![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
I find myself profoundly disturbed by some of Old School's recent posts on the Babble board, about Andrea Yeats sp?, about how therapy has no value.... If a person feels therapy has no value perhaps they should stay on the medical board. I don't see a dialogue developing here, I see (may I borrow Dinah's wording?) someone ranting. So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
Posted by OldSchool on February 23, 2002, at 16:53:33
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
> I find myself profoundly disturbed by some of Old School's recent posts on the Babble board, about Andrea Yeats sp?, about how therapy has no value.... If a person feels therapy has no value perhaps they should stay on the medical board. I don't see a dialogue developing here, I see (may I borrow Dinah's wording?) someone ranting. So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
Yes, I think you are overreacting very badly Judy. The psychobabble social board is for non medical issues and I was just expressing my distaste for much of what goes on in the mental health world and blowing off steam. I never at any point personally attacked you Judy, nor any other poster. I dont appreciate you coming over here on the admin board, complaining about me when I never said a darn thing about you...I know what your underlying objective is...to get me kicked off.
The fact of the matter about Yates is that while severe mental illness does and can create thoughts of violence or homicide, there is a fundamental difference between someone who has these thoughts and someone who actually carries out these thoughts and committs physical murder. Im sorry, but whether or not Yates was psychotic or not does not matter. She still murdered and murder is murder is murder.
I feel that using Yate's mental illness as an excuse for murder gives all the rest of us a bad name in a sense. It also creates much legal and liability issues for psychiatrists and sometimes complicates treatment...many times leading to needless overmedication because these psychiatrists tend to overreact many times. The reason they tend to overreact is because of legal/liability issues. Liability complications that filters down to all the rest of us mentally ill people, in effect creating an environment of ill will and distrust between psychiatrist and patient. I have personally experienced this sort of thing myself and know what I am talking about.
I feel we would all be better off if the mentally ill were just treated like regular folks...and not as mentally ill "psychotic" people. If you committ a violent crime while mentally ill, you still are treated as a regular Joe and still must go to a regular prison. Instead, youd be a criminal who also takes psychiatry drugs to manage a medical condition.
I believe in the total "mainstreaming" of the mentally ill and I believe that mental illness should be recognized purely as a physical, brain based neurological disease. Untreated its a disability, however it does not give you the right or excuse to murder.
Again, I dont appreciate you coming here to complain about me as I have done nothing wrong. I was merely stating my own personal feelings about this issue and never attacked any single specific poster. I find myself disturbed at your excess sensitivity towards something I posted, which was not directed at you.
Strong opinions should not get you booted on this board.
Old School
Posted by kiddo on February 23, 2002, at 17:22:12
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
I tend to agree with you; perhaps dr bob should create another board that deals with therapy/support and leave social just 'being social'
just by your message he's able to detect your underlying objective
Posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 17:30:29
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting?, posted by OldSchool on February 23, 2002, at 16:53:33
and never suggested anyone should be 'booted'. i am extremely sensitive and i shall leave it at that-j
Posted by Bekka H. on February 23, 2002, at 19:23:13
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
I do think you are over reacting. Old School has a lot of knowledge and experience to contribute to these boards, and I've grown accustomed to him. Old School, like me and so many others here, has been put through the ringer by the psychiatric profession and he has a lot to be angry about. It is through his own strength, determination and desire to know the truth that he has saved himself from some lousy shrinks whose brilliant advice could have killed him. The same thing happened to me, so I can sympathize with what he has gone through. And, yes, if you don't get anything else out of therapy, you should learn that there is a vast difference between having feelings and acting on them. Feeling like killing someone is acceptable; killing someone is not.
Posted by Dinah on February 23, 2002, at 21:53:07
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
Judy,
I think you are wonderfully together in your postpartum period. I've been wanting to tell you that for some time. I was a complete mess after my son was born. By contrast, you are a model of good judgement. I could never have posted coherent sentences for months after my son was born.
Congratulations!
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 24, 2002, at 13:15:43
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
I persdonally see little point in "talk" therapy, as I don't have issues, didn;'t have bad uprbinging... But I do see point in socialising and being friendly with others.. talking and supporting others and receiving support when needed.
I thought the S in PSB stood for Social.. not for a T for Therapy
Nikki
Posted by trouble on February 24, 2002, at 14:40:34
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
Dear Judy,
Thank you for sharing your feelings, they are important.
I have a thing about the word "overeacting", I'm against it. It's a meaningless term for me.I appreciate Old School's posts for a number of reasons. Believe it or not I do find them useful in a didactive sense, I also find them very entertaining. But that's ME, you have a right to react in your own personal way as well.
If Old School was kicked off the board I for one would get hysterical about it, and glory in any accusations of overreaction.
You take care of yourself.
trouble> find myself profoundly disturbed by some of Old School's recent posts on the Babble board, about Andrea Yeats sp?, about how therapy has no value.... If a person feels therapy has no value perhaps they should stay on the medical board. I don't see a dialogue developing here, I see (may I borrow Dinah's wording?) someone ranting. So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 24, 2002, at 14:59:18
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting?, posted by OldSchool on February 23, 2002, at 16:53:33
"...I know what your underlying objective is...to get me kicked off."
OldSchool - you appear to be awfully paranoid. I'm sure that wasn't Judy's objective at all.
You obviously can't see how provoking your thread is. I don't have a problem with that, but it's certainly legitimate for someone else to.
Posted by OldSchool on February 24, 2002, at 16:05:43
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting? » OldSchool, posted by Krazy Kat on February 24, 2002, at 14:59:18
> "...I know what your underlying objective is...to get me kicked off."
>
> OldSchool - you appear to be awfully paranoid. I'm sure that wasn't Judy's objective at all.
>
> You obviously can't see how provoking your thread is. I don't have a problem with that, but it's certainly legitimate for someone else to.Whenever someone comes over here complaining about another poster and says that this poster "disturbs" them, then that is heading towards the direction of being banned. I dont know if you realize this or not <sarcasm> but Dr. Bob has a tendency to boot people on here at the drop of a hat it seems. A post that "disturbs" someone as Judy claims my posts "disturb" her would probably also be seen as "uncivil."
One thing leads to another. Disturbing posts could be interpreted as uncivil posts and uncivil posts leads to being banned. Do you understand that? This board if full of people who are excessively sensitive and politically correct and it needs to stop.
Instead of calling me paranoid, why dont you use some common sense? If someone says another poster "disturbs" them, thats basically the same thing as being uncivil. More or less the same thing on this board.
Old School
Posted by trouble on February 24, 2002, at 17:35:31
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting?, posted by OldSchool on February 24, 2002, at 16:05:43
Boy oh boy oh boy I can see it coming, getting myself tagged as Old School's b*tch, but his/her latest reply is breathtakingly dead-on.
Yes, it's frankly insensible to accuse one person of "intending" to get someone else kicked off the site. I didn't get that impression at all when I read it, BUT I was not the subject of the lament. That's the thing. And Old School's feelings were IMO totally in keeping w/ how I'd expect anyone to feel, under the circumstances.
Old School's feelings have been given short shrift in this matter, and if I were him/her that wouldn't go unnoticed either. If my name turned up on this board, unbeknownst to me, I'd be giving birth to defensive conspiracy theories far less coherent than his/hers.
Of course it is significant that this concern
showed up on the Administration board, again, please lets not ascribe motivation to others, it's not only unfriendly, it is, to be frank, ignorant. We can't know what's in another person's heart. Period.Old School, I'd like you to entertain the possibility that one turns to this board in distress not necessarily to tattle, but perhaps because of the no-nonsense, problem solving atomosphere here. That should lend some insight as to the depth of her ambivalence. She wasn't condemning so much as trying to figure you out, she was stymied, so she took her question to the next level. I see nothing wrong w/ that. And there were consequences. Of course.
I'm sorry if I'm ticking anybody off, but I'm confused too, and my way of dealing w/ that is to narrate the situation step by step to try to get the big picture. I know it can be a pain in the neck, but it's only my 2 cents worth.
trouble
> >
> > OldSchool - you appear to be awfully paranoid. I'm sure that wasn't Judy's objective at all.
> >
> > You obviously can't see how provoking your thread is. I don't have a problem with that, but it's certainly legitimate for someone else to.
>
> Whenever someone comes over here complaining about another poster and says that this poster "disturbs" them, then that is heading towards the direction of being banned. I dont know if you realize this or not <sarcasm> but Dr. Bob has a tendency to boot people on here at the drop of a hat it seems. A post that "disturbs" someone as Judy claims my posts "disturb" her would probably also be seen as "uncivil."
>
> One thing leads to another. Disturbing posts could be interpreted as uncivil posts and uncivil posts leads to being banned. Do you understand that? This board if full of people who are excessively sensitive and politically correct and it needs to stop.
>
> Instead of calling me paranoid, why dont you use some common sense? If someone says another poster "disturbs" them, thats basically the same thing as being uncivil. More or less the same thing on this board.
>
> Old School
Posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 21:48:58
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting?, posted by OldSchool on February 23, 2002, at 16:53:33
> So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
>> I dont appreciate you coming over here on the admin board, complaining about me when I never said a darn thing about you...I know what your underlying objective is...to get me kicked off.
This is absurd.
The woman expressed herself in a manner characteristic of and IDENTIFIED herself as a sensitive person--and in complete disregard of both the manner *and* the important content of her communication, you come back with a big, paranoid trounce designed to shame all comers into ever protesting anything *you* say ever again! (Not bloody likely, pal.)
I really don't like the way some of the men--my guess is older men, men at least 45---talk to some of the women around here.
Zo
Posted by Shar on February 24, 2002, at 21:59:50
In reply to Re: My god, Old School. . ., posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 21:48:58
I agree with Zo's position regarding your post. In addition, it doesn't really matter whether you are "overreacting" or not. If you find something disturbing, you find it disturbing, and you are certainly entitled to your very own feelings. And fully entitled to express them!
Whether someone agrees or disagrees with you is of really little consequence. It is their opinion or feeling versus your own opinion or feeling, and it is VERY hard to say one's is better than the other's.
FWIW, I agree that therapy can be very useful, and that the combo of meds and therapy is often extremely effective.
Shar
> > So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
> >
>
> > I dont appreciate you coming over here on the admin board, complaining about me when I never said a darn thing about you...I know what your underlying objective is...to get me kicked off.
>
> This is absurd.
>
> The woman expressed herself in a manner characteristic of and IDENTIFIED herself as a sensitive person--and in complete disregard of both the manner *and* the important content of her communication, you come back with a big, paranoid trounce designed to shame all comers into ever protesting anything *you* say ever again! (Not bloody likely, pal.)
>
> I really don't like the way some of the men--my guess is older men, men at least 45---talk to some of the women around here.
>
> Zo
Posted by spike4848 on February 24, 2002, at 23:13:59
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
> I find myself profoundly disturbed by some of Old School's recent posts on the Babble board, about Andrea Yeats sp?, about how therapy has no value.... If a person feels therapy has no value perhaps they should stay on the medical board. I don't see a dialogue developing here, I see (may I borrow Dinah's wording?) someone ranting. So I ask if I'm overeacting because I am in a post partum period and perhaps too easily triggered, Thank you- judy
Dear Judy,
Yes, I think you are overeacting. This board is intended for an exchange of ideas. Old School has presented his view on therapy and its merits. He is intitled to his view and also to express them here. Knowledge is power. Knowledge will set some of us free for this horrible illness depression.
I also do agree that this post is an obvious attempt to get Old School banned. I can not think of any other reason for you to have posted this "Personal note" to Dr Bob here at adminstration. Why didn't you simply voice your feeling to Old School back at Psycho-Babble instead of running to Dr Bob here at the adminstration board?
Spike
PS I hope you and your baby are well.
Posted by kiddo on February 25, 2002, at 0:50:13
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting? Yes! » judy1, posted by spike4848 on February 24, 2002, at 23:13:59
Spike-
I don’t understand how it can be acceptable for one person to voice their opinions and it’s merit, and yet another isn’t allowed that same courtesy. Judy expressed a valid concern of hers, placed that concern in the appropriate board and was quite civil in the message she posted.
To say that judy posted in an “obvious attempt” to get Old School banned is inconsiderate. I can’t think of a more appropriate place to post her concern. Perhaps she didn’t voice her feeling to Old School in fear of being retaliated against. I asked Old School my concerns to him and was told a host of things & quite bluntly might I add. Some people are very sensitive-and can be hurt a lot easier than others. With your being a ‘physician’ I’d have thought that would be more understandable by you more than anyone. I don’t know how anyone could read anything questionable about that post, but I guess that’s what happens when it’s all words and the frame of mind of the person reading it…it isn’t always easy to decipher a person’s motives through words alone with no body language, voice fluctuation or tone to assist them.
Respectfully,Kiddo
Posted by spike4848 on February 25, 2002, at 7:03:01
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting? Yes! » spike4848, posted by kiddo on February 25, 2002, at 0:50:13
> Spike-
>
> I don’t understand how it can be acceptable for one person to voice their opinions and it’s merit, and yet another isn’t allowed that same courtesy.I think we agree. I was trying to say even if someone has extreme views concerning therapy, they have the right to voice them. If I thought therapy was "a plot of the devil to harm us", even thought that is extreme, I should be able to express that here at babble. We still can learn from extreme views.
> To say that judy posted in an “obvious attempt” to get Old School banned is inconsiderate. I can’t think of a more appropriate place to post her concern. Perhaps she didn’t voice her feeling to Old School in fear of being retaliated against. I asked Old School my concerns to him and was told a host of things & quite bluntly might I add.
I was not aware of that. Old School has been nothing but informative and insiteful in all the posts I have read. But I have not read them all. Could you show me the post where Old School "told a host of things & quite bluntly"? Thanks.
>With your being a ‘physician’ I’d have thought that would be more understandable by you more than anyone. I don’t know how anyone could read anything questionable about that post, but I guess that’s what happens when it’s all words and the frame of mind of the person reading it…it isn’t always easy to decipher a person’s motives through words alone with no body language, voice fluctuation or tone to assist them.Maybe I was a bit concerned that Old School would get banned by Judy's post. I find him an invaluable source of knowledge. Even if I disagree with him (I usually don't), that is part of the learning process. For example, I think TSA West has very extreme views, I usually disagree with his/her advice ... but still learn from his/her posts.
I guess I wish Judy just spoke to Old School with her concerns first.
Sincerely,
Spike
PS I hope I did not offend you.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 25, 2002, at 8:21:32
In reply to Re: My god, Old School. . ., posted by Zo on February 24, 2002, at 21:48:58
Zo,
I don't think Old School said what he did cos Judy is female.. I guess he'd have said it to who ever.
It is hard on here... But remember she bought it over jhere, and I can understand why Old School felt attacked.. He is also "mentally ill" remember, so might not always have the best responses.
he felt attacked, and defended himself.. its nothing to do with who was male and who was female.. i think you're reading WAY too much into it.
nikki
Posted by noa on February 25, 2002, at 8:23:36
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting? Yes! » judy1, posted by spike4848 on February 24, 2002, at 23:13:59
To me, overreacting on this board is not about a feeling reaction. It is about how one acts.
To find something disturbing is not, imho, subject to evaluation as to whether the feeling is too much or just right. It is a feeling. Judy's feeling. Valid for what it is. She has a right to it, it just is.
Actions, on the other hand, are really the thing that this board can attempt to regulate--not the feelings. How one expresses their feelings--do they use I statements (and Judy's post did) or assume things about the other person? Is the post civil? Is it an actual exchange of ideas or does it use the kinds of "verbal terrorism" devices we learned about from Sara T. (search year 2000 archives)?
So, an overreaction, imho, on this board, is not in the feeling reaction, but in the nature of the online behavior.
Posted by trouble on February 25, 2002, at 10:59:04
In reply to Re: Am I overeacting? Let's define the term, posted by noa on February 25, 2002, at 8:23:36
Posted by judy1 on February 25, 2002, at 11:41:11
In reply to Am I overeacting?, posted by judy1 on February 23, 2002, at 14:44:51
for all your opinions. To Noa- you have an incredible gift of looking at something and stating it so beautifully (and you were right about my thyroid- 2 readings all over the place); Zo, if I had 10% of your ego strength I wouldn't be spending all my time with therapists :-)- thank you; and Kiddo, I felt I did do the proper thing and post on this board but you are right about my fear; and to Dinah and others thank you for your kindness. To OldSchool- I think I've been posting here 3 years and I have never asked or hinted to have anyone thrown off this board. As I said before, according to Dr. Bob's guidelines, this was the proper place for me to put this post. I am truly sorry you have so much anger.
"This board if full of people who are excessively sensitive and politically correct
and it needs to stop. "I agree with you here, I feel unsafe posting here and have been crying for the last several days. I don't belong here. Thank you everyone for all your help with my manic and depressive episodes, my life problems and my medical ones- I am most grateful. Please don't feel you need to prolong this thread any longer. Take care- judy
Posted by kiddo on February 25, 2002, at 11:44:23
In reply to Could you show me where Old School was Blunt? » kiddo, posted by spike4848 on February 25, 2002, at 7:03:01
If we agree, why shouldn’t judy be allowed to express herself on Administration without there being a motive behind it? Yes you should be able to express your views, as everyone should. I think Dr. Bob is pretty good about allowing that to happen as long as no civility laws are broken :-)
I’d rather not go into that (the previous post) if that’s alright with you. I have a bad feeling about it…the thread was to ‘me’ though, and thought I was asking questions because I wanted to know more about his situation.
I don’t think Old School would have gotten banned. Dr. Bob usually gives you a ‘PBC’ (please be civil) warning first. (I like to create my own Acronyms-if that’s the right word) Besides, judy was posting her concern and doubts that she was overreacting, and I don’t recall Dr. Bob ever banning someone when the other person had voiced a doubt in the post.
I do appreciate your PS (about offending me) and likewise.
Posted by kiddo on February 25, 2002, at 12:18:50
In reply to Thank you, posted by judy1 on February 25, 2002, at 11:41:11
I had a feeling something like this was going to happen. Please don't go. You are one of the ones I 'look for' when I'm scanning threads. Don't let the views and attitudes of others, (mine included if I've ever said or done anything to offend you) make you feel as if you don't belong here. You do-believe me.
If you feel unsafe posting, then don't post for now. Have you ever visited chat on Babble-Open? If you can, please do, I'm there now and would love to talk to you real time.
I know my words don't help much, but I feel that if you stop posting or leave for good because of this, I'm positive I won't be the only one upset over it.
You can email me if you'd like too kiddokid1@yahoo.com (scary :-)-I've never posted my email before)
Kiddo
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2002, at 14:10:48
In reply to Thank you, posted by judy1 on February 25, 2002, at 11:41:11
Judy,
I had the same talk with my therapist today. About whether I can handle even a cyber community or if the cost was greater than the benefits. I think I might be better in my make believe world.But he has convinced me that this is part of the way people interact. I replied "Not me!" of course. But I would miss so many people here. You, kiddo, mouse, krazy kat, mair, isoM, trouble, noa, wendy, willow, m3, and so many others that I can't even begin to name (and I'm sorry if I didn't - I'm rather distressed right now). And so for the present time, at least, I am going to continue to take the chance of interacting. And there are of plenty of people who will keep civility and the feelings of others in mind as they post. It might be best for you to just read the posts of the people you know are "safe" and respond where you feel you can. But my therapist is right. When you take a chance on people you do take a chance of getting hurt. But there are more people here who won't hurt you than who will.
And just to be clear, I am not distressed by the behavior of anyone on the board. I am not complaining about anyone on the board. My distress is totally self induced.
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2002, at 14:47:55
In reply to Re: Thank you » judy1, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2002, at 14:10:48
> Judy,
> I had the same talk with my therapist today. About whether I can handle even a cyber community or if the cost was greater than the benefits. I think I might be better in my make believe world.
>
> But he has convinced me that this is part of the way people interact. I replied "Not me!" of course. But I would miss so many people here. You, kiddo, mouse, krazy kat, mair, isoM, trouble, noa, wendy, willow, m3, and so many others that I can't even begin to name (and I'm sorry if I didn't - I'm rather distressed right now). And so for the present time, at least, I am going to continue to take the chance of interacting. And there are of plenty of people who will keep civility and the feelings of others in mind as they post. It might be best for you to just read the posts of the people you know are "safe" and respond where you feel you can. But my therapist is right. When you take a chance on people you do take a chance of getting hurt. But there are more people here who won't hurt you than who will.
>
> And just to be clear, I am not distressed by the behavior of anyone on the board. I am not complaining about anyone on the board. My distress is totally self induced.
And Jane, how on earth could I neglect to mention Jane. I'd never dream of forgetting her. :)
Posted by susan C on February 25, 2002, at 16:19:41
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2002, at 14:47:55
I have to be particularly careful about not only imput visually, aurally but reading too...I "censor" much of the board. If I were a "regular mental" I dont think I could physically read all the posts, let a lone not be affected in some way. I am in awe of drdashbob...I can understand how he does depend on the posters to give him feed back, he cant be everywhere at once, and he is not infallible.
So, where does this leave me?..like dinah, i could hide, be in my own insulated world, but this particiapation was a decision to participate in something, something, I could take or leave, participate or not, take hours to respond to or, chose to delete. When I first started posting it was very hard to articulate...chat was even harder, but it showed me when my brain was starting to flip...when it was being clear.
I, as well as others who have shared have used this forum as "practice". I practice there, and come to understand a perspective I could get no where else. I have gotten to know people with whom i have many things in common, all over the USA, Canada, Europe and the Far East, all over the world...how could I have ever found you with out this forum?
my illness is biological, with emotional results. I have yet to find a chemical "solution". I need all the support I can get. Thank you, all
bowing mouse
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