
he can check out the IP address of who ever posted the P message, and see whether its form the same ISP as Krissy for a start.. and try and find out if Krissy really is dead.
This is messing with my head too much. This not knowing anything
Nikki
Posted by zenn4 on November 20, 2003, at 8:25:33
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do? » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on November 20, 2003, at 5:24:54
I am one of those new posters so I run the risk of being shunned. Yet, I find I have something to say about this. Two "real" suicides occurred last week and blew my mind. They literally happened within hours of the other. Which is why I began posting instead of simply reading. While I think the person who has faked suicide is in need of real help, there has to be some kind of consequence for your behavior. Being this is a "virtual" community; many of us do not know the other posters personally and solely rely on information given and shared. If someone shatters that, there should be a consquence because the safety and harmony of the community is compromised. Just my opinion, but we are all suffering in some way or another. Some one who makes a choice to act out should have to deal with the consequence. Just as we deal with the consequence of reading a post from a "suicide". That has real consequences for many people reading this board. I do not feel like solely punitive action needs to be taken, but some action is required. On the other hand, (if I may point out), the poster who did this perhaps is getting the negative attention they are seeking and we, I, am perpetuating this by keeping it going. The only way to snuff out a fire is to deprive it of oxygen.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:40:52
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do? » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on November 20, 2003, at 5:24:54
I'm guessing from Dr. Bob's post that he did his best at doing that. If the IP matched that of a different known poster, there would have been consequences. So he's probably done all he can. Which is not to say that the IP address was Kristen's either. He apparently couldn't find out anything conclusive from it though. (And I'm just guessing here.)
So what can he do at this point?
I'm not altogether sure whether posing as someone else and announcing your own death is a violation of the civility rules. I hope that if it wasn't before, it is now. I'm almost positive posing as someone else and announcing someone else's death would be a violation.
So I'm reasonably sure, if P is identified and returns to the site, there will be consequences and they will be as public as any other admin actions are. If P doesn't return to the site, we'll probably be left not knowing what happened for sure.
I really didn't want to admit that I went this far, but I checked the online obits from the area I think she said she came from and saw nothing. But since my memory of her posts isn't all that strong, I could be wrong.
If anyone finds out she's alive, I'd hope they'd post as much to quell the worries of those who are concerned. I'm guessing it would be easier for them to do that if they weren't afraid it would bring up a firestorm of anger against Kristen. If I were a friend of Kristen's and in the position to know she was alive, I'd feel awfully torn between my concern for the posters here and my knowledge of the likely consequence of angry posts aimed at Kristen. At least I would, I'm not speaking for anyone, since to my knowledge, no one knows anything. Perhaps anyone who knows about Kristen's status could email Dr. Bob. And anyone who knows who P is could email Dr. Bob.
Otherwise, I think all we can do is assume Kristen is ok, and move on with the board. At least that's my, in this case, genuinely humble opinion. Because if I could think of something else, I'd be happy to drop my plan. So I guess I should say that all I've decided to do is to assume Kristen's ok, move on, and trust Dr. Bob to behave in a more open manner if the matter resurfaces.
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 20, 2003, at 10:13:41
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do? » NikkiT2, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:40:52
Yeah..
I'm just not quite so rational right now.. insomnia is doing very bad things to me! But I have some of my dear zopiclone for tonight.. woo hoo.. I may get to party tomorrow after all!!
Maybe its just all the realisation that being 30 is just round the corner *lol* (its still a year away, and I am only joking!)Anyway, I guess I could email Dr Bob and ask him what he can tell me. I wouldn't even be angry to know it was all a hoax from Kristen now.. Just to know would be so nice.
Ho hum. Maybe tomorrow I will feel better (I better damned well feel better tomorrow actually!!)
Nikki xx
Posted by oeps7 on November 20, 2003, at 11:13:10
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do? » Dinah, posted by NikkiT2 on November 20, 2003, at 10:13:41
Hey 30 is not so bad. For women 30's and older are supposed to be the best times of your life. I myself am 34 and have found my 30s to be better than my 20s.
:) :) :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 20, 2003, at 12:24:08
In reply to Re: But what *can* Dr. Bob do? » NikkiT2, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:40:52
> He apparently couldn't find out anything conclusive from it though. (And I'm just guessing here.)
Right, I couldn't find out anything conclusive.
> I'm not altogether sure whether posing as someone else and announcing your own death is a violation of the civility rules.
Yes, that would fall under posting "information ... that you know to be false".
> If anyone finds out she's alive, I'd hope they'd post as much to quell the worries of those who are concerned. I'm guessing it would be easier for them to do that if they weren't afraid it would bring up a firestorm of anger against Kristen.
Angry feelings, sure, but not uncivil posts, I hope...
> all I've decided to do is to assume Kristen's ok, move on, and trust Dr. Bob to behave in a more open manner if the matter resurfaces.
Sounds reasonable to me...
Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2003, at 17:00:23
In reply to 4/5 year ban for fake suicide postings??, posted by ace on November 18, 2003, at 20:27:13
> If we find someone has indeed faked a suicide is a 4 or 5 year ban adequate?
>
> I feel it's a very hurtful thing to do...I've got one thing to say (after advocating a lifetime ban myself)....Dr. Bob has repeatedly said that these Babble boards are not for everyone. Then why need we include anyone who would do a thing like this?
Lar
Posted by shar on November 20, 2003, at 19:13:28
In reply to Re: 4/5 year ban for fake suicide postings?? » ace, posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2003, at 17:00:23
Posted by stjames on November 20, 2003, at 19:52:37
In reply to Re: 4/5 year ban for fake suicide postings?? » ace, posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2003, at 17:00:23
If someone has pointed out to Dr Bob the place where
she/it posted about having "fun" at our expense, then he should already of done something.It seems at this board that even when a majority
are hurt by someone Dr. Bob will hold their needs
above the majority.
Posted by ace on November 20, 2003, at 20:04:59
In reply to Re: 4/5 year ban for fake suicide postings?? » ace, posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2003, at 17:00:23
> > If we find someone has indeed faked a suicide is a 4 or 5 year ban adequate?
> >
> > I feel it's a very hurtful thing to do...
>
> I've got one thing to say (after advocating a lifetime ban myself)....Dr. Bob has repeatedly said that these Babble boards are not for everyone. Then why need we include anyone who would do a thing like this?
>
> LarI tend to agree Larry. Threatening suicide or intimating at it to relatives whilst very depressed
is common...we all have probably done it or been the recipient of it.However, to put yourself on a mental health forum, where people are sometimes haunted by this subject, and pretend suicide is beyond the pale IMO. Obviously, and this is my opinion, there are reasons why the person does this and it is almost palpably clear the person is not emotionally grounded. However, transgression is transgression, and one should pay the price for their wrongdoings.
The 'price' for the wrongdoing is subscribed according to the magnitude of the wrongdoing.
On a site which explicitly and implicitly deals at times, sometimes greatly, with suicidal feelings, the manifestations of suicidal feelings, derivative emotions of suicidal feelings etc etc, commiting the act of a fake suicide, again IMO, is a transgression of great magnitude. To contrast, by way of elucidating my view, the act of falsifying another persons death on this site, as opposed to ones on, is far less henious. Once again, my opinion.
I believe actually that the falsification of ones death is against the law.
Now with regards to Kristen, I have no idea of the current status of this person. I will not comment on anything until we know her status, if we do indeed find out. I will say however that she did commit the crime of faking a suicide on this forum. IMO, from that time onwards she should have been serving a 5 year, if not life, sentence.
Ace.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 21:05:58
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Larry Hoover, posted by ace on November 20, 2003, at 20:04:59
I wish that people would be able to understand the depth of pain that certain people are capable of feeling. This is why some people pull stunts like faking a suicide.
Being Borderline, I feel like I have more insight into that type of thing. When I am happy I literally CAN'T remember being sad and when I am sad I can't remember what happy feels like. Other people can use memories of happy events to pull themselves out of depression or unhappy feelings. I can't because I can't remember from time to time what they felt like.
I think that is what has happened here with Kristin. She needs our support and I will never be in favour of permanently banning her or anyone else who is desperate enough to fake a suicide.
Elle
Posted by ace on November 20, 2003, at 21:20:40
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude', posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 21:05:58
> I wish that people would be able to understand the depth of pain that certain people are capable of feeling. This is why some people pull stunts like faking a suicide.
> Being Borderline, I feel like I have more insight into that type of thing. When I am happy I literally CAN'T remember being sad and when I am sad I can't remember what happy feels like. Other people can use memories of happy events to pull themselves out of depression or unhappy feelings. I can't because I can't remember from time to time what they felt like.
> I think that is what has happened here with Kristin. She needs our support and I will never be in favour of permanently banning her or anyone else who is desperate enough to fake a suicide.
> Elle
But what about her laughing about it on another site? And what about all those people who might have the same temptation but resist it out of worry for other people's feelings?Surely the fake 'suicider' would learn from their bad behaviour and probably would not post another fake suicide on the next forum they found?...
Posted by shar on November 20, 2003, at 22:00:26
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Elle2021, posted by ace on November 20, 2003, at 21:20:40
So as not to get banned, or get a pbc, I would like to say that we cannot talk much about people who threaten suicide, or those who claim others have, indeed, done themselves in.
It is known that I talk about suicidal FEELINGS, which is apparently NOT the same as talking about suicide.
I hope I have learned the message this board sends to those who share my proclivities.
Shar
Posted by stjames on November 20, 2003, at 22:53:30
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude', posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 21:05:58
> Being Borderline, I feel like I have more insight into that type of thing. When I am happy I literally CAN'T remember being sad and when I am sad I can't remember what happy feels like. Other people can use memories of happy events to pull themselves out of depression or unhappy feelings. I can't because I can't remember from time to time what they felt like.
NOTE TO ALL BORDERLINERS:It hurts us when you play the game of suicide.
Try to remember this.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 23:00:15
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Elle2021, posted by ace on November 20, 2003, at 21:20:40
> But what about her laughing about it on another site?
Laughing about it on another site shows her degree of mental illness. I completely agree with you that it is highly inappropriate behaviour.
> Surely the fake 'suicider' would learn from their bad behaviour and probably would not post another fake suicide on the next forum they found?...
As I mentioned in my first post, there is always a chance of reoffending...apparently a high chance. I doubt that a person in a bad state of depression would "learn" from their mistake right away. Recovery takes time as I am sure you are aware of.
I am in favour of a block for an offender. They should be punished as to learn that what they did was wrong. BUT, my point is, they shouldn't be permanently blocked. People often need second, third, fourth, and sometimes even fifth chances. I wouldn't want to alienate anyone. My goal is to help and support the people here. I know they may pull some hurtful stunts, but I know that is typical of mentally ill people. I expected it. I knew what I was getting into when I got on this board. This board isn't just for people recovering, it is also for people who are in the throes of illness.
...okay, I will get off my soapbox now. :) God bless!
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:37
In reply to ban for suicide postings??, posted by stjames on November 20, 2003, at 22:53:30
Is this post by stjames civil? I am feeling a bit offended.
Elle> > Being Borderline, I feel like I have more insight into that type of thing. When I am happy I literally CAN'T remember being sad and when I am sad I can't remember what happy feels like. Other people can use memories of happy events to pull themselves out of depression or unhappy feelings. I can't because I can't remember from time to time what they felt like.
>
>
> NOTE TO ALL BORDERLINERS:
>
> It hurts us when you play the game of suicide.
> Try to remember this.
>
>
Posted by sb417 on November 21, 2003, at 0:58:37
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude', posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 21:05:58
> I wish that people would be able to understand >the depth of pain that certain people are >capable of feeling. This is why some people >pull stunts like faking a suicide. > Elle
Elle, in this instance, it seemed more like intense anger and rage. I understand that you identify with the poster in question, but if I am not mistaken, you were not here on PB for a good part of this past year, were you? I think it would be very difficult for someone who wasn't here during that time to understand the full extent of the havoc that was wreaked on this site.
Posted by Elle2021 on November 21, 2003, at 1:05:49
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Elle2021, posted by sb417 on November 21, 2003, at 0:58:37
>...but if I am not mistaken, you were not here on PB for a good part of this past year, were you?
Your right, I wasn't here on this particular board.
>I think it would be very difficult for someone who wasn't here during that time to understand the full extent of the havoc that was wreaked on this site.
Actually, it isn't difficult to understand. I was on another board (very similar to this one) where people were contantly threatening suicide. I understand how it can wreak havoc.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:30:12
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » sb417, posted by Elle2021 on November 21, 2003, at 1:05:49
Posted by Elle2021 on November 21, 2003, at 4:28:29
In reply to Is this discussion general or case specific? (nm), posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:30:12
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2003, at 7:11:46
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude', posted by Elle2021 on November 20, 2003, at 21:05:58
> I wish that people would be able to understand the depth of pain that certain people are capable of feeling. This is why some people pull stunts like faking a suicide.
I'd like to separate two issues from what you are saying.
> Being Borderline, I feel like I have more insight into that type of thing. When I am happy I literally CAN'T remember being sad and when I am sad I can't remember what happy feels like. Other people can use memories of happy events to pull themselves out of depression or unhappy feelings. I can't because I can't remember from time to time what they felt like.
Your description of what it is like to have BPD is moving, and I understand the disorder rather well, having dated not one, but two, borderline women. It's not an easy thing to deal with, nor can rational thought control it.
> I think that is what has happened here with Kristin. She needs our support and I will never be in favour of permanently banning her or anyone else who is desperate enough to fake a suicide.
> ElleThe separate issue is whether she needs *our* support. Her need for support is not in question.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 8:17:31
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Elle2021, posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2003, at 7:11:46
> It's not an easy thing to deal with, nor can rational thought control it.
It isn't easy to control, and it certainly isn't easy to apply rational thought during a crisis. But go easy on us, Lar. The many recovering people with borderline personality disorder right here on the board, or those of us who identify with the disorder but make different choices on the behaviors, shows that the outlook is not so grim. But this belongs on Psychological Babble I suppose. :) (Just don't want you to get in any trouble with outraged posters, Lar.)
>
> The separate issue is whether she needs *our* support. Her need for support is not in question.
>
> Lar
>Elle, while I agree with you completely about BPD, I have to agree with Lar that this board isn't beneficial for everyone. While the format of Dr. Bob's adverse event report is amusing, its point is well taken. Without commenting on Kristen in particular, there are limitations and frustrations and potential for transference inherent in this medium that can actually exacerbate illness in some people. Without the support of a therapist who is familiar with my participation on this board (and who is quite patient) I'm not sure I could participate here myself. So I think that maybe people aren't intending to be as punitive with the idea of blocks as it might seem.
I know that Dr. Bob is no longer doing research at this site, but perhaps he might wish to compile some case studies about the complex negative reactions to an online support community, and what it might mean.
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 8:18:16
In reply to Re: For Lar and everyone...crime 'magnitude' » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 8:17:31
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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