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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/chronic/faking.html
"Perhaps the most important lesson is that, while most people visiting support groups are honest, all members must balance empathy with circumspection. Group members should be especially careful about basing their own health care decisions on uncorroborated information supplied in groups. When Munchausen by Internet seems likely, it is best to have a small number of established members gently, empathically, and privately question the author of the dubious posts. Even though the typical response is vehement denial regardless of the strength of the evidence, the author typically will eventually disappear from the group. Remaining members may need to enlist help in processing their feelings, ending any bickering or blaming, and refocusing the group on its original laudable goal."
Posted by sdb on November 24, 2006, at 7:48:31
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
Karl Friedrich Hieronymus Freiherr von Münchhausen - diagnosis is difficult. I remember too many cases of paying not enough attention for patients seeking essentially for help.
sdb
> http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/chronic/faking.html
>
> "Perhaps the most important lesson is that, while most people visiting support groups are honest, all members must balance empathy with circumspection. Group members should be especially careful about basing their own health care decisions on uncorroborated information supplied in groups. When Munchausen by Internet seems likely, it is best to have a small number of established members gently, empathically, and privately question the author of the dubious posts. Even though the typical response is vehement denial regardless of the strength of the evidence, the author typically will eventually disappear from the group. Remaining members may need to enlist help in processing their feelings, ending any bickering or blaming, and refocusing the group on its original laudable goal."
Posted by linkadge on November 24, 2006, at 8:37:45
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet, posted by sdb on November 24, 2006, at 7:48:31
Doesn't munchausens usually fake *non-psychatric* problems in order to indirectly get help for a psychiatric problem?
How many people with manchausens actually fake psychiatric problems?
Linkadge
Posted by Toph on November 24, 2006, at 8:50:43
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
Two dozen cases is a virtual epidemic.
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 11:47:43
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet, posted by Toph on November 24, 2006, at 8:50:43
My understanding is it's all types of illnesses not just psychiatric. But that's from TV. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:04:43
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
I was pondering that topic recently, too.
gg
Posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 16:32:46
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
I would not get caught up in the word Munchausen or Munchausen by Internet. Dr Feldman coined the term but I would not call it an official Dx.
It is probably better called "factitious disorder", a well used term. The internet does make it easier to pull off. It is not uncommon on internet sites.
For decades, physicians have known about so-called factitious disorder, better known in its severe form as Munchausen syndrome (Feldman & Ford, 1995). Here, people willfully fake or produce illness to command attention, obtain lenience, act out anger, or control others. Though feeling well, they may bound into hospitals, crying out or clutching their chests with dramatic flair. Once admitted, they send the staff on one medical goose chase after another. If suspicions are raised or the ruse is uncovered, they quickly move on to a new hospital, town, state, or in the worst cases — country. Like traveling performers, they simply play their role again. I coined the terms "virtual factitious disorder" (Feldman, Bibby, & Crites, 1998) and "Munchausen by Internet" (Feldman, 2000) to refer to people who simplify this "real-life" process by carrying out their deceptions online. Instead of seeking care at numerous hospitals, they gain new audiences merely by clicking from one support group to another. Under the guise of illness, they can also join multiple groups simultaneously. Using different names and accounts, they can even sign on to one group as a stricken patient, his frantic mother, and his distraught son all to make the ruse utterly convincing.
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 17:57:25
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet » notfred, posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:04:43
This doesn't have anything to do with me does it? Do people think this of me? It feels like people don't believe I have an eating disorder.
I'm so upset.
Dr. Bob, Larry Hoover, Poet, AuntieMel, Pseudoname, 10derHeart, Fallsfall, Canadagirl, you all meet me in real life. I'm a real person with real problems. I'm not making stuff up. I'm so upset.
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 19:59:53
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 17:57:25
Deneb why do you think it's about you? I seen numberous shows of Mothers bringing their children into hospitals saying they were ill and meanwhile they were making their children ill. Love Phillipa ps are there two kinds?
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 25, 2006, at 21:06:37
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 19:59:53
My understanding is that there are two kinds - one is Munchausen, which is where a person constantly seeks out medical attention for themselves, for illnesses sometimes self-inflicted, in order to get attention, and the other is Muchausen by proxy, where a mother (usually?) seeks out medical attention for their child, often as a result of the mother making the child ill in order to get attention. I may not have explained that right, but I think I have the general idea.
> Deneb why do you think it's about you? I seen numberous shows of Mothers bringing their children into hospitals saying they were ill and meanwhile they were making their children ill. Love Phillipa ps are there two kinds?
Posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2006, at 22:11:26
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet » Phillipa, posted by dreamboat_annie on November 25, 2006, at 21:06:37
Thanks so by proxy is the difference. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on November 26, 2006, at 6:51:56
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
what an interesting post...
Posted by 10derHeart on November 26, 2006, at 13:20:54
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 17:57:25
Hi, Deneb.
Sorry I haven't been around much. IRL stuff.
Yes, you are a real person (one I like very much, BTW :-)) Yes, you have real problems, and I hate that you've been having such a hard time lately.
Take a deep breath. I don't see anything in notfred's post to make me think he was talking about you or any other particular poster here.
Perhaps it's just an interesting topic?
Posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 10:41:37
In reply to Munchausen by Internet, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 0:47:43
Munchhausen by proxy might be more accurate when the "relatives" start showing up and posting as mentioned in the article.
The "caregiver" role some persons on the internet cultivate towards others in the support group is also more like munchausen by proxy (where the caregiver is recieving gratification and praise for her role as caregiver rather than as patient).
People claiming to be professionals also occasionally make appearances with the same resulting dynamic.
I think munchhausen by proxy might be occurring when someone begins to diagnose and insist that someone else is suffering various syndromes or illnesses and makes her attention and support contingent on the other person accepting the "sick" role of her choice. Or maybe not. I don't know. How aware do you think the Munchhausen by proxy has to be of her actions? Not very I don't think. There has to be massive denial I would think.I read an interesting book by a woman who survived a childhood of M by proxy "Sickening". (That might not be the right title-amazon didn't have it)
She was also unaware of what was going on but became in some ways her mother's ally in acting out the role of sick person. She ended up an anorexic and described her own overcoming without much in the way of therapy. Her mother never acknowledged anything at all abnormal in her childhood. Good book but wrenching.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 10:45:11
In reply to Re: Munchausen by Internet, posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 10:41:37
"sickened"
This is the end of the thread.
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