![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
For those who don't know my history since I haven't posted here in a while, but have been popping in and out for years, I have bipolar disorder II (possibly I given the nature and frequency of my manic episodes over the past year or so), really severe OCD (numerous checking and repetitive physical behaviors complicated by more seriously inhibiting constant blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death/injury to loved ones (with associated warding rituals). I also have a bad cutting problem (not just scratching or superficial cuts--rather, very deep wounding warranting stitches if I went to my GP as requested by my psydoc) that is increasingly associated with extreme self-hatred.
To combat these problems, I underwent surgery for implantation of a Vagus Nerve Stimulator (basically a pacemaker implanted in the chest with a wire that runs up through the neck to wrap around the vagus nerve) and have had ECT (what a miserable experience).
Unfortunately, I continue to deteriorate despite these treatments, 4 years of regular CBT therapy, and having taken the following meds--all at a therapeutic level:
Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Zoloft, Cymbalta, Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Remeron, Tofranil, Clomipramine, Serzone (my first med), Symbyax, Saphris, Abilify, Geodon, Trazadone, Topamax, Doxepin, Lamictal, Depakote, Nardil (pills and patch), Parnate, Lithium, Deplin, Seroquel, Risperidone, Zyprexa, Klon, Xanax, Valium, Cytomel, and now Fanapt.
I just don't know if it's worth the SEs and the ever-more-expensive co-pays, and the disappointing results anymore. I'm slated to go to Massachusetts General for a consult regarding the OCD, and now TMS has been recommended to me.
My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2010, at 7:07:48
In reply to When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
> My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.
I guess it depends on what alternative treatments you have access to and how severe your condition is when untreated. It is a very personal decision.
Low-dose lithium combined with Lamictal or Trileptal along with a MAOI might be worth looking into. I have to imagine that there are some combinations that you have yet to explore. Which drugs have you had any kind of positive response to?
- Scott
Posted by Frustratedmama on March 26, 2010, at 9:06:37
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » greywolf, posted by SLS on March 26, 2010, at 7:07:48
I have been there and did give up...it was a MISTAKE in my case....got worse and then it was even harder to treat afterwards....Please don't give up if you can't function without medication that is needed for you to have an acceptable quality of life (I say acceptable because exceptional may be out of reach to some of us here- although I would like to think that this is possible someday for all of us). Anyway, Keep trying....go for several consultations and combinations of medications....make sure to list ALL of your symptoms and side effects on the different medications and off as it helps the doctor to know what is going on in your body. I have been to sooooo many doctors and have tried an even more extensive list than yours (over the last 20 years) and sometime I have had no relief or even short temporary releif but man going off the meds made me so dysfuntional that I will never go there again.....Please keep searching if you need help.....there may be at least a little bit of releif out there and a little is better than none.....Which meds of the list you typed were the most helpful and which were the least....If you could rate them in order it might help your pdoc and/or doctors know what to try and what combinations.....
Good Luck!
FM
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2010, at 10:46:24
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by Frustratedmama on March 26, 2010, at 9:06:37
Personally I feel it's a personal decision. At least that is what my pdoc said. Seems the older I get you then add in the physical problems. I have no answer as was hoping the VNS would work well for you. Phillipa
Posted by Bob on March 26, 2010, at 17:24:50
In reply to When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
> For those who don't know my history since I haven't posted here in a while, but have been popping in and out for years, I have bipolar disorder II (possibly I given the nature and frequency of my manic episodes over the past year or so), really severe OCD (numerous checking and repetitive physical behaviors complicated by more seriously inhibiting constant blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death/injury to loved ones (with associated warding rituals). I also have a bad cutting problem (not just scratching or superficial cuts--rather, very deep wounding warranting stitches if I went to my GP as requested by my psydoc) that is increasingly associated with extreme self-hatred.
>
> To combat these problems, I underwent surgery for implantation of a Vagus Nerve Stimulator (basically a pacemaker implanted in the chest with a wire that runs up through the neck to wrap around the vagus nerve) and have had ECT (what a miserable experience).
>
> Unfortunately, I continue to deteriorate despite these treatments, 4 years of regular CBT therapy, and having taken the following meds--all at a therapeutic level:
>
> Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Zoloft, Cymbalta, Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Remeron, Tofranil, Clomipramine, Serzone (my first med), Symbyax, Saphris, Abilify, Geodon, Trazadone, Topamax, Doxepin, Lamictal, Depakote, Nardil (pills and patch), Parnate, Lithium, Deplin, Seroquel, Risperidone, Zyprexa, Klon, Xanax, Valium, Cytomel, and now Fanapt.
>
> I just don't know if it's worth the SEs and the ever-more-expensive co-pays, and the disappointing results anymore. I'm slated to go to Massachusetts General for a consult regarding the OCD, and now TMS has been recommended to me.
>
> My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.
Greywolf -Did the VNS ever have any noticeable effect whatsoever either bad or good? Are you still being stimulated?
Bob
Posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 19:19:17
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » greywolf, posted by Bob on March 26, 2010, at 17:24:50
I had the implant surgery in October 2008. I am at the target stimulation level in terms of strength of stimulation. At the next visit, the frequency of the stimulations will be increased for the first time.
I have thought hard about whether I've noticed any change due to the VNS stimulator. Recognizing that I've got a lot going on that can interfere with identifying the effects of a single type of therapy, I have concluded that I have not experienced a noticeable benefit from VNS. However, I am advised that it is still early in the process of VNS therapy, and that increasing the number of stimulations at full strength is the expected next step.
All I know is that I will be permanently hoarse now.
Greywolf
> > For those who don't know my history since I haven't posted here in a while, but have been popping in and out for years, I have bipolar disorder II (possibly I given the nature and frequency of my manic episodes over the past year or so), really severe OCD (numerous checking and repetitive physical behaviors complicated by more seriously inhibiting constant blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death/injury to loved ones (with associated warding rituals). I also have a bad cutting problem (not just scratching or superficial cuts--rather, very deep wounding warranting stitches if I went to my GP as requested by my psydoc) that is increasingly associated with extreme self-hatred.
> >
> > To combat these problems, I underwent surgery for implantation of a Vagus Nerve Stimulator (basically a pacemaker implanted in the chest with a wire that runs up through the neck to wrap around the vagus nerve) and have had ECT (what a miserable experience).
> >
> > Unfortunately, I continue to deteriorate despite these treatments, 4 years of regular CBT therapy, and having taken the following meds--all at a therapeutic level:
> >
> > Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Zoloft, Cymbalta, Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Remeron, Tofranil, Clomipramine, Serzone (my first med), Symbyax, Saphris, Abilify, Geodon, Trazadone, Topamax, Doxepin, Lamictal, Depakote, Nardil (pills and patch), Parnate, Lithium, Deplin, Seroquel, Risperidone, Zyprexa, Klon, Xanax, Valium, Cytomel, and now Fanapt.
> >
> > I just don't know if it's worth the SEs and the ever-more-expensive co-pays, and the disappointing results anymore. I'm slated to go to Massachusetts General for a consult regarding the OCD, and now TMS has been recommended to me.
> >
> > My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.
>
>
>
>
> Greywolf -
>
> Did the VNS ever have any noticeable effect whatsoever either bad or good? Are you still being stimulated?
>
> Bob
Posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 19:28:28
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » greywolf, posted by SLS on March 26, 2010, at 7:07:48
I have responded well to both Nardil and Parnate, though Nardil eventually pooped out. Parnate has offered benefits for a longer period of time, but it, too, is starting to taper off. Overall, Parnate has been more effective.
The SSRIs, SNRIs, NDRIs, have all been disasters. The atypicals, with the exception of Abilify, have all been problematic due to sedation. I won't say they can't be effective, but I would have to stop working to take them at the level necessary to suppress the manic phase.
I had no problem at all with lithium or Lamictal or Depakote. I've been on 2 courses of lithium, but that was years ago with another psydoc.
Greywolf
> > My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.
>
> I guess it depends on what alternative treatments you have access to and how severe your condition is when untreated. It is a very personal decision.
>
> Low-dose lithium combined with Lamictal or Trileptal along with a MAOI might be worth looking into. I have to imagine that there are some combinations that you have yet to explore. Which drugs have you had any kind of positive response to?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 19:32:57
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by Frustratedmama on March 26, 2010, at 9:06:37
Thank you for the encouragement. I do not want to give up, and I probably won't. But like you have experienced, it's been 2 decades of this stuff and I'm only getting worse.
Greywolf
> I have been there and did give up...it was a MISTAKE in my case....got worse and then it was even harder to treat afterwards....Please don't give up if you can't function without medication that is needed for you to have an acceptable quality of life (I say acceptable because exceptional may be out of reach to some of us here- although I would like to think that this is possible someday for all of us). Anyway, Keep trying....go for several consultations and combinations of medications....make sure to list ALL of your symptoms and side effects on the different medications and off as it helps the doctor to know what is going on in your body. I have been to sooooo many doctors and have tried an even more extensive list than yours (over the last 20 years) and sometime I have had no relief or even short temporary releif but man going off the meds made me so dysfuntional that I will never go there again.....Please keep searching if you need help.....there may be at least a little bit of releif out there and a little is better than none.....Which meds of the list you typed were the most helpful and which were the least....If you could rate them in order it might help your pdoc and/or doctors know what to try and what combinations.....
> Good Luck!
> FM
Posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 19:35:26
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2010, at 10:46:24
Thanks for your good thoughts, Phillipa. Who knows about the VNS. Maybe it will kick in one of these days.
Greywolf
> Personally I feel it's a personal decision. At least that is what my pdoc said. Seems the older I get you then add in the physical problems. I have no answer as was hoping the VNS would work well for you. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2010, at 18:57:12
In reply to When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
Opinion...
There's something else going on. Staying within the psychiatric toolbox at this point does not make logical sense. There are enough glaring clues to show there is more going on here than a neurotransmitter deficiency or receptor dysfunction or anything like that. We're talking inflammation (where from?0, infection (yeast or lyme or other), and a few other possibilities.
From my own experience, I have had a couple things that created the worst depression, or OCD, or paranoia, or anxiety, that no drug could touch. They looked for all the world like classic textbook psychiatric conditions. But they weren't. One was the toxins of candida overwhelming me. The other was the toxins of lyme overwhelming me. The other was the death toxins of killing them. It feels and looks exactly like all the textbook disorders we try to treat, but it isn't them. And thus, no amount of the wrong drug (psychiatric) or electricity (ECT) or any other brain manipulation will do a thing against the presence of those toxins.
Just a thought. I speak from personal experience on this and for hundreds of others with the same.
No way to prove it, and could be wrong, but my strong hunch is, there is something else going on that you do not suspect.
I wish I had some psych suggestions for you. In the midst of the infections that were creating a scenario that looked exactly like the stuff psychiatrists treat, the only three meds I found helpful rather than hurtful were:
Savella (Milnacipran)
Parnate
Amisulpride
Posted by greywolf on March 28, 2010, at 7:01:14
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2010, at 18:57:12
Thanks, bleuberry.
We have gone the toxins/fungus route a couple times over the last 20 years. No such luck.
Because of the concern regarding the varieyt/number of meds I'm on at any given time, I regularly have full blood testing done. Right now it's to make sure there isnt' an artificial sugar elevation, and to keep watch on thyroid and liver functions. But we've looked for infections, toxins, etc., and have found nothing.
Considering that I present classic symptoms of a strong variety in the BP area and OCD, alternative causes are unlikely in any event. I'm out of the norm when it comes to self-injury, but that is an anxiety reaction to the terrible blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death to family and friends that occur over a 100 times each day, causing time-consuming an anxiety-creating ritual response behaviors.
Toxins and the like will not explain such circumstances.
But I'm glad they found an alternative explanation for you that has made your life better.
Greywolf.
> Opinion...
>
> There's something else going on. Staying within the psychiatric toolbox at this point does not make logical sense. There are enough glaring clues to show there is more going on here than a neurotransmitter deficiency or receptor dysfunction or anything like that. We're talking inflammation (where from?0, infection (yeast or lyme or other), and a few other possibilities.
>
> From my own experience, I have had a couple things that created the worst depression, or OCD, or paranoia, or anxiety, that no drug could touch. They looked for all the world like classic textbook psychiatric conditions. But they weren't. One was the toxins of candida overwhelming me. The other was the toxins of lyme overwhelming me. The other was the death toxins of killing them. It feels and looks exactly like all the textbook disorders we try to treat, but it isn't them. And thus, no amount of the wrong drug (psychiatric) or electricity (ECT) or any other brain manipulation will do a thing against the presence of those toxins.
>
> Just a thought. I speak from personal experience on this and for hundreds of others with the same.
>
> No way to prove it, and could be wrong, but my strong hunch is, there is something else going on that you do not suspect.
>
> I wish I had some psych suggestions for you. In the midst of the infections that were creating a scenario that looked exactly like the stuff psychiatrists treat, the only three meds I found helpful rather than hurtful were:
> Savella (Milnacipran)
> Parnate
> Amisulpride
Posted by bleauberry on March 28, 2010, at 7:52:54
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » bleauberry, posted by greywolf on March 28, 2010, at 7:01:14
It all sounds interesting. And unfortunately, very saddening to see a fellow human suffer as you do.
I would be curious to know a couple things:
1. How exactly were you tested for infections?
2. Which infections?
3. Lab tests or challenge tests?
4. What was the procedure to test for toxins? DMSA urine challenge test? Random blood test?At the end of your post you said there is no way any of these things could cause the intensity of the symptoms you have. I am here to assure you they certainly can and do. We're talking extremely potent chemical secretions that are extremely disruptive and irritating to the nervous sytem, some of them more potent than manmade chemicals.
In terms of meds, I guess at this point we kind of have to look at things that have not been tried, or taking the things that provided maybe hints of improvement and combining them. Or thinking outside the box. For example someone here a couple months ago found significant relief from longstanding symptoms with Metaformin, a diabetic drug, even though he had no blood sugar/insulin issues at all. That represents a blind trial of a hunch, in the absence of any diagnostic lab reports to suggest it. Those kinds of blind trials by hunch are where treatment resistant successes are found. The norm protocols failed already.
There is a lot of physiological science, the body, and chemistry that we just don't know. What we do know is a fraction of what we don't know. What we assume to be fact is actually theory. What we assume to be fact and is truly fact is only 1/10th of the whole picture, the rest we haven't even scratched the surface on yet.
So in cases like yours and most of us here, I personally believe it is warranted and necessary to do trials of out-of-the-box things.
Of course, the opposition to that would say "there is no proof Doxycycline, Diflucan, DMSA, or Metaformin (just a few examples) have any purpose in psychiatry". Does lack of research equal lack of clinical efficacy? No. It's been proved all over the world including here, and in almost every case was by accident or by blind trial.
So to one doctor who tells me I don't have yeast, that issue is overblown on the web, there is no science and no test for it, I say, "What is the harm or risk in giving me a month of Diflucan to see what happens"? The answer is, there is hardly any risk, only possible benefits and diagnostic clues. They of course are reluctant to do that because they would have to lie to insurance company or to a lawyer if there was a lawsuit explaining why they gave Diflucan to someone haphazardly without a yeast diagnosis (no, there isn't a diaper rash or vaginal discharge or white tongue). They are reluctant or hesitant because it doesn't fit the model they were taught in school. None of those things in any way diminish the real potential clinical efficacy of whatever that out-of-the-box blind trial is.
Savella, Parnate, Savella+Risperdal, Savella+Zyprexa, Amisulpride....these are the only things I have seen to be helpful in cases where it seemed to me there was something else going on.
I finally wanted to comment on the view that such things as infections or toxins as being alternative causes of psych symptoms. They are not. They are primary leading causes. They are only viewed as alternative by habits of mankind and assumed protocols. Which in 100 years will likely be shown to be archaic and primitive, entwined in arrogance and ignorance.
What, yeast can only live in the gut, or a rash, or a vagina? How about the brain? Any particular reason it can't thrive there? That question has silenced every doctor I've asked it.
> Thanks, bleuberry.
>
> We have gone the toxins/fungus route a couple times over the last 20 years. No such luck.
>
> Because of the concern regarding the varieyt/number of meds I'm on at any given time, I regularly have full blood testing done. Right now it's to make sure there isnt' an artificial sugar elevation, and to keep watch on thyroid and liver functions. But we've looked for infections, toxins, etc., and have found nothing.
>
> Considering that I present classic symptoms of a strong variety in the BP area and OCD, alternative causes are unlikely in any event. I'm out of the norm when it comes to self-injury, but that is an anxiety reaction to the terrible blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death to family and friends that occur over a 100 times each day, causing time-consuming an anxiety-creating ritual response behaviors.
>
> Toxins and the like will not explain such circumstances.
>
> But I'm glad they found an alternative explanation for you that has made your life better.
>
> Greywolf.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Opinion...
> >
> > There's something else going on. Staying within the psychiatric toolbox at this point does not make logical sense. There are enough glaring clues to show there is more going on here than a neurotransmitter deficiency or receptor dysfunction or anything like that. We're talking inflammation (where from?0, infection (yeast or lyme or other), and a few other possibilities.
> >
> > From my own experience, I have had a couple things that created the worst depression, or OCD, or paranoia, or anxiety, that no drug could touch. They looked for all the world like classic textbook psychiatric conditions. But they weren't. One was the toxins of candida overwhelming me. The other was the toxins of lyme overwhelming me. The other was the death toxins of killing them. It feels and looks exactly like all the textbook disorders we try to treat, but it isn't them. And thus, no amount of the wrong drug (psychiatric) or electricity (ECT) or any other brain manipulation will do a thing against the presence of those toxins.
> >
> > Just a thought. I speak from personal experience on this and for hundreds of others with the same.
> >
> > No way to prove it, and could be wrong, but my strong hunch is, there is something else going on that you do not suspect.
> >
> > I wish I had some psych suggestions for you. In the midst of the infections that were creating a scenario that looked exactly like the stuff psychiatrists treat, the only three meds I found helpful rather than hurtful were:
> > Savella (Milnacipran)
> > Parnate
> > Amisulpride
>
>
Posted by bulldog2 on March 28, 2010, at 18:23:27
In reply to When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
> For those who don't know my history since I haven't posted here in a while, but have been popping in and out for years, I have bipolar disorder II (possibly I given the nature and frequency of my manic episodes over the past year or so), really severe OCD (numerous checking and repetitive physical behaviors complicated by more seriously inhibiting constant blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death/injury to loved ones (with associated warding rituals). I also have a bad cutting problem (not just scratching or superficial cuts--rather, very deep wounding warranting stitches if I went to my GP as requested by my psydoc) that is increasingly associated with extreme self-hatred.
>
> To combat these problems, I underwent surgery for implantation of a Vagus Nerve Stimulator (basically a pacemaker implanted in the chest with a wire that runs up through the neck to wrap around the vagus nerve) and have had ECT (what a miserable experience).
>
> Unfortunately, I continue to deteriorate despite these treatments, 4 years of regular CBT therapy, and having taken the following meds--all at a therapeutic level:
>
> Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Zoloft, Cymbalta, Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Remeron, Tofranil, Clomipramine, Serzone (my first med), Symbyax, Saphris, Abilify, Geodon, Trazadone, Topamax, Doxepin, Lamictal, Depakote, Nardil (pills and patch), Parnate, Lithium, Deplin, Seroquel, Risperidone, Zyprexa, Klon, Xanax, Valium, Cytomel, and now Fanapt.
>
> I just don't know if it's worth the SEs and the ever-more-expensive co-pays, and the disappointing results anymore. I'm slated to go to Massachusetts General for a consult regarding the OCD, and now TMS has been recommended to me.
>
> My question is when do you stop? Maybe, how do you stop? When nothing's working very well after all of this, do you just go on to the next med variation they come up with while you're trying out your last one? Or do you just say, enough.Maybe never. If you are suffering from mental illness and keep like fighting on there's no reason to stop.
Posted by greywolf on March 29, 2010, at 20:28:49
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by bleauberry on March 28, 2010, at 7:52:54
A couple years ago I ended up with an infection of part of my heart. Not pneumonia or anything like that. During my hospital stay they tested me for everything they could think of because I also had an unusual degree of bronchial inflammation that did not respond to normal asthma medications. Plus, we're in tick territory and there was some thought about Lyme disease.
Probably didn't get tested for everything under the sun, but this is clearly heavily anxiety driven. When, on top of a manic phase, every day you experience hundreds of instances of blasphemous thoughts or indepently appearing thoughts concerning the deaths of your children, parents, and family (accompanied every time with vivid images of such deaths in all their variety), the cumulative effect is horrible.
Sometimes, usually towards the end of the day, I start shaking and crying before going into a full-blown panic attack. Often the thing that gives me the most immediate and effective release from the incredible build-up of self-hatred is mutilation. I try to avoid it, but some days I just need to attack myself as a means of seeking forgiveness for all the terrible thoughts that plague me throughout the day.
That type of stuff isn't fungus/toxin driven. It's a persistent and particularly difficult form of OCD that is difficult to cure. I'm going to Harvard next month to meet a psychologist who is well known for treating blasphemous thoughts and who was formerly a Catholic priest. Hopefully he'll be able to reach me with some techniques that will diminish the ridiculous effects of this confluence of anxiety-producing behaviors.
Greywolf
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2010, at 21:22:02
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » bleauberry, posted by greywolf on March 29, 2010, at 20:28:49
Greywolf feel so bad for you. May this psychologist help you. Love Phillipa
Posted by 49er on April 2, 2010, at 14:38:57
In reply to When is it time to give up on all the meds?, posted by greywolf on March 26, 2010, at 1:13:11
Greywolf,
I agree with the others who say it is a personal decision.
However, I think you answered the question when if I remember correctly, you said you were getting worse and not better. Isn't insanity doing the same repeatedly that isn't working and expecting a different result? I don't have it exactly right but I think you catch my drift.
I don't have bipolar but I came to the conclusion in 2006 that meds weren't the answer after suffering horrific side effects including a hearing loss and cognitive issues. I am now down to a low dose of 1 med after tapering off of what was initially a 4 med cocktail.
I have tapered very slowly. I am not going to lie and say it has been easy. But if I had tapered too fast, I am convinced I wouldn't have even succeeded in reducing the meds.
I feel like a normal human being. I know this sounds strange but I was so glad to be able to cry over an issue I had a right to be upset about. When it happened a year ago, I was too numb to feel anything.
You might want to check these sites out if you are serious about getting off meds:
http://theicarusproject.net/
http://alt-therapies4bipolar.info/If you do decide to get off of them, please taper slowly. I have usually tapered at 10% of current dose every 3 to 6 weeks. Your brain needs time to adjust to the neurochemical changes of having less drug in the body.
Usually (not always), folks who say that when they got off meds, their mental illness returned, tapered too quickly. Many times, withdrawal symptoms look like a return of the illness.
If you want to babble mail me, feel free to do so.
Posted by Katgirl on April 6, 2010, at 11:06:43
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » greywolf, posted by 49er on April 2, 2010, at 14:38:57
I gave up on the med trials when going through withdrawals to the drugs that didn't work were making me more suicidal and depressed. After living in agony for several years, I finally got rTMS and was a partial responder to that and my depression has slowly improved over the years (but not totally abated). My anxiety is still horrible and debilitating, however, and I keep my eyes on the new drugs coming down the pipeline. So, I haven't totally written of meds. . .just the ones that are currently available. My thoughts are with you!
This is the end of the thread.
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