![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 11:20:49
In reply to Re: Grocery aisle analogy » sid, posted by jane d on January 29, 2002, at 0:21:40
Posted by fi on January 29, 2002, at 12:41:37
In reply to Re: purpose » Fi, posted by jane d on January 29, 2002, at 0:31:51
I agree there's quite an overlap between the site being educational and how I see it. A lot of coping tips type things are sharing info/skills, but I think some of the support isnt necessarily linked with something being educational.
But no big deal- dont want to get lost in terminology.
Fi
Posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 13:13:29
In reply to Re: separating discussions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 28, 2002, at 11:33:14
Well, Dr.Bob, after jane d's implicit suggestion that I was not being constructive, I started a new thread on rounded approaches to heal or deal with depression on PSB. I'll see how that goes and perhpas make constructive suggestions depending on results. I have the impression that PSB is more social than anything else and that serious discussions cannot be held there. I may be wrong. So I decided to give it a try.
Posted by Fi on January 29, 2002, at 14:28:18
In reply to giving it a try » Dr. Bob, posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 13:13:29
I'm glad you are giving it a try. Just to say as a regular PSB user, there are some extremely serious discussions there, as well as a chunk of social and the occasional more chatty, jokey comment. The whole range. Hope you get something useful out of it.
Fi
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 0:41:31
In reply to giving it a try » Dr. Bob, posted by sid on January 29, 2002, at 13:13:29
> not everybody goes to the dairy aisle of the veggy aisle without encouragement.
Right, but didn't I say encouragement was fine?
> So for good nutrition, we should have a bit of everything in each aisle. There goes your analogy! To improve people's welfare, current aisles are no good; they're made for grocers to make money, period.
Aisles make the process more efficient, no matter what the goal is. Health food stores have aisles, too...
> I'm stubborn, huh?
Yup! :-)
> Might as well not reply at all because the people who read the first statement will likely not bother to go look at the redirects.
>
> sidI agree, that's a risk. But:
1. That's one reason I post links to redirected threads, to make it easier for people to make the "jumps".
2. People who take a less thorough approach to looking for information will tend to end up less thoroughly informed. It helps if the information they come upon is balanced, but it would help if they bothered to make the jumps, too.
----
> I thought Dr Bob's 'educational objectives' were re him using the experience of providing such a setting for his research purposes. Not to educate *us*!
>
> FiYou mean when I say this is a message board for "mutual support and education"? I do in fact mean that people here educate each other as well as support each other.
----
> how about a green icon saying 'Redirect' that stays & don't disappear on redirected posts? And on the new page it was redirected to, there'd be the green icon but now saying 'Redirected'. Then the person who'd like to continue the discussion can find it easily.
>
> IsoMWell, there aren't special icons, but I do put "redirect", and used to put "redirected", in my subject lines... (I stopped saying "redirected" because I was afraid people might think those threads were only intended for those who had been posting on them before.)
And isn't it easier just to click on a link in the "redirect" post than to go to the other board and look for an icon?
----
> Well, Dr.Bob, after jane d's implicit suggestion that I was not being constructive, I started a new thread on rounded approaches to heal or deal with depression on PSB. I'll see how that goes and perhpas make constructive suggestions depending on results. I have the impression that PSB is more social than anything else and that serious discussions cannot be held there. I may be wrong. So I decided to give it a try.
>
> sidI was wrong, you're not so stubborn after all! :-)
So far so good with that thread?
I do think others might also feel more "serious" discussions might not fit in at PSB. That's why I proposed splitting it up:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/2502.html
----
> it did take a bit for me to figure out these forums too & I'm *not* computer uneducated either. For me, a lot of it has to do with the previous post still printed in the answer box & figuring out what is the new answer & what was there before.
>
> IsoMHmm, I think of it as something everyone's familiar with from email, but I think I'm wrong. Maybe I should add something to the FAQ about the > signs, previous posts, etc. Would anyone here like to volunteer to draft an explanation? Or knows of one online that I could just link to?
Bob
Posted by sid on January 31, 2002, at 1:15:16
In reply to Re: giving it a try, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 0:41:31
> > Well, Dr.Bob, after jane d's implicit suggestion that I was not being constructive, I started a new thread on rounded approaches to heal or deal with depression on PSB. I'll see how that goes and perhpas make constructive suggestions depending on results. I have the impression that PSB is more social than anything else and that serious discussions cannot be held there. I may be wrong. So I decided to give it a try.
> >
> > sid
>
> I was wrong, you're not so stubborn after all! :-)Thanks... I think? :-)
> So far so good with that thread?Yes. Therapy and CBT don't leave people indifferent it seems. Some people don't like CBT at all, and that surprises me - my experience was fine with. My stubbornnes must have helped in not doing the embarrassing homeworks and having an overall rather good opinion of CBT.
> I do think others might also feel more "serious" discussions might not fit in at PSB. That's why I proposed splitting it up:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/2502.html
>
> BobYes, I did have such an idea too. I was thinking that if the new thread did not continue, then I would suggest another page for serious discussion and sharing of info on alternatives/complements to meds: psychotherapy, yoga, relaxation techniques, exercise, diet, herbal supplements, acupuncture, etc. It could be a good idea to split that from the social stuff including mutual support (e.g.: venting about something and asking advice to others).
- not-so-stubborn-sid
Posted by IsoM on January 31, 2002, at 1:36:50
In reply to Re: giving it a try, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 0:41:31
> > "...Aisles make the process more efficient, no matter what the goal is. Health food stores have aisles, too..."
Hoo. boy, Dr. Bob! You don't know health food stores - their aim is just like every other store - to make money. After all, I managed one for a time.
...................................> > "...how about a green icon saying 'Redirect' that stays & doesn't disappear on redirected posts? > > "...isn't it easier just to click on a link in the "redirect" post than to go to the other board and look for an icon?"
We don't have to look for an icon, it jumps out at the viewer. That's how I keep track of what posts I've read when I come back to Psycho-Babble each time. New messages have bright yellow icons saying 'New' beside them & I can scroll very quickly down the page & see them without even looking hard.
...........................................
> > "...Hmm, I think of it as something everyone's familiar with from email, but I think I'm wrong. Maybe I should add something to the FAQ about the > signs, previous posts, etc. Would anyone here like to volunteer to draft an explanation? Or knows of one online that I could just link to?"I don't mean to say I'm unfamiliar with forums, but I think a good idea would be the field (the message box) we type our reply in start empty & not contain the previous postings in it. Many people don't bother deleting the previous posts & therefore some new posts have as many as 4 or 5 previous posts all in their answer too.
If the message box started out empty, we could just copy & paste the comments we wanted to in it. Otherwise, I find myself scrolling down the other comments to find the fresh contents. Sound like a good idea? It would save space on the server or whatever it's stored on. And wouldn't need any drafting anything extra.
Posted by susan C on January 31, 2002, at 14:17:19
In reply to Another Idea? » Dr. Bob, posted by IsoM on January 31, 2002, at 1:36:50
(these are not in any particular order)
1. I support the idea of a blank message screen. I was actually surprised, initially, to see the previous message here, and at a quandry as to whether or not to post my message first or following...and it would save space if i understand what you are saying about 'servers'.2. Having worked in the educational, non profit, profit and if i may make so bold a statement as entreprenural world...every business, every organization, no matter what 'kind' has to operate at a net "gain" providing for the future, etc, etc, ...other than, like the governemnt, you are taxing and providing 'necessary' services, like energy...oh, lets not go there....
3. The search for information comes with it IMHO a requisit need for organization. Profit making and ease of discovery are not necessarily the same, but ease of discovery is important to education.
mouse behind the lecturn
Posted by IsoM on January 31, 2002, at 15:17:39
In reply to Re: Another Idea?, posted by susan C on January 31, 2002, at 14:17:19
See Susan? I have a mental picture of a tiny mouse scimmering up the podium, grasping the front edge in her tiny paws & peering at a large crowd, blinking in amazement at all the people.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 19:03:27
In reply to Another Idea? » Dr. Bob, posted by IsoM on January 31, 2002, at 1:36:50
> > > "...how about a green icon saying 'Redirect' that stays & doesn't disappear on redirected posts?
> >
> > "...isn't it easier just to click on a link in the "redirect" post than to go to the other board and look for an icon?"
>
> We don't have to look for an icon, it jumps out at the viewer.True enough. There are also technical issues with another icon... The new-post ones are generated based on the current date and a cookie, I'm not sure how I'd get a redirect one in there...
> I don't mean to say I'm unfamiliar with forums, but I think a good idea would be the field (the message box) we type our reply in start empty & not contain the previous postings in it. Many people don't bother deleting the previous posts & therefore some new posts have as many as 4 or 5 previous posts all in their answer too.
>
> If the message box started out empty, we could just copy & paste the comments we wanted to in it. Sound like a good idea? It would save space on the server or whatever it's stored on.The original idea was to try to make it as easy for people as possible; I thought it would be easier to delete a copy of the previous post if you didn't want it than to copy and paste one if you did.
But now I have a better (IMO) idea: offer a button for each option, and have the default be no copy. It would, however, mean an extra step:
1. Select the option and click "post follow-up" (the new step).
2. Enter your message and click "submit".
3. Review your message and click "confirm".OK? And I think I could do it in a way that would save the space on the server, too...
Bob
Posted by IsoM on February 1, 2002, at 2:21:54
In reply to Re: Another Idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 19:03:27
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 1, 2002, at 13:38:12
In reply to Re: Another Idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 19:03:27
"The new-post ones are generated based on the current date and a cookie, I'm not sure how I'd get a redirect one in there..."
a year ago I could have told you exactly how to do this, but the meds have taken my brain away.
I'm sure someone else here could help, though, if it's something you want to do.
- KK
Posted by kiddo on February 1, 2002, at 16:06:39
In reply to Re: Another Idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 19:03:27
> True enough. There are also technical issues with another icon... The new-post ones are generated based on the current date and a cookie, I'm not sure how I'd get a redirect one in there...
>Could you not add an if/else statement into your current script that would automatically add a redirect icon based on certain conditions? (I'm not familiar with Perl, my area is Java)
> The original idea was to try to make it as easy for people as possible; I thought it would be easier to delete a copy of the previous post if you didn't want it than to copy and paste one if you did.
>
>
> Bob
Could you add a 'quote member' feature?
Kiddo
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 18:38:51
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon » Dr. Bob, posted by kiddo on February 1, 2002, at 16:06:39
> > The new-post ones are generated based on the current date and a cookie, I'm not sure how I'd get a redirect one in there...
>
> Could you not add an if/else statement into your current script that would automatically add a redirect icon based on certain conditions? (I'm not familiar with Perl, my area is Java)The new-post icon business is in Javascript, so maybe that's close? Do a "view source" and take a look if you want. The question would be, what conditions?
> Could you add a 'quote member' feature?
Which would do what, could you elaborate a little? :-)
Bob
Posted by kiddo on February 1, 2002, at 19:41:21
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon, posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 18:38:51
> > Could you not add an if/else statement into your current script that would automatically add a redirect icon based on certain conditions? (I'm not familiar with Perl, my area is Java)
>
> The new-post icon business is in Javascript, so maybe that's close? Do a "view source" and take a look if you want. The question would be, what conditions?
>Yep, real close...For instance, if a different radio button is selected (initiating a redirect), then an icon would be added. This way it wouldn't be dependent upon a cookie...thinking out loud, trying to get what I'm thinking onto the screen.
> > Could you add a 'quote member' feature?
>
> Which would do what, could you elaborate a little? :-)
>
> Bob
Someone asking to say MORE??? Absolutely...well, it's basically the same thing you already said ;-). It's a feature that allows you to "Quote" a specific person. Basically adds the text of the quoted person, but highlights it so that it's easier to determine who's saying what, or perhaps you could use color-coding; when a response is made a different color is used...May not work real well for long posts though.Kiddo
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 13:38:11
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon » Dr. Bob, posted by kiddo on February 1, 2002, at 19:41:21
> > > Could you not add an if/else statement into your current script that would automatically add a redirect icon based on certain conditions?
>
> For instance, if a different radio button is selected (initiating a redirect), then an icon would be added...Ah, you're thinking I would designate a post as a redirect post when I submitted it, so it would get an icon? Right now, you know, I just put "redirect" in the subject line, otherwise it's like any other post.
That would mean creating a separate category of post and getting into the guts of the posting process...
The new-post icon is different, of course, you don't designate a post a new post when you submit it, it's just added when the page is displayed...
BTW, I've seen other boards where there are lots of different categories of posts, each with its own icon. Questions get a question mark icon, suggestions get a light bulb icon, etc. Any thoughts?
> > > Could you add a 'quote member' feature?
>
> it's basically the same thing you already said ;-). It's a feature that allows you to "Quote" a specific person. Basically adds the text of the quoted person, but highlights it so that it's easier to determine who's saying what, or perhaps you could use color-coding; when a response is made a different color is used...May not work real well for long posts though.Hmm, the issue is who said what? You're right, that can be hard to figure out... Colors might be fun, but might be tricky, too. They can make text hard to read, some people have visual impairments, it might be hard to get the HTML to work with cutting and pasting...
Would it help to be more like email programs and have the "in reply to" line in the text of the post, rather than at the top? That way, it could be quoted, too...
Bob
Posted by kiddo on February 3, 2002, at 13:56:54
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon, posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 13:38:11
> > Ah, you're thinking I would designate a post as a redirect post when I submitted it, so it would get an icon? Right now, you know, I just put "redirect" in the subject line, otherwise it's like any other post.
>Hmmm, I thought you 'redirected' like everyone else....How DO you redirected one?
> That would mean creating a separate category of post and getting into the guts of the posting process...
>Why would you need to create a new category? All you'd need to do (I think) is put it at the beginning of your redirect page.
> The new-post icon is different, of course, you don't designate a post a new post when you submit it, it's just added when the page is displayed...
>But those are dependent upon cookies right? You could use a javascript cookie I guess...With the weather here, I haven't had a chance to look at your code.
> BTW, I've seen other boards where there are lots of different categories of posts, each with its own icon. Questions get a question mark icon, suggestions get a light bulb icon, etc. Any thoughts?
>Yeah, those could be added as well. You could make it an option, shouldn't be too hard to add. I'll compare our codes when I have the chance..Mine is set up that way too. I'm not sure how much you know about writing code and in what language :-)
> Hmm, the issue is who said what? You're right, that can be hard to figure out... Colors might be fun, but might be tricky, too. They can make text hard to read, some people have visual impairments, it might be hard to get the HTML to work with cutting and pasting...
>
Again, on my board it's surrounded by a box, and I believe has the quoted persons name, I'm not sure though....For instance, if it's surrounded by blue, with white background and black text and the authors name, it should be work.I'm sure there's something that can be figured out, I'm just trying to work it out as I type, and right now I'm swamped with things to do...it'll settle down in a few days though
> Would it help to be more like email programs and have the "in reply to" line in the text of the post, rather than at the top? That way, it could be quoted, too...
>
> Bob
That may work, I'm not real sure I understand at the moment...Kiddo
Posted by jane d on February 4, 2002, at 15:01:25
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon, posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 13:38:11
> Ah, you're thinking I would designate a post as a redirect post when I submitted it, so it would get an icon? Right now, you know, I just put "redirect" in the subject line, otherwise it's like any other post.
I don't really think a separate redirect icon is necessary. On the new page it shows up as a new post anyway. Anyone following the thread on the old page probably knew it would get redirected as soon as you saw it anyway. It's usually pretty predictable. As soon as I see your name on a post at the bottome of the thread I know it has been redirected without reading the message.
> BTW, I've seen other boards where there are lots of different categories of posts, each with its own icon. Questions get a question mark icon, suggestions get a light bulb icon, etc. Any thoughts?
I'd like to get one vote against icons down on the record right away. I've always found pages like that visually annoying. I end up having to put mental effort into blocking out the icons. Furthermore, it makes me feel as though I as back in kindergarten with little pictures taped to all the shelves to show you what goes where. What about continuing to indicate questions with a (non graphical, typed) question mark and the words 'What' or 'Why'? The word 'Suggestion' in a title is quite clear. Apart from asthetics, I have old hardware and an old fashioned dial up modem and therefore I'm against anything that slows down the pages loading. This is a problem for me with most of the other boards I've seen.
For quoting previous posts you could, of course, go with the low tech approach. Instead of putting in menu options for quoting or not you just add a pointer to your FAQ with some basic cut and paste instructions. No programming for you to do, no distracting colors for readers, no endless follow up's on admin about the colors. Of course people would need to add their own quotation marks. That suggestion could be in the FAQ too if need be. This would cut the confusion of who said what in the quotes by the simple method of discouraging the quotes in the first place.
The single biggest obstacle to effectively editing posts for me is the small size of the posting window. For long posts I usually move the contents to a notepad file and move it back when I'm done. Perhaps a how to on this as well? There must be a Mac equivalent since we all know Macs and Mac users are superior :-)
Jane
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2002, at 19:39:49
In reply to Re: Redirect Icon, Icons in general, quoting, posted by jane d on February 4, 2002, at 15:01:25
> I have old hardware and an old fashioned dial up modem...
>
> The single biggest obstacle to effectively editing posts for me is the small size of the posting window. For long posts I usually move the contents to a notepad file and move it back when I'm done. Perhaps a how to on this as well? There must be a Mac equivalent since we all know Macs and Mac users are superior :-)My Mac equivalent is Word. :-)
I could made the window bigger, it's just a pain if it's wider than your browser window, since then you have to scroll horizontally all the time, and it's hard to know how wide your browser window is. Especially if you have an old monitor. :-)
BTW, something else I've thought about is making the "look" of the site more customizable. It seems like it should be pretty easy with cookies, but I haven't seen anyone else do that, so maybe I'm missing something. Anyway, then you could just choose how big you wanted the window yourself. And what the color the background was, etc...
Bob
Posted by trouble on February 10, 2002, at 16:09:47
In reply to Re: separating discussions » sid, posted by Krazy Kat on January 27, 2002, at 15:51:14
KK-
Egos-that's it exactly.
Imagine what the poor psychiatrist goes thru when 15 year olds swagger into the office spewing neurotransmitter jive!? My own pdoc, who we all know is deeply megalomaniac-ish touched my sympathy the other day when he snarled "you come in here and order medications like you're reading off a menu."
"It's not my fault I'm a member of the psychopharmacological generation," I spat back.
But gee whiz. My knowledge must be a spit in his ocean, and the more I learn the more I come to see that!trouble
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2002, at 22:04:50
In reply to Re: Another Idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 31, 2002, at 19:03:27
> > I don't mean to say I'm unfamiliar with forums, but I think a good idea would be the field (the message box) we type our reply in start empty & not contain the previous postings in it.
> >
> > It would save space on the server or whatever it's stored on.
>
> The original idea was to try to make it as easy for people as possible...
>
> But now I have a better (IMO) idea: offer a button for each option, and have the default be no copy. It would, however, mean an extra step:
>
> 1. Select the option and click "[go to form]" (the new step).
> 2. Enter your message and click "[submit your post]".
> 3. Review your message and click "[confirm your post]".Well, here it is. I'm *really* sorry I had to turn off posting for so long, I should've planned this better. Anyway, let me know if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions. Especially if something doesn't work!
Bob
PS: This does save space on the server, 140 MB! :-)
Posted by sid on February 18, 2002, at 0:28:08
In reply to Re: the message box we type our reply in, posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2002, at 22:04:50
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2004, at 20:58:59
In reply to Re: posting window, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2002, at 19:39:49
> > The single biggest obstacle to effectively editing posts for me is the small size of the posting window. For long posts I usually move the contents to a notepad file and move it back when I'm done.
>
> I could make the window bigger, it's just a pain if it's wider than your browser window, since then you have to scroll horizontally all the time... It seems like it should be pretty easy with cookies, but I haven't seen anyone else do thatWell, now I have:
http://stein.cshl.org/WWW/software/CGI/examples/customize.cgi
> Anyway, then you could just choose how big you wanted the window yourself.
Sorry it took a while to get to this, but better late than never? Give this a try:
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/settings.pl
FWIW, I ended up not doing it with a new cookie, since then you would need to set it on each computer you used. But it does require the name and password cookies, since that's the only way the server can tell who you are when you first go to the posting form...
Bob
Posted by spoc on June 1, 2004, at 2:40:02
In reply to Re: posting window, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2004, at 20:58:59
> Sorry it took a while to get to this, but better late than never? Give this a try:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/settings.pl
>
> Bob
><<<<<< Looks like it will help a lot. A setting of about 35 to 40 columns across seems like it will be right for me (although I'm not in "Framed" at the moment). I have Win 98 and with that I guess I couldn't adjust pixels to accomplish the same thing, the available setting range doesn't jibe.
Also set my rows to about 20, which is still kidding myself considering my typical post! But rows weren't as much of an annoyance as the cut-off columns were.
Thanks!
Posted by Noa on June 2, 2004, at 19:27:49
In reply to Re: posting window, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2004, at 20:58:59
Thanks--I like this feature!
This is the end of the thread.
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