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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2011, at 17:14:00
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » Phillipa, posted by hyperfocus on September 2, 2011, at 14:10:13
Thank you for putting this all together.
I find it so interesting that compounds developed for certain afflictions may have amazing benefits for a different ailment. Like ssri's becoming first line treatment from chronic pain management.
This is also having me rethink ambien. It has been drummed into me, literally, that ambien, as a 'Z' drug is bad bad bad.
Hmmm. It's interesting.
Thanks HP!
Posted by bleauberry on September 2, 2011, at 17:18:01
In reply to Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by hyperfocus on September 2, 2011, at 13:05:21
Cool stuff. I've taken some heat over the years at this website for holding opinions that are sometimes not backed by 'clinical research'. But the reason is exactly because of these kinds of stories....there is so much we don't know....I believe it is a mistake to 'compartmentalize' our thinking. In this case, who in their right minds would think a sleeping pill could possibly wake someone up from vegetation?. No, common thinking would say to try Ritalin or Adderall instead, right?
Anyway, cool. I think the same type of accidental discoveries can be made for all of us....if we just try stuff....sometimes stuff that doesn't make sense on paper. For the new psychiatric patient, no, but for those of us who have been battling for 10 or 20 years or a lifetime, yeah, it makes perfect sense to think outside the box, because the box has obviously not had the answers we thought it did.
It's nice to be able to explain things. In this case, how did Ambien work? Well, it would be nice to know. We don't. It doesn't matter. Whether we know or not has no impact on whether it actually works or not. Chinese medicine is an example. We Amercans tend not to use those things because we require a scientific understanding. Chinese take a different approach and stick with things that have worked predictably for 2000 years whether they can explain it or not doesn't matter.
Giving a pill of Ambien to everyone in the world who is in a coma is of near zero risk, so I say do it. If it works for only 1% of them, that's a lot of reborn people!
Posted by morgan miller on September 2, 2011, at 18:34:40
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by bleauberry on September 2, 2011, at 17:18:01
BB, it does matter how Ambien works. If we understand how it works, then scientists may be able to come up with an even better drug for brain damaged patients in a semi-vegitative state.
Posted by morgan miller on September 2, 2011, at 18:37:40
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » hyperfocus, posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2011, at 17:14:00
I personally know 2 people that full blown hallucinate on Ambien.
Posted by morgan miller on September 2, 2011, at 18:38:21
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » hyperfocus, posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2011, at 17:14:00
I personally know 2 people that full blown hallucinate on Ambien.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2011, at 18:51:02
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by morgan miller on September 2, 2011, at 18:38:21
Really? Wow. I hadn't heard that. Just the sleep activities like driving, etc. And memory loss.
I haven't had those. (Well, or I wouldn't use it.)
They hallucinate at prescribed doses?
I just figure it beats a benzo.....
Posted by bleauberry on September 3, 2011, at 7:17:54
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » bleauberry, posted by morgan miller on September 2, 2011, at 18:34:40
> BB, it does matter how Ambien works. If we understand how it works, then scientists may be able to come up with an even better drug for brain damaged patients in a semi-vegitative state.
Well yes, of course that is true. But what I am trying to say is, we don't need to know right now. We don't need to invent some drug based on the same mechanism. We already have something that works pretty good. Run with it. it would be nice to know how it works, but getting the patient better right now is what really matters. Explaining it all, in my opinion, takes a back seat. We can do that later after a bunch of people have been improved. If we wait till we know more, those people are going to be dead. They deserve productive lives now, right now. So who cares how a pill works....if it works give them the friggin pill.
Posted by bleauberry on September 3, 2011, at 7:22:48
In reply to Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by hyperfocus on September 2, 2011, at 13:05:21
Ambien was the first sleep med I ever tried many years ago. It did the weirdest thing with me. it pepped me up fairly soon after first putting me to sleep. A couple hours of sleep and then wide awake, more awake than I would have been with the normal insomnia I was dealing with. I could never understand it being called a sleeping pill because with me it was more like a combination sleeping pill/stimulant, where the sleeping pill part of it worked first and only for a short time and then the stimulant part kicked in. The stimulant part of it was much more pronounced, to me, than any sedation it might have had.
Posted by morgan miller on September 3, 2011, at 9:16:15
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » morgan miller, posted by bleauberry on September 3, 2011, at 7:17:54
> > BB, it does matter how Ambien works. If we understand how it works, then scientists may be able to come up with an even better drug for brain damaged patients in a semi-vegitative state.
>
> Well yes, of course that is true. But what I am trying to say is, we don't need to know right now. We don't need to invent some drug based on the same mechanism. We already have something that works pretty good. Run with it. it would be nice to know how it works, but getting the patient better right now is what really matters. Explaining it all, in my opinion, takes a back seat. We can do that later after a bunch of people have been improved. If we wait till we know more, those people are going to be dead. They deserve productive lives now, right now. So who cares how a pill works....if it works give them the friggin pill.
>I understand, and I agree. But you know they're trying to figure out how it works already. And hopefully one day, there will be something even better than Ambien, something that will work on more brain damaged victims. I'm sure Ambien's success in these patients has much to, do with the specific way someone's brain has been damaged, and what is still accessible as far as potential function is concerned. Anyway, whatever happens, it is very cool that there is something like Ambien that works in this way.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 3, 2011, at 9:18:26
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on September 2, 2011, at 18:51:02
Yep, they hallucinate at regular dosese. It is pretty wild, but not that uncommon.
Posted by morgan miller on September 3, 2011, at 9:21:07
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by bleauberry on September 3, 2011, at 7:22:48
Yeah it's a pretty wild drug. I have reacted similarly but not to the same degree as you BB.
There are also people that take Ambien before sex to try to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 13:11:40
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » bleauberry, posted by morgan miller on September 3, 2011, at 9:21:07
> Yeah it's a pretty wild drug. I have reacted similarly but not to the same degree as you BB.
>
> There are also people that take Ambien before sex to try to achieve a more pleasurable experience.Wow. Had I known this when younger.....
It probably wasn't around then :-)
Posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 18:45:28
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » bleauberry, posted by morgan miller on September 3, 2011, at 9:21:07
>There are also people that take Ambien before sex to try to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
10,900,000 results when you google that.
But if you google something out of the question like 'Can watching Saturn cure haemmorhoids?' you get lots of results too.
Down to 561,000.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 19:25:05
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 18:45:28
> >There are also people that take Ambien before sex to try to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
>
> 10,900,000 results when you google that.
>
> But if you google something out of the question like 'Can watching Saturn cure haemmorhoids?' you get lots of results too.
>
> Down to 561,000.Googling that question amazes me more than the halucinations and enhanced sex.
Posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 21:25:53
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 19:25:05
It might work.
Why be negative? :)
Posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 21:29:05
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 19:25:05
I mean the Sauturn thing might work.
Ambien worked for Tiger.
I haven't read the Daily Mail.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 21:47:02
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 19:25:05
Was I negative? I thought I was brought to the place of amazement :-)
What do you think Pluto might help? Or have all healing abilities been revoked by demotion?
Posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 21:48:35
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 21:29:05
I don't feel up to putting tiger woods and sex mistress in the same sentence.
Mistress is such a quaint term, isn't it?
Posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 21:51:28
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 21:25:53
HP, this thread has drifted off a bit....
Posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 23:09:51
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on September 3, 2011, at 21:47:02
> Or have all healing abilities been revoked by demotion?
Maybe. Another version of I' waiting for the day my doctors can't help me'.
Even doing all the right things it can be a bit slow.
I remember reading this article in the Guardian a while ago now. This window of relief.
Posted by morgan miller on September 4, 2011, at 11:15:59
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 18:45:28
Sigi, you're funny dude
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 4, 2011, at 13:52:07
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by sigismund on September 3, 2011, at 18:45:28
>>There are also people that take Ambien before sex to try to achieve a more pleasurable experience.
....sure but they might not remember it afterwards :)
Posted by sigismund on September 4, 2011, at 14:39:32
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » sigismund, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 4, 2011, at 13:52:07
What's a nice young man like you doing in a place like this?
It would never have occurred to me to use Ambien like this, but now that I am better informed..............
Posted by Phillipa on September 4, 2011, at 19:44:15
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage » ed_uk2010, posted by sigismund on September 4, 2011, at 14:39:32
Sigi well did you? PJ
Posted by former poster on September 5, 2011, at 12:30:43
In reply to Re: Zolpidem (Ambien) 'miraculous' for brain-damage, posted by bleauberry on September 3, 2011, at 7:22:48
>> "It did the weirdest thing with me. it pepped me up fairly soon after first putting me to sleep. A couple hours of sleep and then wide awake, more awake than I would have been with the normal insomnia I was dealing with."<<
Bleauberry, I have the exact same reaction to Ambien as you! Sometimes it went strait into "pepped me up" mode without any desire to sleep. Does it mean we have some brain damage?
I decided to quit taking it because of the insomnia.
This is the end of the thread.
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