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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by esokev on April 19, 2007, at 17:56:48
I've been reading over all the MAOI diet, and I'm wondering... What on earth CAN you eat??? Yeast extract and soy are in pretty much everything... I'm not just saying foods I LIKE to eat, but LITERALLY everything it seems like. Any quality insight would be helpful...
Posted by willyee on April 19, 2007, at 23:14:49
In reply to MAOI users - What in the heck do you eat??!!, posted by esokev on April 19, 2007, at 17:56:48
> I've been reading over all the MAOI diet, and I'm wondering... What on earth CAN you eat??? Yeast extract and soy are in pretty much everything... I'm not just saying foods I LIKE to eat, but LITERALLY everything it seems like. Any quality insight would be helpful...
Personaly i believe its a scare tactic,docs just simply dont want to mess with these old drugs when they have pounds of samples and up to date information and experiance on newer ones.As for the diet,its usualy an individual thing,most people will find the maoi especialy parnate is extremly forgiving on diets.
Everyone will have there NO NO food,mines is soy sauce,other than that i pretty much eat like i always have.
-- Maoi would not be a smart choice if you have a "few beers" every night.
-- Most users will not have any problems with diet,however there is always exceptions and some people are very sensative to the drug.
All in all its still should be a option if someone is failing on other drugs.
Posted by Jedi on April 20, 2007, at 2:40:01
In reply to MAOI users - What in the heck do you eat??!!, posted by esokev on April 19, 2007, at 17:56:48
> I've been reading over all the MAOI diet, and I'm wondering... What on earth CAN you eat??? Yeast extract and soy are in pretty much everything... I'm not just saying foods I LIKE to eat, but LITERALLY everything it seems like. Any quality insight would be helpful...
Hi,
I've been on MAOIs for most of the past ten years. I eat pretty much anything I want with a few exceptions. Aged cheese is the biggie when it comes tyramine content. Mozzarella is fine. The thing to watch out for are over the counter cold remedies. Most of them carry MAOI warnings, at least in the US. You can have a really healthy diet with lots of fruits, vegetables and fresh protein on MAOI meds. The following post by Elizabeth years ago is real close to the restrictions I follow.
Take care and be well,
Jedi"MAOI diet short list
Posted by Elizabeth on August 17, 2001, at 13:43:12Hi. A couple of people have requested that I repost the dietary restrictions that I followed while taking MAOIs. Please don't take this as gospel; it's what worked for me and it's based on some fairly meticulous library research (I can provide a reading list for anyone who's interested). A lot of the "menus" that get handed out by pharmacies, hostpials, doctors, etc. are not very accurate because they are out of date and place extreme and unnecessary restrictions on what you can eat. This results in a number of problems. Many people are scared off by long, intimidating lists of restrictions. In other cases, a person will discover that s/he can "cheat" on some of the foods (the ones that really shouldn't be on the list) and will therefore take the entire list less seriously. There are some things that you definitely should avoid, but they are relatively few.
So, here it is -- a list of some things that I felt merited avoidance, and others that I felt were safe (and had no problems with, of course):
WINE is fine. Some people may get histamine-related headaches from it and think they are having a hypertensive episode when they are not.
BOTTLED BEERS are usually fine (American and Canadian ones are the best studied).
TAP BEER should be avoided.
Most AGED CHEESES are out. Of note, the mozzarella generally used on most pizzas has been found to be okay. So unless it's some weird exotic pizza with sharp cheeses (feta, cheddar, fontina) it should be okay to eat pizza. (In general, cheeses described as "sharp" are the most dangerous ones.) Ricotta cheese, cottage cheese, cream cheese, and "pasteurized process cheese food" (American cheese -- the cheesiest kind) are okay as well. In regard to the intermediately-aged cheeses, I personally had no problem with jack or brie in moderation. I would be careful if you're going to try this, though, and it's not something I'm willing to say is definitely safe.
OTHER DAIRY PRODUCTS, such as milk, yogurt, and sour cream, are generally safe as long as they are fresh.
SOY FOODS are controversial: one sample of soy sauce was reported to have quite a lot of tyramine in it, but there aren't any documented interactions. My experience has been that a little bit of soy sauce is okay. I would avoid other soy products, such as soy milk and tofu. The Taiwanese dish called "stinky tofu" is probably right out.
Similarly, SAUERKRAUT has been found to contain a large amount of tyramine in some analyses, but there aren't any reactions documented that were associated with sauerkraut.
PROTEIN-CONTAINING FOODS that have passed the expiration date or that may have been stored improperly should be avoided. Fresh milk, meat, etc. are okay. One exception that I make, just because there have been so many problems reported with it, is LIVER; it seems possible that the proteins in liver are especially readily broken down to tyramine (perhaps they include more tyrosine than other proteins do, or perhaps the bacteria that turn tyrosine into tyramine are fond of liver).
Certain AGED MEATS, such as salami, bologna, and some sausages, may be problematic. Err on the side of caution. Some telltale words to look for are "aged," "smoked," "air-dried," and "fermented."
PICKLED HERRING itself isn't a problem, just don't eat the brine (yuck!).
To many people's relief, CHOCOLATE is fine. (If my experience with carb cravings on phenelzine is any indication, it's fine in *huge* amounts!)
Some miscellaneous peculiar foods, such as FAVA BEAN PODS and BANANA PEELS, also cause problems. Shouldn't be a major issue for most people. Watch out for Middle Eastern cuisine, which sometimes contains fava beans. MISO SOUP and other Oriental soup stocks have also been reported to cause problems.
I hope that people find this helpful. As I said, I can provide a list of references if anyone is interested.
-elizabeth"
Posted by gardenergirl on April 20, 2007, at 10:47:43
In reply to Re: MAOI users - What in the heck do you eat??!! » esokev, posted by Jedi on April 20, 2007, at 2:40:01
I agree with Jedi, and Elizabeth's post is also very helpful. I relied on it when I first started Nardil. The diet is something to take seriously, and it's there because there are real physiological reactions with real adverse consequences. The restrictions developed as these reactions occurred. They are in place now not to limit the use of MAOI's, but rather to prevent hypertensive crises, a preventable occurrence if you have the information you need.
But even with the restrictions, there's plenty to eat. It does take paying more attention, especially when eating out or eating someone else's cooking. Pot lucks are especially difficult, and I often eat a snack beforehand so I don't have to go tracking everyone down to ask them what they brought and what's in it. Still, you learn to recognize generally safe foods. I admit, I do wish I could sample the "world's best macaroni and cheese" that someone brings to a party I go to every year. Everyone raves about it, and I can't have it. :(
About yeast extract...it's something used to bind spices and seasonings in processed food. I first avoided it altogether, but you're right, that limits a lot of processed foods. I eat things with it in it now, but only if it's one of the minor ingredients, as in towards the end of the list of ingredients on a package. (They are listed in order from highest amount to lowest amount). Yeast extract is highest in things like vegemite and marmite, so those are off-limits, which frankly, is not a problem for me.
It takes more effort, especially at first, but it's pretty routine for me now.
And to add to the OTC cold medicine thing...it's mainly meds with decongestants, especially pseudoephedrine. Most antihistamines are fine, so look for a package with that, but not a decongestant. If you do get a bad head cold or other sinus thing, there is a decongestant you can take: guaifensin (found in Robitussin and Mucinex).
Good luck.
Namaste
gg
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 3:03:46
In reply to Re: MAOI users - What in the heck do you eat??!!, posted by gardenergirl on April 20, 2007, at 10:47:43
Stay away from cheeses, soy sauce and all OTC meds.
Otherwise, eat anything you like (Elizabeth's list is good) and if you feel like you might have violated one of the restrictions, take your blood pressure.
I would guess 80-percent of ppl who fear taking Nardil do so because of the over-rated diet fears, which is a shame bec it has helped so many.
PS I actually eat cheese and soy sauce in small moderations (as do many others) but dont follow me.
Posted by djmmm on April 21, 2007, at 7:59:22
In reply to The MAOI diet is a joke, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 3:03:46
> Stay away from cheeses, soy sauce and all OTC meds.
>
> Otherwise, eat anything you like (Elizabeth's list is good) and if you feel like you might have violated one of the restrictions, take your blood pressure.
>
> I would guess 80-percent of ppl who fear taking Nardil do so because of the over-rated diet fears, which is a shame bec it has helped so many.
>
> PS I actually eat cheese and soy sauce in small moderations (as do many others) but dont follow me.I couldn't agree more! I haven't had to change my diet at all. When this "diet" was created, it was designed to inclued EVERY possible food/drink containing tyramine or other pressor amines. This does not mean that everything that contains pressors will give you problems. In fact, most of the food on the list contains very little tyramine.
My advice... east sensibly... stay away from overconsuming alcohol-- have a glass of wine, not a bottle! and don't eat the entire 8 oz package of cheese (who does that anyway?) Don't eat an entire pepperoni pizza, etc, etc.
We need to start a comprehensive list of food/medications people have had bad reactions to, and a list of food/drugs that people have safely combined with MAOIs.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 12:23:22
In reply to Re: The MAOI diet is a joke, posted by djmmm on April 21, 2007, at 7:59:22
All of the drug interactions are what cause the majority of Nardil problems.
Eat and be merry. Michael
Posted by FredPotter on April 21, 2007, at 20:08:08
In reply to BUT stay away from the OTC drugs, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 12:23:22
I agree. I drink wine and bottled beer and eat mild cheese like Edam but not my favourite blue cheeses. Not Marmite either (yeast extract). Also I find I can live without banana skins
Posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 1:56:28
In reply to BUT stay away from the OTC drugs, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 12:23:22
Given that it is well known which OTC meds to avoid,
a blanket statement to avoid OTC meds goes too far.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 22, 2007, at 5:09:58
In reply to Re: BUT stay away from the OTC drugs, posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 1:56:28
Posted by FredPotter on April 22, 2007, at 18:16:17
In reply to Re: BUT stay away from the OTC drugs, posted by notfred on April 22, 2007, at 1:56:28
I have a very knowledgeable pharmacist who will warn me, as he knows what I take. If not he has some software he can run to check for interactions. And he doesn't charge a thing!
Posted by brooke484 on April 22, 2007, at 19:56:55
In reply to The MAOI diet is a joke, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 3:03:46
Does anyone know if you can drink soy milk? I'm probably going to go on Parnate and I need to know if I can still have oatmeal with vanilla soy milk for breakfast. I think I use 2 cups.
Thanks!
Posted by football on April 23, 2007, at 15:34:20
In reply to soy milk?, posted by brooke484 on April 22, 2007, at 19:56:55
> Does anyone know if you can drink soy milk? I'm probably going to go on Parnate and I need to know if I can still have oatmeal with vanilla soy milk for breakfast. I think I use 2 cups.
>
> Thanks!Probably not.
Posted by Honore on April 23, 2007, at 16:59:01
In reply to Re: soy milk?, posted by football on April 23, 2007, at 15:34:20
I'm pretty sure that soy milk isn't allowed with Maois.
Honore
This is the end of the thread.
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