![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 7:14:02
I have suggested to a friend of mine that she take a look at combining Nardil (phenelzine) + Klonopin (clonazepam). She suffers from depression and a severe anxiety disorder that prevent her from functioning. Neither symptom cluster have been helped very much by SSRIs.
Has anyone had experience with combining these two drugs?
- Scott
Posted by Michael Bell on November 21, 2008, at 8:52:05
In reply to Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 7:14:02
Been there, done that. My experience is that that combo is good for social anxiety, but that it exacerbates depression and generalized anxiety. I think Klonopin is the main culprit in eventually causing depression, anger issues, etc., or at least making them worse if you are prone to that.
> I have suggested to a friend of mine that she take a look at combining Nardil (phenelzine) + Klonopin (clonazepam). She suffers from depression and a severe anxiety disorder that prevent her from functioning. Neither symptom cluster have been helped very much by SSRIs.
>
> Has anyone had experience with combining these two drugs?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 9:54:41
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments? » SLS, posted by Michael Bell on November 21, 2008, at 8:52:05
> Been there, done that. My experience is that that combo is good for social anxiety, but that it exacerbates depression and generalized anxiety. I think Klonopin is the main culprit in eventually causing depression, anger issues, etc., or at least making them worse if you are prone to that.
I know for sure that Klonopin makes me more depressed. Of course, some people find Klonopin to be a life-saver. Interestingly, it is the only benzodiazepine noted for having effects on serotonin neurotransmission. The mechanism for this is poorly understood, but is probably the reason it has mood stabilizing properties.
- Scott
Posted by mav27 on November 21, 2008, at 10:38:37
In reply to Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 7:14:02
I used that combo because the nardil was great for my social anxiety and general anxiety but didn't help with anticipatory anxiety so it was very hard to get out and about still.. the klonapin helped greatly with that part of it.
Posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 10:54:56
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 9:54:41
I've been looking for info on klonopin as a mood stabalizer and so far unsuccessful is there a link somewhere? I do know that previous posters use this combo successfully. Don't want to name names here. Phillipa
Posted by Abby Cunningham on November 21, 2008, at 11:03:41
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 10:54:56
If you do a search on this board, I think you will find threads where Klonopin is known to exacerbate or cause depression.
I take xanax and it happens to stay in my system for a long time so that I can take it up to 7-9 hours apart. I find that it does have antidepressant properties, which have been reported on pubmed and other journals. It was first touted as anti-anxiety with antidepressant component to it.
Benzos are of course depressants. I found valium (diazepam) to be depressing but that was when I was using it to taper down my xanax.
Posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 12:27:44
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by Abby Cunningham on November 21, 2008, at 11:03:41
Sorry hyjack for a moment Abby this explains why klonopin when going down on xanax caused me to feel suicidal. Mystery solved thanks. Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on November 22, 2008, at 0:32:47
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by SLS on November 21, 2008, at 9:54:41
> > Been there, done that. My experience is that that combo is good for social anxiety, but that it exacerbates depression and generalized anxiety. I think Klonopin is the main culprit in eventually causing depression, anger issues, etc., or at least making them worse if you are prone to that.
>
> I know for sure that Klonopin makes me more depressed. Of course, some people find Klonopin to be a life-saver. Interestingly, it is the only benzodiazepine noted for having effects on serotonin neurotransmission. The mechanism for this is poorly understood, but is probably the reason it has mood stabilizing properties.
>
>
> - Scottdo you have a link about clonazapam being serotonergic? I've seen this said before but have never found where this comes from.
-d/r
Posted by SLS on November 22, 2008, at 5:51:22
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments? » SLS, posted by desolationrower on November 22, 2008, at 0:32:47
1: Adv Neurol. 1986;43:645-51.Links
Clonazepam-induced up-regulation of serotonin1 and serotonin2 binding sites in rat frontal cortex.
Wagner HR, Reches A, Yablonskaya E, Fahn S.Chronic administration of the benzodiazepine clonazepam increased the number of [3H]5-HT (5-HT1) and [3H]SPIP (5-HT2) binding sites in rat frontal cortex. In each instance, binding changes reflected increases in the maximum densities of binding sites (Bmax) with no change in ligand affinities (KD). Increases in binding required continued clonazepam exposure (10 days) at high doses. [3H]5-HT binding was significantly elevated at daily dose levels (i.p.) of 5.0 mg/kg but not 2.5 mg/kg. [3H]SPIP binding was significantly increased at drug doses of 2.5 mg/kg but not 1.0 mg/kg. Binding changes were regional in that they occurred in membranes from frontal cortex but not brainstem. A second benzodiazepine, diazepam, did not affect either binding site at daily doses of 30 mg/kg. These data suggest that serotonin receptor changes seen after chronic clonazepam may occur as a compensatory response to decreases in the presynaptic release of serotonin.
PMID: 2418653 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by SLS on November 22, 2008, at 5:54:05
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by SLS on November 22, 2008, at 5:51:22
There are other citations on Medline. However, they are older and more difficult to find.
- Scott
Posted by that_guy23 on November 24, 2008, at 14:56:18
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by Abby Cunningham on November 21, 2008, at 11:03:41
> If you do a search on this board, I think you will find threads where Klonopin is known to exacerbate or cause depression.
>
> I take xanax and it happens to stay in my system for a long time so that I can take it up to 7-9 hours apart. I find that it does have antidepressant properties, which have been reported on pubmed and other journals. It was first touted as anti-anxiety with antidepressant component to it.
>
> Benzos are of course depressants. I found valium (diazepam) to be depressing but that was when I was using it to taper down my xanax.Actually klonopin is a longer lasting benzo and xanax is short acting. Klonopin is the most recommended for social anxiety, and is pretty much known as a life saver for most people suffering from SA.
I myself am on nardil and clonazepam(klonopin) but I do find that the nardil effects how well the benzo works. I havn't yet had relief from SA from nardil almost 12 weeks in, but my mood, attitude, and motivation had changed at first, but I was upped to a very high dose, that I think may have backtracked me because of about a month of debilatating orthostatic hypotension. Iv'e posted about it many times, and if you want to see the whole post I will show it upon request.
So I guess that isn't much help, but I have read of many that had much success with the combo.
hope I was of some assistance.
Posted by crittercuddler on December 15, 2008, at 23:01:03
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin... Any comments?, posted by Abby Cunningham on November 21, 2008, at 11:03:41
Hi Abby, I am new here. My name is Michelle.
I am sorry to hijack this thread, but I wanted to get in touch with you because I know all about benzo withdrawal. I am six months benzo free. I went through a terrible taper the first half of this year and since then I have been dealing with a post withdrawal syndrome from Klonopin.
I only took Klonopin, 3mg daily, for a year and a half in total. But, let me tell you, it exacerbated my depression greatly. I became very suidical. I overdosed twice and was hospitilized three times... all while on Klonopin. Now, I have tinnitus from it. I wish so dearly that I would have never taken it. I also dearly wish that my doctor would have warned me of the risks, not kept me on it long term, etc...
People interested in benzo education should check out "The Ashton Manual". You can read it online and buy it to have your own copy should you choose. Also, sites like benzobuddies.org or benzoisland.org are great support sites for those tapering or struggling with unwanted effects from long term usage of benzos.
I am a member of benzobuddies. If anyone wants links to my threads there, let me know.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.