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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pill-form on February 10, 2007, at 15:21:15
Hi guys, I have a prob which I wonder anyone else have experienced.
I seem to get worse from agents like folate, b12, sam-e and TMG. Although Im indicated for folate and b12 because of high forminoglutamic acid.I have used them all in the past with some benefits maybe except from folate.
I seem nowadays to get substantially more obsessive thoughts even when just taking these for a couple of days. Hard to shut the mind off..mind is churning on some thoughts and its so annoying.
Anyone know why this is?
Phil
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2007, at 21:46:42
In reply to increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvits, posted by pill-form on February 10, 2007, at 15:21:15
Funny I'm finding I'm less tolerant to vitamins and the first to go were the B's too activating. Love Phillipa
Posted by blueberry1 on February 11, 2007, at 13:47:20
In reply to increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvits, posted by pill-form on February 10, 2007, at 15:21:15
The common assumption is that lots of B vitamins and such are good for everyone. As if one shoe size fits everyone.
I don't know much about this stuff, but a specialty center for psychiatric treatment called the Pfeiffer center discovered some basic key underpinnings of psychiatric disorders. They test for them before beginning treatment. Among the usual culprits...
Overmethylated (these people must avoid B vitamins)
Undermethylated (these people need high dose B vitamins)
Histimine excess
Histimine deficiency
Copper overload (very common, avoid vitamins with copper in them)
Toxic metal overload
And a few others I forgot.There is no proof I am aware of that shows B vitamins are good for psychiatry. Only that sometimes people with symptoms show low levels of the vitamins. Some people improve a lot with vitamins, some don't, and some get new uncomfortable symptoms. As we are all very different, the same vitamins could be exactly the opposite of what someone else needs.
I've taken high dose B vitamins and noticed I was wired, edgy, tense, worsened mood. My doc swore B12 shots would be great for me. The next day after the shot I woke up in total terror, almost an insane panic feeling. It lasted several days. SAMe was weird for me too. I still take B vitamins, but in modest doses.
Posted by Jay on February 11, 2007, at 17:18:09
In reply to increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvits, posted by pill-form on February 10, 2007, at 15:21:15
Yes, another 'me to' here. I had very, very horrible reactions to B vits, *especially* B12, Folate, and Niacin.
I have also read of B12 causing 'manic' symptoms. Niacin was just 'horrid', esp. with blood sugar. I'd go from starvation to making me feel like I could eat a small town, and I also had the worst headaches and sorethroat on that stuff. Folate made me feel 'wired', like a bull in a china-shop.
I haven't touched any of that stuff in years, thankfully, and actually, medications never felt as bad regarding side-effects...and I've been on A LOT!Best wishes..
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2007, at 18:29:26
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvits » pill-form, posted by Jay on February 11, 2007, at 17:18:09
So I wasn't imagining it then. But with them water soluble supposed to excrete what your body doesn't need. And when my lyme's was active my Bl2 was very high don't know what it is now though. And so many people lacking energy get Bl2 shots. Thanks any others that make anxiety worse? I also found that the omegas didn't help depression. Love Phillipa
Posted by valene on February 12, 2007, at 16:38:56
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvits, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2007, at 18:29:26
Yes! Include me in the group. Also when I was reading the anti-benzo forums, I saw many people who were tapering benzos and all the B vitamins revved them up so much they could not tolerate them. I think they are too activating for me anway.
Val
> So I wasn't imagining it then. But with them water soluble supposed to excrete what your body doesn't need. And when my lyme's was active my Bl2 was very high don't know what it is now though. And so many people lacking energy get Bl2 shots. Thanks any others that make anxiety worse? I also found that the omegas didn't help depression. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on February 14, 2007, at 17:45:11
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvit, posted by valene on February 12, 2007, at 16:38:56
I tried low flushing niacin at one point as an anxiolytic experiment and it ended up making excercise uncomfortable, flushing, crankiness, and in general a complete opposite of what it is touted as.
Perhaps it works for some people.
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2007, at 18:35:22
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvit, posted by yxibow on February 14, 2007, at 17:45:11
> I tried low flushing niacin at one point as an anxiolytic experiment and it ended up making excercise uncomfortable, flushing, crankiness, and in general a complete opposite of what it is touted as.
>
> Perhaps it works for some people.Sorry, but you tried the wrong stuff, methinks. Low-flush niacin is usually inositol hexanicotinate. The anxiolytic form of B-3 is niacinamide (old name nicotinamide).
Lar
Posted by yxibow on February 15, 2007, at 2:16:26
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvit » yxibow, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2007, at 18:35:22
> > I tried low flushing niacin at one point as an anxiolytic experiment and it ended up making excercise uncomfortable, flushing, crankiness, and in general a complete opposite of what it is touted as.
> >
> > Perhaps it works for some people.
>
> Sorry, but you tried the wrong stuff, methinks. Low-flush niacin is usually inositol hexanicotinate. The anxiolytic form of B-3 is niacinamide (old name nicotinamide).
>
> Lar
>
>I meant sustained release, which can be low flushing.
It was nicotinic acid, which is also known as B-3
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 15, 2007, at 9:36:00
In reply to Re: increased obsessiveness on folate n other Bvit » Larry Hoover, posted by yxibow on February 15, 2007, at 2:16:26
> > > I tried low flushing niacin at one point as an anxiolytic experiment and it ended up making excercise uncomfortable, flushing, crankiness, and in general a complete opposite of what it is touted as.
> > >
> > > Perhaps it works for some people.
> >
> > Sorry, but you tried the wrong stuff, methinks. Low-flush niacin is usually inositol hexanicotinate. The anxiolytic form of B-3 is niacinamide (old name nicotinamide).
> >
> > Lar
> >
> >
>
> I meant sustained release, which can be low flushing.
>
> It was nicotinic acid, which is also known as B-3So, it was a physical slow release, rather than a slowly hydrolyzed bond, but it was the wrong stuff for anxiolysis.
Nicotinic acid, a.k.a. niacin, triggers histamine release, and is stimulating at adrenoceptors. Nicotinamide, a.k.a. niacinamide, inhibits mast cell degranulation (antihistamine), and mildly agonizes GABA-A receptors. It also changes the conformation of the GABA receptor, enhancing natural GABA action.
Niacinamide is also one step closer to being converted to NADH, essential for mitochondrial energy production.
Some people, unfortunately, flush on niacinamide, due to rapid conversion to niacin. But most do not. I know people who experience anxiolysis at 100 mg, but some need 500. So long as the daily dose dose not exceed 2000 mg, there is no risk of liver toxicity.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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