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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 11:04:33
I've googled the poop out of this. I have no desire for food during the day, so I'm only eating one meal..I used to take slim fast or boost at least to get some nutrients and minerals..I know you're not supposed to take either of the above on an MAOI, but has anybody found a safe meal replacement..
I have terrible eating habits, always have, gag at the thought of breakfast, never know what to eat at lunch on a MAOI as soups are off the list, so would like just to be able to drink a meal replacement..I hate cooking and making a fresh supper every nite is doing pretty good for me..
Any responses would be greatly appreciated!
Posted by ny2bk on December 16, 2007, at 11:42:54
In reply to Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 11:04:33
> I've googled the poop out of this. I have no desire for food during the day, so I'm only eating one meal..I used to take slim fast or boost at least to get some nutrients and minerals..I know you're not supposed to take either of the above on an MAOI, but has anybody found a safe meal replacement..
>
> I have terrible eating habits, always have, gag at the thought of breakfast, never know what to eat at lunch on a MAOI as soups are off the list, so would like just to be able to drink a meal replacement..I hate cooking and making a fresh supper every nite is doing pretty good for me..
>
> Any responses would be greatly appreciated!I hate to put fourth my response in fear youll take it to literaly,and end up being the exception.
That said,from my own experiance on one for over 5 years,as well as tons of reading and personal interaction with various group members on them,ive come to the conclusion that most fears of the Maois ARE exgarated,mainly because so little was reasearched on them since they disappeared from mainstream so fast.
I believe the REAL danger that the small exception can have interaction wise combinced with the general overall lack of knowledge of these drugs simply creates the hysteria in the "better safe than sorry" catergory.
To note for yourself the lists for them have changed officaly many times,and foods have eased down in its danger.
I found my no no foods quickly in my first week,since then my diet really hasent changed,i just try to eat simple things around actual dosing TIME as this seems to be when a interaction seems most possable.What i recomend is this,
- Print out basic info,basic but to the point and give it to the closest family member so in even of ER the MAIN DOC can be given this,and ask to see a toxiglogist if possable.Keep this papaer handy in a close place.-
- It is said the benzo klonopin can simply help a interaction long enough until proper help arrives,dont know the validity of this,but seems easier then taking a drug on the basis if its HYPOTENSION,or HYPERTENSION,let the docs figure that one out.
- Unless you know you are playing with fire,i.e a social drinker who drinks a few nightly or the like,then dont let too much anxiety come in.
- Simply test foods slowly,as well as learn to feel the drugs onset normaly,and kinda learn when something might be wrong.However not to encourage you to go out and eat a buffet,i am saying i hope you are not letting just the simple anxiety of interaction causing you to be on a miserable diet when it does not have to be that way.
Just move slow,add thins in a single setting,not double as in two possable interacting foods,add the single food,at a small increment,and as you do this i think you will build more of a confidence of handling a time (which we hope never comes) of a interaction.
Dont turn away some ice cream,the holidays are comming,a great time to carefully test some good home style snacks.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2007, at 11:48:35
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by ny2bk on December 16, 2007, at 11:42:54
I thought anything with tyramine was the danger? What does a benzo do for a crisis? And why a toxicologist if a reaction? Phillipa
Posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 15:14:07
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there? » ny2bk, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2007, at 11:48:35
I'm too scared yet to "test the waters" so to speak with trying out foods that may cause a reaction..I wear a medic alert bracelet..I was just wondering if anyone knew of a different meal replacement other than slim fast or boost that was safe to ingest, at least until I'm ready to try a few different things..
Posted by Molitor on December 16, 2007, at 16:31:32
In reply to Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 11:04:33
I'm fairly conservative with my MAOI dietary restrictions, and one thing I've used in the past is powdered Carnation Instant Breakfast, which comes in foil packets. You can mix it with fresh milk, or powdered milk and *cold* water in a shaker.
I would even dump a packet into a mug of coffee.
It's not a diet product, however.
Posted by ny2bk on December 16, 2007, at 16:43:11
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there? » ny2bk, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2007, at 11:48:35
> I thought anything with tyramine was the danger? What does a benzo do for a crisis? And why a toxicologist if a reaction? Phillipa
I dont know why a toxicolgist knew as much as he did,but all i can say is i felt very much on my own with the entire staff in regard to the MAOI,fearing the doc even took my advice when i PLEADED with her to run it past a search engine -MAOI- before she used anything on me.
Prior to him arriving,the basic treatment was the use of a big warm mug of ACTIVATED CHARCOAL,YUMMY,imagine drinking wet dirt,and some cooling.I was pretty much left alone from there to go in and out of conscionous with my family beside me.
When i came to for the last time,there he sat,not sure for how long prior,he gave me a good "talking too" which i deserved,and he seemed to know fully all the details i hoped the docs from the start knew.My brother says he overheard him after making a call to i suppose his office stating "yess we had a possable fatal reaction here" but there really wasnt much to be done anyway,he told me what i knew,told me i was irresponsable for what i did,which i knew,and that was that.Then the lovly bills of over 2 grand for a night in ICU.
Posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 17:17:27
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there? » Justherself54, posted by Molitor on December 16, 2007, at 16:31:32
> I'm fairly conservative with my MAOI dietary restrictions, and one thing I've used in the past is powdered Carnation Instant Breakfast, which comes in foil packets. You can mix it with fresh milk, or powdered milk and *cold* water in a shaker.
>
> I would even dump a packet into a mug of coffee.
>
> It's not a diet product, however.Thank you..never even thought of looking at the Carnation Instant breakfast..I could probably get that in me with my morning coffee, as eating something first thing in the morning makes me want to gag!
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2007, at 18:41:03
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by ny2bk on December 16, 2007, at 16:43:11
That was a long time ago wasn't it and not our old friend? Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on December 16, 2007, at 18:46:47
In reply to Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 11:04:33
Force yourself to eat good food...fresh stuff, not prepared stuff. Period. Three times a day. A snack inbetween each meal. Even if the meals are small, doesn't matter. You gotta start. Whether you want them or not. Permanent healing will not come otherwise. No drug will forever make up for a deficiency of life-giving and health-giving food.
You force yourself to take the drug. You force yourself to endure the side effects. You force yourself to do lots of things. Just put food on that list of things you must do. If you let your body down, it will let you down.
Posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 21:26:25
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by bleauberry on December 16, 2007, at 18:46:47
> Force yourself to eat good food...fresh stuff, not prepared stuff. Period. Three times a day. A snack inbetween each meal. Even if the meals are small, doesn't matter. You gotta start. Whether you want them or not. Permanent healing will not come otherwise. No drug will forever make up for a deficiency of life-giving and health-giving food.
>
> You force yourself to take the drug. You force yourself to endure the side effects. You force yourself to do lots of things. Just put food on that list of things you must do. If you let your body down, it will let you down.I was simply asking if anyone knew of a meal replacement that was safe with a MAOI..this may cause me to get a PBC but I felt lectured by your response..right now I'm concentrating on getting my dosage correct and coping with insomnia..so I don't feel like forcing myself to eat healthier..one side effect of Nardil for me has been complete lack of appetite during the day..putting a meal replacement in me is better than eating nothing at all..
Posted by ny2bk on December 17, 2007, at 0:11:36
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 21:26:25
> > Force yourself to eat good food...fresh stuff, not prepared stuff. Period. Three times a day. A snack inbetween each meal. Even if the meals are small, doesn't matter. You gotta start. Whether you want them or not. Permanent healing will not come otherwise. No drug will forever make up for a deficiency of life-giving and health-giving food.
> >
> > You force yourself to take the drug. You force yourself to endure the side effects. You force yourself to do lots of things. Just put food on that list of things you must do. If you let your body down, it will let you down.
>
> I was simply asking if anyone knew of a meal replacement that was safe with a MAOI..this may cause me to get a PBC but I felt lectured by your response..right now I'm concentrating on getting my dosage correct and coping with insomnia..so I don't feel like forcing myself to eat healthier..one side effect of Nardil for me has been complete lack of appetite during the day..putting a meal replacement in me is better than eating nothing at all..
>
>
>Dont think it was a lecture intentionaly,basicly i think what most are saying and trying to put it in a more brighter shade is you there is no actual set DIET that i at least know of.
Your basicaly given what they ONLY know of to possably cause interaction,and based on that you have to adhere to a diet either totaly avoiding those foods or eating them sparingly.
First thing to remeber is they CANT know for sure all the foods capable of interaction,in the same way they are not saying these foods WILL SURLY cause a interaction.
If one does well on a MAOI and knowing the risks opts to stay,you have to kinda wing the diet,and basicly find from the list what you can eat,usualy aside from sensative people most are not affected and can eat in limit the majority of those foods.
However it is a matter of walking a fine line,maois in general are just that,as they interact with otc drugs and almost every other brain entering substance,preparing for and knowing the drug is the best and safest wat to live on it with least hassle.
As time goes on and you become very accustomed to the feel of the med,the onset of it,the normal effects etc,you likly be ahead of the game in the event of a crisis.
But with no lecture and a forward answer,there is no listed diet ive come across for maois,least no on the net,but at the same time the food list has been revised many times in decrease and its a warning of POSSABLE interaction which means many of the foods can be eaten in moderation.
I have no problems with pizza when i eat like normal at 1-2 slices,now being a pig and eating half of the pie and maybe some cold slices at night will be a different story.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2007, at 0:36:33
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there?, posted by ny2bk on December 17, 2007, at 0:11:36
> Your basically given what they ONLY know of to possibly cause interaction,and based on that you have to adhere to a diet either totally avoiding those foods or eating them sparingly.Yep. That's part of the deal and why MAOIs are not widely prescribed. Not everyone is willing and/or capable of following the diet and medication restrictions.
>
> ... usually aside from sensitive people most are not affected and can eat in limit the majority of those foods.I strongly disagree, and I'm not aware of any studies which support that statement. For something so serious, I'd like to see more than anecdotal evidence before advising someone on an MAOI that they likely can eat freely without consequence.
>
> As time goes on and you become very accustomed to the feel of the med,the onset of it,the normal effects etc,you likely be ahead of the game in the event of a crisis.Perhaps, though my goal is still to avoid any HTN crisis.
>
> But with no lecture and a forward answer,there is no listed diet ive come across for maois,least no on the net,but at the same time the food list has been revised many times in decrease and its a warning of POSSIBLE interaction which means many of the foods can be eaten in moderation.That is not how I would interpret "possible" interactions. The number of different foods on the list of restricted foods has decreased over time once they started measuring tyramine levels in those foods. Foods whose tyramine levels measured below the threshhold for causing a reaction in most people could be less risky, and some have even dropped off some lists. But there is still a high risk of a hypertensive crisis if one consumes enough tyramine as in eating tyramine-rich foods.
> I have no problems with pizza when i eat like normal at 1-2 slices,now being a pig and eating half of the pie and maybe some cold slices at night will be a different story.
And did that pizza have only mozzarella and/or provolone cheese on it? Both are fresh cheeses as opposed to aged and thus are not high in tyramine. I eat all the pizza I want as long as it doesn't have aged cheese, and of course no other toppings that are high in tyramine. So a pizza is not a pizza is not a pizza, depending on the toppings.
Along the same lines, I could say that I eat soup, but it matters which soups. I don't have miso soup or any with miso in it. I don't have "instant" soups, as they all tend to have chicken protein concentrate and/or yeast extract in them in higher quantities than I am comfortable with. But split pea and ham soup? You bet. As long as the ingredients all check out.
gg
Posted by ny2bk on December 17, 2007, at 8:26:21
In reply to Re: Meal Replacements MAOI - any out there? » ny2bk, posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2007, at 0:36:33
>
> > Your basically given what they ONLY know of to possibly cause interaction,and based on that you have to adhere to a diet either totally avoiding those foods or eating them sparingly.
>
> Yep. That's part of the deal and why MAOIs are not widely prescribed. Not everyone is willing and/or capable of following the diet and medication restrictions.
>
>
> >
> > ... usually aside from sensitive people most are not affected and can eat in limit the majority of those foods.
>
> I strongly disagree, and I'm not aware of any studies which support that statement. For something so serious, I'd like to see more than anecdotal evidence before advising someone on an MAOI that they likely can eat freely without consequence.
>
>Strongly disagreeing is fine,in fact it`s opposite opinions at times to which i use in choosing a option.However i at the same time that is exactly my point,it`s my opinion.I believe there are tons of info here where opinions are presented,it`s not to say to go out and put them into action.Im a poster,not a DR.,so obviously my postings are based on my opinion or thoughts unless other wise stated i.e adding a link or document,even then still i personly would advise anyone using info from the internet period to use extreme caution and finaly and most importantly there own responability.
I doubt my post could be looked at as me encourgaging the poster to go on and take my advice,but rather simply giving it.
I dident post it was official statements,so in that case im guessing at the end of my posts i am to write this is just my view? I see many posts where the same issue would apply,and again i doubt this poster,or most,(my view)would use information in a post with responsability,and if so,that seems to be more on the individual reading.
> >
> > As time goes on and you become very accustomed to the feel of the med,the onset of it,the normal effects etc,you likely be ahead of the game in the event of a crisis.
>
> Perhaps, though my goal is still to avoid any HTN crisis.
> >
> > But with no lecture and a forward answer,there is no listed diet ive come across for maois,least no on the net,but at the same time the food list has been revised many times in decrease and its a warning of POSSIBLE interaction which means many of the foods can be eaten in moderation.
>
> That is not how I would interpret "possible" interactions. The number of different foods on the list of restricted foods has decreased over time once they started measuring tyramine levels in those foods. Foods whose tyramine levels measured below the threshhold for causing a reaction in most people could be less risky, and some have even dropped off some lists. But there is still a high risk of a hypertensive crisis if one consumes enough tyramine as in eating tyramine-rich foods.
>
> > I have no problems with pizza when i eat like normal at 1-2 slices,now being a pig and eating half of the pie and maybe some cold slices at night will be a different story.
>
> And did that pizza have only mozzarella and/or provolone cheese on it? Both are fresh cheeses as opposed to aged and thus are not high in tyramine. I eat all the pizza I want as long as it doesn't have aged cheese, and of course no other toppings that are high in tyramine. So a pizza is not a pizza is not a pizza, depending on the toppings.
>
> Along the same lines, I could say that I eat soup, but it matters which soups. I don't have miso soup or any with miso in it. I don't have "instant" soups, as they all tend to have chicken protein concentrate and/or yeast extract in them in higher quantities than I am comfortable with. But split pea and ham soup? You bet. As long as the ingredients all check out.
>
> gg
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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