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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on November 22, 2009, at 19:41:02
Occasionally I skip meals. I usually feel better when I keep myself a little on the hungry side, not starving, but just in my metabolic "zone".
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 22, 2009, at 21:17:34
In reply to Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 22, 2009, at 19:41:02
You need protein to maintain muscle mass and the heart and all your organs are muscle. Small 5 meals a day are the best. A hunk of cheese, nuts, etc. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on November 22, 2009, at 22:04:14
In reply to Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 22, 2009, at 19:41:02
I'm anorexic and I get a high from not eating. Is that what you mean?
Posted by linkadge on November 23, 2009, at 16:47:00
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » linkadge, posted by Maxime on November 22, 2009, at 22:04:14
>I'm anorexic and I get a high from not eating
Interesting. Can you elaborate?
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on November 23, 2009, at 18:14:53
In reply to Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 22, 2009, at 19:41:02
Fasting has always been claimed to be a good way to boost mood and health. Something about cleaning out the blood.
I suspect there may be several possible things involved.
One, if there is any kind of unsuspected yeast problem in the intestines, one will obviously feel better not eating. That's because as long as there is food in the intestines, some of the undigested molecules are getting through the intestinal lining directly into the bloodstream. It's a result of yeast's effects on changing the permeability of the lining. Results can be one or all of the following, varying in degree from minor to major, depending on the level of infection...brain fog, depression, fatigue, overwhelmed immune system.
Could be a blood sugar thing, but I would not suspect that. With your instincts and knowledge you would have already suspected that and ruled in out/in.
There is the possibility of being intolerant of or sensitive to certain foods. That usually leads back to the infection thing though. It is easy to rule out the common ones...gluten and casseine...with 2 week elimination diets.
Other than those thoughts, who knows. Maybe your body uses more tryptophan than phenylalanine and you get a too-much serotonin down feeling. Or vica versa, whatever the genes are doing, making too much of something, not enough of something else.
With a long psych history with chemicals drugs, the gut/yeast is the most likely culprit as I see it. Stress is hard enough on our good flora gut bacteria. Common sense tells me the drugs we take very likely are not friendly to our flora, and thus give an opportune environment for natural yeast to inhabit and multiply in ways they were not intended to. I believe it is highly underecognized and underdiagnosed.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2009, at 19:04:37
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by bleauberry on November 23, 2009, at 18:14:53
Can't fast tried years ago headache by noon which immediately disappeared with food. Phillipa
Posted by maxime on November 24, 2009, at 15:34:48
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » Maxime, posted by linkadge on November 23, 2009, at 16:47:00
The fasting makes me feel like I am in control and can conquer the world. Sometimes I get a little giddy from not eating. It's a good feeling. It helps my mood. But then after a while I start to get depressed because I am depriving my brain of food. I don't know how long it takes for me to reach the depressed state. Not eating makes me feel like I am on a stimulant. That is what I would compare it to.
What I have described is really common among people with anorexia.
Posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 17:06:09
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » linkadge, posted by maxime on November 24, 2009, at 15:34:48
>I don't know how long it takes for me to reach >the depressed state. Not eating makes me feel >like I am on a stimulant. That is what I would >compare it to.
>What I have described is really common among >people with anorexia
Oh sh*t. I hope I'm not going down a bad path. I have been noticing the exact same things. When I skip a meal I feel more in control. It also makes me feel more connected to people. Like I become one with others, even those I envy. Like a metting of that emotional overtone. It totally feels like I just took about 5mg of dexedrine and 0.5mg of lorazepam. Like a stimulant and a sedative. Supposidly fasting increases the activity of a compound that binds to the same receptors as GHB.
I also notice an increased richness to things around me. Like I am more able to live in the moment.
I hope I'm not going down a bad path (because I also exercise a lot). I'm 6'2 and 1/2 (135 pounds).
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2009, at 18:05:34
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 17:06:09
Might want to reconsider the yeast connection. It fits perfectly. Here's why.
They need carbs and sugars to live, and they multiply at a rapid rate with those foods. As a normal part of their lives, they excrete their waste and toxins that are absorbed through your intestinal linings into your blood and to your brain. There is a high affinity for opioid receptors, but actually all receptors and glands. Serotonin and dopamine molecules themselves become somewhat contaminated.
When you don't eat, you have time to clean out all that toxic brew. The receptors are opened up. The glands are opened up. The yeast activity is slowed down. And of course, under those conditions, it would feel exactly as you described.
Easy to test for. Pick up some Pau D'Arco tea bags (boil for 15 minutes); grapefruit seed extract; caprylic acid. Start off with full regular doses and see what happens. These things are rather benign if there is no yeast overgrowth. You won't feel much of anything from them. If however within 3 to 7 days you encounter heavy fatigue, brain fog, worsened mood, aches and pains...flu like but not the flu...you just made a diagnosis.
This idea could be way out of the ballpark or it could be a bullseye. I would not even think of debunking it until I had personally ruled it in or out by the very definitive challenge test described above.
There is a cause for what you experience. It doesn't just happen for no reason. I don't know of a more common misunderstood underdiagnosed situation than I have described here.
Oh, that's ridiculous. It only happens to other people, not me. Besides, my doctor never heard of it. Hogwash.
Common.
> >I don't know how long it takes for me to reach >the depressed state. Not eating makes me feel >like I am on a stimulant. That is what I would >compare it to.
>
> >What I have described is really common among >people with anorexia
>
> Oh sh*t. I hope I'm not going down a bad path. I have been noticing the exact same things. When I skip a meal I feel more in control. It also makes me feel more connected to people. Like I become one with others, even those I envy. Like a metting of that emotional overtone. It totally feels like I just took about 5mg of dexedrine and 0.5mg of lorazepam. Like a stimulant and a sedative. Supposidly fasting increases the activity of a compound that binds to the same receptors as GHB.
>
> I also notice an increased richness to things around me. Like I am more able to live in the moment.
>
> I hope I'm not going down a bad path (because I also exercise a lot). I'm 6'2 and 1/2 (135 pounds).
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2009, at 21:28:56
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 17:06:09
Link you're already too thin. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on November 25, 2009, at 7:28:03
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 17:06:09
It can be very addicting. Please don't go down that path. You are already underweight as it is! Very underweight.
Posted by linkadge on November 25, 2009, at 15:52:08
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » linkadge, posted by Maxime on November 25, 2009, at 7:28:03
>It can be very addicting. Please don't go down >that path. You are already underweight as it is! >Very underweight.
Accdording to my BMI, 140 is the lowest healthy weight for people my height. I am 5 pounds less than this. I am not trying to lose weight, infact I want to gain weight. I more want to feel better. When I eat whenever I feel like it, I generally feel worse.
Linkadge
Posted by Maxime on November 26, 2009, at 21:03:54
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by linkadge on November 25, 2009, at 15:52:08
What if you tried something like protein shakes? I wonder if you could stomach that.
Posted by Buckeye Fan on November 27, 2009, at 16:03:40
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » linkadge, posted by Maxime on November 26, 2009, at 21:03:54
Could anyone share thier experience with longer fasts in connection with the PMeds?
I have fasted 3,5 and even 10 days once (liquids only) and I feel strongly that fasting is a great way to cleanse, restore and give our system a "break" from digesting food.
My concern is what effect the PMeds will have on mood, blood sugar, and sleep...so as a result it has been a few years since I fasted.
My wife on the other hand has fasted 40 days , several times this past year!
She is healthy and really has the will power to complete these periodic times of cleansing and spiritual discpline.She does not take any Meds however.
I am on pristiq, trazadone and librium.
Thanks
BF
Posted by linkadge on November 27, 2009, at 16:21:09
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » linkadge, posted by Maxime on November 26, 2009, at 21:03:54
>What if you tried something like protein shakes? >I wonder if you could stomach that.
Its not that I can't stomach it. I can eat normally and (phyiscally) I feel better. Its just that whenever I eat everthing I want to eat I start to feel worse psychologically.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 27, 2009, at 16:24:13
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting, posted by Buckeye Fan on November 27, 2009, at 16:03:40
The research shows that periodic fasting and/or caloric restriction seems to have very beneficial effects on metabolism - and may help stave off a host of nerodegenerative diseases.
I'm not trying to take this to the stage of anorexia. I just seem to feel better if I skip meals here and there.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on November 27, 2009, at 16:41:32
In reply to Re: Theraputic fasting » Maxime, posted by linkadge on November 27, 2009, at 16:21:09
I sometimes feel somewhat worse after a meal, especially if it includes substances with high glycemic indexes. I don't know if it is a neuroendocrine thing or an autonomic thing. However, I do experience mild heart palpitations, flattened affect, and an increase in psychomotor retardation.
- Scott
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