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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gregor on March 27, 2006, at 17:21:48
Yeah for Nardil. For the first time in my life (at least since I was 12), I am fairly comfortable in my own skin. I can talk to people without brutal obsession, I am more assertive, and I feel A LOT better. I feel warmer and more positive. I have a lot of hope for my future. My anxiety, both social and general, is a lot lot less. I have only been on the med for 3 weeks, and it just keeps getting better. Previously, I had been on a variety of SSRIs with no major effect like this. This is amazing. Praise God. Anyone have similar Nardil/MAOI experiences?
Posted by TylerJ on March 27, 2006, at 18:05:01
In reply to Great Nardil experience, posted by Gregor on March 27, 2006, at 15:37:22
> Yeah for Nardil. For the first time in my life (at least since I was 12), I am fairly comfortable in my own skin. I can talk to people without brutal obsession, I am more assertive, and I feel A LOT better. I feel warmer and more positive. I have a lot of hope for my future. My anxiety, both social and general, is a lot lot less. I have only been on the med for 3 weeks, and it just keeps getting better. Previously, I had been on a variety of SSRIs with no major effect like this. This is amazing. Praise God. Anyone have similar Nardil/MAOI experiences?
Oh yea...MAOI MUSCLE!!! Great post, I'm very happy for you, and yes, I am currently having the same kind of response with Parnate-it's awesome! I too Praise God for these wonderful drugs. My life has never been better and I'm 47 yrs. old. MAOI's definitely ROCK!!
Tyler
Posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2006, at 21:28:58
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » Gregor, posted by TylerJ on March 27, 2006, at 18:05:01
Look for Ace the Nardil Champs posts!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by JaclinHyde on March 27, 2006, at 22:09:05
In reply to Great Nardil experience, posted by Gregor on March 27, 2006, at 15:37:22
This is taken from the book "You Mean I Don't Have To Feel This Way?" by a mom whose daughter ran out of options and was put on Nardil...
"A month after she began treatment, the depression that had ben putting her lower and lower lifted. Actually the medications effect on her seemed almost magical. Renewed energy, renewed spirit, and a positive confident attitude in her relations with others replaced her old feelings of anxious self-doubt. Remarkably, the turn about occurred within several weeks-virtuallyas soon s the medication started working. Her negative, fearful attitudes fell away so immediately, so totally it was clear that the drug was responsible. It had rebalanced the chemicals in her brain."
Her daughter was an artist who hadn't produced anything since her depression and her anxiety hit her. Her mom said this...
"Gabrielle knew that the medication had built to a therapeutic level when something bizarre happened. She was awakened in the middle of the night by an extraordinary dream-a series of huge, brightly colored abstract paintings. She was so excited by the dream pictures that she woke her sister in search of a pen. The shapes and colors of the dream paintings were so compelling that she wanted to describe them so as not to forget them."
Thought you would all find this interesting.
JH
Posted by jedi on March 28, 2006, at 1:33:28
In reply to Great Nardil experience, posted by Gregor on March 27, 2006, at 15:37:22
Gregor,
When MAOIs work it can be like switching on the light. It usually takes several weeks at a therapeutic dose, but it really can be that sudden of a change. I have not had this experience on any other kind of antidepressant. My depression is atypical with social anxiety. I believe that MAOIs should be 2nd tier for this kind of depression and not a last resort. Nardil is the one that worked for me also.
Wishing you continued success,
Jedi> Yeah for Nardil. For the first time in my life (at least since I was 12), I am fairly comfortable in my own skin. I can talk to people without brutal obsession, I am more assertive, and I feel A LOT better. I feel warmer and more positive. I have a lot of hope for my future. My anxiety, both social and general, is a lot lot less. I have only been on the med for 3 weeks, and it just keeps getting better. Previously, I had been on a variety of SSRIs with no major effect like this. This is amazing. Praise God. Anyone have similar Nardil/MAOI experiences?
Posted by TylerJ on March 28, 2006, at 5:50:04
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by JaclinHyde on March 27, 2006, at 22:09:05
> This is taken from the book "You Mean I Don't Have To Feel This Way?" by a mom whose daughter ran out of options and was put on Nardil...
>
> "A month after she began treatment, the depression that had ben putting her lower and lower lifted. Actually the medications effect on her seemed almost magical. Renewed energy, renewed spirit, and a positive confident attitude in her relations with others replaced her old feelings of anxious self-doubt. Remarkably, the turn about occurred within several weeks-virtuallyas soon s the medication started working. Her negative, fearful attitudes fell away so immediately, so totally it was clear that the drug was responsible. It had rebalanced the chemicals in her brain."
>
> Her daughter was an artist who hadn't produced anything since her depression and her anxiety hit her. Her mom said this...
>
> "Gabrielle knew that the medication had built to a therapeutic level when something bizarre happened. She was awakened in the middle of the night by an extraordinary dream-a series of huge, brightly colored abstract paintings. She was so excited by the dream pictures that she woke her sister in search of a pen. The shapes and colors of the dream paintings were so compelling that she wanted to describe them so as not to forget them."
>
> Thought you would all find this interesting.
>
> JH
That is so cool! I'm definitely going to buy that book. Thanks for sharing. :)Tyler
Posted by JaclinHyde on March 28, 2006, at 8:05:47
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » JaclinHyde, posted by TylerJ on March 28, 2006, at 5:50:04
You know think about this for a minute. How many other drugs stir such loyalty as these? I am not saying that the others don't work for some people, I am just saying that people on MAOI's become passionate advocates of this type of medication.
Shouldn't we have a parade of some sort? ;-)
Oh and by the way you can get a used copy of this book at amazon for .45 at the moment.
JH
Posted by JaclinHyde on March 28, 2006, at 8:17:44
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by JaclinHyde on March 28, 2006, at 8:05:47
Whoops, I take that back...Amazon has it used for .01 ;-)
That even tempts me and I already have the book!
JH
Posted by natedog539 on April 20, 2007, at 17:23:33
In reply to Great Nardil experience, posted by Gregor on March 27, 2006, at 15:37:22
It is great to hear about your Nardil experience. I was wondering if you are on the new nardil and if you are on the pfizer kind.
Posted by FredPotter on April 20, 2007, at 17:45:25
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » JaclinHyde, posted by TylerJ on March 28, 2006, at 5:50:04
Yes that book's good, like an oasis in a desert of nonsense books. I've been taking the new formulation of Nardil for 4.5 weeks. After a couple of weeks I became pro-social and assertive, but that got me into trouble with my Dr. Now after 4.5 weeks I feel as bad as ever. It's been 45mg a day so perhaps dose too low. I'm putting it up to 60. I might also add I came off Effexor abruptly 7 days before starting Nardil
Posted by natedog539 on April 20, 2007, at 17:49:45
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » TylerJ, posted by FredPotter on April 20, 2007, at 17:45:25
trouble with you doc? explain
Posted by FredPotter on April 20, 2007, at 20:34:15
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by natedog539 on April 20, 2007, at 17:49:45
I became assertive and told him the statin drugs I was on could be replaced by walnuts. He hopped around like a mad thing. I maybe wrong of course, but it seems that statins can cause all sorts of dire side-effects inc mental ones
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2007, at 20:54:38
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » natedog539, posted by FredPotter on April 20, 2007, at 20:34:15
Fred I don't know about mental side effects but of others. I think the walnuts are at least healthy. Love Phillipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 21, 2007, at 3:14:44
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by natedog539 on April 20, 2007, at 17:23:33
Posted by rvanson on April 25, 2007, at 18:19:55
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience » natedog539, posted by FredPotter on April 20, 2007, at 20:34:15
> I became assertive and told him the statin drugs I was on could be replaced by walnuts. He hopped around like a mad thing. I maybe wrong of course, but it seems that statins can cause all sorts of dire side-effects inc mental ones<<
Good for you!
Lipitor is a killer medication with no proof that it stops heart disease or strokes.
Eli Lilly is making a killing by selling this poison to an unsuspecting public.
Here is a good read on statins and the harm they do:
Posted by stevezen on April 25, 2007, at 23:27:41
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by rvanson on April 25, 2007, at 18:19:55
hey everyone!
sowwy, I don't mean to put a damper on your MAOI parade. been on the ol' parnate half way through week 6, now at 50mg's and nothing doing :(
in fact, if anything it's making my depression worse! is that possible?
it'll put me to sleep straight after I've been to bed for say 9 or 10 hours!
the lack of energy and motivation is just astounding to me. after my second dose yesterday, I had to sleep for 5 hours, but then it was on an empty stomach, and I upped the dose from 40 to 50 just on monday. but I just don't get it :(
sad how I pinned so much hope on parnate doing the biz, but I just feel weak, dizzy, tired, cold. these symtoms don't just last a few hours either, I kinda thought parnate was only active 2-4 hours or so. after my second dose, I usually get all these symptoms for about 10 hours at least!
if anyone's got any encouraging words I'd really appreciate it, still I'll give it the full two month trail and try and work my way up to 60 - 70 mg's.
thanks for listening.
Posted by Jedi on April 26, 2007, at 2:06:52
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by stevezen on April 25, 2007, at 23:27:41
> hey everyone!
> sowwy, I don't mean to put a damper on your MAOI parade. been on the ol' parnate half way through week 6, now at 50mg's and nothing doing :(
> in fact, if anything it's making my depression worse! is that possible? ...Hi,
I've been at 80mg for a month and I still have my bad days. In fact I've had about three in a row. I've been on Nardil for most of ten years so maybe the side effects for me are not as bad as they would be if I started Parnate with no experience with MAOIs. It is difficult to find the dosage that your body needs and then stick with it for six or eight weeks, especially if the side effects are bad.Dr. Goldman of Depression Central writes that the biggest reason tranylcypromine doesn't work for a patient is not a high enough dosage for a long enough time. He also uses stimulants to augment tranylcypromine.
Hang in there,
Jedi
Pharmacopsychiatry. 1989 Jan;22(1):21-5.
High dose tranylcypromine therapy for refractory depression.Amsterdam JD, Berwish NJ.
Department of Psychiatry, School of Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.A substantial number of depressed patients will experience a chronic, treatment-resistant affective disorder. Aggressive treatment of these patients with various drug combinations, unconventional antidepressants, or electroconvulsive therapy has met with only partial success. There remains a pressing need to identify more effective methods of utilizing "first-line" antidepressant agents to achieve a more rapid therapeutic action. To this end, we initiated a study using high doses of the MAO inhibitor tranylcypromine, at a range of 90 mg to 170 mg daily, in seven refractory depressed patients who had failed to respond to at least three prior treatments regimens. Four out of seven subjects (57%), who had failed to respond to a mean of 8 +/- 5 prior treatment, had a complete response, and one patient had a partial response to high dose tranylcypromine. The mean SD maximum tranylcypromine dose for the responders was 112 +/- 16 mg daily (range 90 mg to 130 mg). Response did not appear to be a function of severity of illness, duration of present episode, or the number of prior treatment failures. Overall, the side effect profile was favorable, and no "cheese reactions" were encountered. These observations are of clinical significance and suggest the need for further controlled studies using high doses of tranylcypromine.
Posted by stevezen on April 26, 2007, at 6:49:57
In reply to MAOI Parade, posted by Jedi on April 26, 2007, at 2:06:52
thanks for the post Jedi.
yeah I figured parnate was very dose specific, but kind of had the inclination to work my way up to that dose. form you say in your post, I get the impression you actually started on a fairly high dose, maybe even 80mg's.
is it okay to do this?
I've been working my way up since 10mg's!!!
so basically what your saying is until I hit that 'sweet dose' that's when my 8 week trail begins!
can I ask, if your new to MAOI's is it okay to start at a higher dose, say 30 or 40mg's?
or even just now, should I jump from say 50mg's to 70 or 80?
many thanks!
Posted by Jedi on April 26, 2007, at 13:29:36
In reply to Re: MAOI Parade, posted by stevezen on April 26, 2007, at 6:49:57
> thanks for the post Jedi.
> yeah I figured parnate was very dose specific, but kind of had the inclination to work my way up to that dose. form you say in your post, I get the impression you actually started on a fairly high dose, maybe even 80mg's.
> is it okay to do this?Stevzen,
It is always better to titrate the dosage. If you go up too fast the side effects can be much worse. From experience, mostly with Nardil, I know that I need a large degree of MAO inhibition for the medication to work. If 80mg does not work, I'm prepared to go up further(maybe 100mg) and add a small dose of stimulant.
> I've been working my way up since 10mg's!!!
> so basically what your saying is until I hit that 'sweet dose' that's when my 8 week trail begins!That is the trouble with most all of these medications, except maybe the stimulants. It takes so much time. From my reading, you have to titrate the dose, but the time spent at the lower dosages does very little to inhibit MAO. Thus, you need to get up to about 90% MAO Inhibition, then the clock starts.
> can I ask, if your new to MAOI's is it okay to start at a higher dose, say 30 or 40mg's?
> or even just now, should I jump from say 50mg's to 70 or 80?
> many thanks!Don't go up too fast. I know it is hard when you are hurting bad, but skipping titration of the medication is not an option. If a person is hospitialized, where any problems can be handled immediately, some fudging is allowed. But as an outpatient, going up slow and down slow is always better.
When I recently made the switch from Nardil to Parnate, I probably went a little too fast. But, everytime I had been off of Nardil in the past ten years, the major depression returned. I wanted to get off Nardil and back on Parnate before the depression had a chance to return.
My schedule went like this:
2 weeks to titrate down from 75mg Nardil to nothing
Raised my clonazepam from 1 to 2mg to help with the increased anxiety
6 days off all MAOIs
2 days at 10mg Parnate
4 days at 20mg Parnate
4 days at 30mg Parnate
4 days at 40mg Parnate
7 days at 50mg Parnate
5 days at 60mg Parnate
5 days at 70mg Parnate
So far, 28 days at 80mg Parnate
This worked for me, with no side effects other than the daytime somnolence. I have been using 25mg of Seroquel for nightly sleep.
Good luck and take care,
Jedi
Posted by FredPotter on April 26, 2007, at 18:58:59
In reply to Re: Great Nardil experience, posted by stevezen on April 25, 2007, at 23:27:41
I'm sorry to hear it. I'm having a rough time on Nardil. After 5 weeks my depression is worse - AND I'm fat!
Posted by stevezen on April 27, 2007, at 2:06:42
In reply to Re: MAOI Parade » stevezen, posted by Jedi on April 26, 2007, at 13:29:36
thanks so much for your posts jedi and fredpotter.
yeah, I suppose it's just a case of riding this thing out as best we can. i'm finding though, little obvious things like not taking the pills on an empty stomach can help. oh, and waiting at least 6 hours between the first and second dose.
jedi, you seem to have sussed a fairly workable schedule there! thanks for the insight, it gives me a rough idea when to increase another 10mg's.
so much appreciated!
fredpotter, omgosh, yeah I'm hoping Nardil kicks in for you really soon and all the benefits that come with. sorry to hear about the weight gain though, all the adverse side effects seem to run rampant with MAOI before the benefits finally kick in. it's just hard to imagine what it's actually going to do once MAOI inhibition starts to set in. I'm sure you've all experienced that feeling of being so low, that nothing in the world can bring you back. the Parnate side effects just seem to compound this feeling, but I'm gonna stick with it, and fingers crossed the positive benefits will come to all who are still waiting this out.
best of luck everyone, hang in there.
This is the end of the thread.
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