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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by herpills on June 29, 2009, at 15:25:59
We all experience side effects from our meds. It seems the most common are insomnia, sexual dysfunction, and others which we can *feel* directly.
Does anyone else worry about the "hidden" side effects? Things we cannot feel directly but could be happening to our bodies "behind the scenes"
herpills
Posted by linkadge on June 29, 2009, at 16:40:18
In reply to The 'hidden' side effects of our meds, posted by herpills on June 29, 2009, at 15:25:59
I imagine there is a lot of metabolic and hormonal stuff going on. My mom's doc said that her heavy doxapin use probably contrubited to her diabetes. Who knows. Its one of those things that we won't know untill stuff starts showing up.
The TCA's have been linked to all the bad diseases, cancer, heart issues, diabetes, etc. etc.
And when we start getting into the 'coctails' of meds. God knows.
Linkadge
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 29, 2009, at 17:32:11
In reply to Re: The 'hidden' side effects of our meds, posted by linkadge on June 29, 2009, at 16:40:18
> I imagine there is a lot of metabolic and hormonal stuff going on. My mom's doc said that her heavy doxapin use probably contrubited to her diabetes. Who knows. Its one of those things that we won't know untill stuff starts showing up.
>
> The TCA's have been linked to all the bad diseases, cancer, heart issues, diabetes, etc. etc.
>
> And when we start getting into the 'coctails' of meds. God knows.
>
> LinkadgeWell, diabetes is one thing, and cancer a very far off other. The links to cancer in humans are far from conclusive; the heart concerns (of certain TCA's)where always known and can be managed fine with proper care. Nobody needs to be alarmed or scared.
Jay
Posted by maxime on June 29, 2009, at 18:08:32
In reply to The 'hidden' side effects of our meds, posted by herpills on June 29, 2009, at 15:25:59
This is one time where I think "ignorance is bliss". I probably wouldn't take my meds if I knew the full extent of what it does to body and brain.
Posted by linkadge on June 29, 2009, at 19:15:03
In reply to Re: The 'hidden' side effects of our meds, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 29, 2009, at 17:32:11
>Well, diabetes is one thing, and cancer a very >far off other. The links to cancer in humans are >far from conclusive;
This is what we are taking about though. The 'hidden' side effects. Just because the link to certain problems has not been proven 'conclusively' doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>the heart concerns (of >certain TCA's)where >always known and can be >managed fine with >proper care. Nobody needs to >be alarmed or >scared.
The full scope of the cardiac effects of TCAs was definately not always known. They knew about heart rhythm disturbances but thats about it.
Sure, nobody needs to be alarmed or scared. Just keep injesting your medications. Don't ask questions.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2009, at 20:12:03
In reply to Re: The 'hidden' side effects of our meds, posted by linkadge on June 29, 2009, at 19:15:03
Link I do agree with you. We now know antipsychotics can cause diabetes and many other meds weight gain for some all health risks. Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on June 30, 2009, at 2:49:14
In reply to Re: The 'hidden' side effects of our meds » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2009, at 20:12:03
> Link I do agree with you. We now know antipsychotics can cause diabetes and many other meds weight gain for some all health risks. Phillipa
-can-... not will.
And I'm quite familiar with the weight gain :/.... but without it at the moment, what can I do?
Sure, I can also worry about what Lamictal is doing to the inside of my body but since I went up slow and there's no evidence of drug related problems externally, its benefits versus risks and why not ?
And as for "cocktails"... entitled to your opinion and yes, they do increase side effects and should be managed by a psychiatrist familiar with psychopharmacology and interactions.... but a lot of people with complex problems, including myself, need multiple medications.Of course reducing the amount of medications to the minimum that can sustain your functionality is always best.
For someone seriously depressed, I think any concern (other than someone pregnant or diagnosed already with such a condition) over such things as genotoxicity of TCAs is far outweighed by the more important issues such as becoming shut-in or suicide.
Just my 2c
-- Jay
Posted by linkadge on June 30, 2009, at 7:47:00
In reply to Re: The 'hidden' side effects of our meds » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on June 30, 2009, at 2:49:14
This is a new generation. The med generation. A much higher percentage of people are taking psychiatric medication than ever before. Also the use of medication combinations has dramatically increased. The long term effects of these new coctails is not known. The clincial data is nonexistent in this area. We are the guinny pigs. We are the generation which is going to demonstrate what long term effects these medications have.
Linkadge
Posted by yxibow on June 30, 2009, at 23:04:15
In reply to Re: We are the guinny pigs, posted by linkadge on June 30, 2009, at 7:47:00
> This is a new generation. The med generation. A much higher percentage of people are taking psychiatric medication than ever before. Also the use of medication combinations has dramatically increased. The long term effects of these new coctails is not known. The clincial data is nonexistent in this area. We are the guinny pigs. We are the generation which is going to demonstrate what long term effects these medications have.
>
> Linkadge
I disagree... since the dawn of the use of what we would now call alternative medications, everyone was a guinea pig.Everyone who tried food that we now call GRAS (generally recognized as safe) suffered the consequences.
What about the first person who ate nightshade ? Amanita muscarita ? Legends from those who died were passed on and those weren't eaten.
Survivalists and adventurers now know what can be eaten, and what possibly can be eaten by books of poisonous plants, that were probably eaten and some hunter/gatherer keeled over.
The first vaccine for smallpox was in 1798... I'm sure there were quite a few side effects. But it was a great leap forward.
The late 19th and early 20th century were the time of "snake oils". I'm sure people died from toxic metals in them.
Acetaminophen was introduced in the early 20th century. It would never be approved now but fortunately we have it as a vital tool against fever. Its immediate precursor was even worse and killed people.
People who were suffering from things like rheumatic fever got the first sulfa drugs, which were potentially quite dangerous and could cause anaphylactic shock among other things. My father survived, but you could say that he was a guinea pig of the Depression era.
Chlorpromazine (Thorazine, Largactil) was a great stride forward for psychotically ill patients and basically eliminated the (talk about guinea pig), horrible treatment of brain drilling, insulin, and lobotomies.Those people were also guinea pigs. Yes, to this day, after its introduction in 1954, 55 years later, we haven't solved the TD problem.
It scares me and I'm sure many people who need to take APs for psychotic or other disorders are in a way guinea pigs if you really want to put it in such a base way, but it is now informed choice unless you're in immediate danger to yourself or others.
But actually besides the cardiac effects and a whole list of other potential things, Thorazine was not as strong as the drugs that followed it. In fact some suggest low doses of it have very low TD potentials.
SSRIs have been around for about 20 years and prescribed to millions of patients, hence easily over 20 million patient-years of experience (that is how its defined, X Phase IV patients and how many years they have been on it, factoring in how long the agent has been out).
In the end, life is fatal. Don't want to be a "guinea pig", don't eat food (everything could have salmonella), don't drink water (could be polluted), and don't ingest medications (might have side effects).But you'd be dead in days to weeks because you haven't had anything (minus medication) that sustains human life. That risk has to be taken and I know its a possibly ridiculous assessment of risks, but its a point.
So I say go forth young (or older) man (and woman), and make your decisions. They're your entitlements depending hopefully that you live in a fairly democratic place.
There will be more generations of people, assuming this world doesn't collapse of global warming (lovely thought, but now quite obvious).And I am of the generation that will have to survive it just like everyone else my age....
.....(though I knew it since I was something like 8 or 10, I amassed a large quantity of information and was going to write a book.... that folder still sits... but anyhow)
So those of us of Gen-X or whatever the definition is vaguely will also be the guinea pigs both of what we've done to our earth and also what we can do to correct things, and still life will press on in a way, hopefully leading to things like more stem cell research.And that will also be "guinea pig". There's no way of getting around using just guinea pigs or mice or dogs or the like, eventually things are tested on humans.
Maybe future computer molecule models will lessen that need.
I wait for the fantasy technological advances that those of us who remember The Jetsons and the like thought would come much sooner.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 7:58:45
In reply to Re: We are the guinny pigs » linkadge, posted by yxibow on June 30, 2009, at 23:04:15
Thats too long for me to read right now.
Regards,
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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