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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by River1924 on July 28, 2006, at 0:33:22
it is like my internal clock is screwed up. I'm most awake from 10 pm to 4 am.
My doctor didn't know if rozerom would help back up my internal clock but he said it couldn't hurt. I want to take it at about midnite and be asleep by 1:30 am.
It does't seem to make me sleepy but the whole next day I feel drowsy.
Think that over time it might help reset my internal clock?
River.
Posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2006, at 11:18:15
In reply to Don't want to be such a night owl..., posted by River1924 on July 28, 2006, at 0:33:22
River I kind of have sort of the same problem. I go to bed at lor 2am and sleep til 11am. Not good.I was thinking that going to bed l5minutes earlier each night and setting an alarm for l5minutes earlier and moving it up might help? Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on July 28, 2006, at 21:24:02
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » River1924, posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2006, at 11:18:15
You could try melatonin, and then bright light in the morning.
Linkadge
Posted by cecilia on July 29, 2006, at 7:56:43
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » River1924, posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2006, at 11:18:15
Can you sleep 15 minutes earlier? I would consider it a miracle if I could actually sleep 2am to 11 am. I usually try to go to bed around 2am but almost never get to sleep before 6 or 7, even with 2 sleeping pills. When I have to be somewhere during the day I set 2 or 3 alarm clocks for 2-3 hous before I have to leave, as it takes at least 2 hours to become functional. When I don't have anything I have to do, I'll sometimes still set my alarm clocks, trying to force myself my body clock to readjust, but usually I can't face the excruciating pain of waking up and turn them off. Getting up early doesn't make it any easier to sleep the next night, even if I only got 2 hours the night before. And when I worked nights and didn't go to bed til 8 or 9am I still couldn't sleep for hours, if I was lucky falling asleep by noon, having to be up again at 4:30. It's a hopeless battle. Cecilia
Posted by River1924 on July 29, 2006, at 11:50:07
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » Phillipa, posted by cecilia on July 29, 2006, at 7:56:43
Well, C...
You may want to look at this: "The Body Clock Guide to Better Health: How to Use Your Body's Natural Clock to Fight Illness and Achieve Maximum Health"
Well, when I started this thread... I was hoping to find a trick for sleep phase problems other than the offical way to readjuct one's chronobiological clock.
Each night one goes to sleep three hours later than the previous night until one ends up going to sleep at the correct time in the next week or 10 ten days. If you have some days off or don't work that might work.
Sometimes, I take the drug provigil prior to sleep so I will wake up with some alertness. Besides sleep apnea, I have non-sleep attack- non cataplectic narcolepsy (aka excessive daytime sleepiness.)
My sleep got off mainly when, after I had 10 phlebotomies to remove ferritin from my blood. It is disorder carried by 1:8 individuals and 1:200 have both genes for it. (There are more but that is another story (and, personally, I don't think they really have a clue about it yer.) Ferritin is a kind of iron (but even anemia doesn't rule out the diagnosis.) My sleep problem was awful prior to that. I was always sleepy. Now, at least, dextroamphetamine and provigil wake me up.
Anyway, stimulants are much more effective (even caffeine) and, by the time, I figured that out... my dextroamphetamine had kept me up until 4 am for too long and now my body kind of thinks that is bedtime.
My other problem is the computer :) It seems I shouldn't turn it one after work at midnite but I find that almost impossible. I don't use a computer at work so when I get home I like to check and mail and surf the web and, oops, 3am.
Ohhh, the problems of affluence. (And I don't really have much money... or sense, it seems.)
R.
Posted by purplesky on July 29, 2006, at 13:45:12
In reply to Don't want to be such a night owl..., posted by River1924 on July 28, 2006, at 0:33:22
I had problems with a dysfunctional sleep schedule for a while (well, I still do). I found out that the best time to go to the Super Walmart was around 4-5 am, because no one is there! I oversleep a lot, and then after oversleeping and napping all day I would end up fully awake at very unusual times. I tried Ambien but it honestly didn't make me feel sleepy, just a little "drunk". My doctor prescribed Seroquel, 100 mg, at what-should-be-my bedtime, and it worked pretty well. It would force me to sleep at the appropriate bedtime, and I would sleep through the night even if I had napped all day and didn't need the sleep. I would wake up 8 hours later with no "hangover" effect like some people report. It didn't take away my tendency to nap the day away, but it did mean that if I had to actually get out of bed in the morning and adhere to a "normal" schedule, I could. I don't know if my experience really helps you any, but good luck with getting back to your schedule!
Posted by cecilia on July 29, 2006, at 19:17:39
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » cecilia, posted by River1924 on July 29, 2006, at 11:50:07
I've read about that going to bed 3 hours later every day trick, though I didn't know they had a whole book about it-seems like it could be condensed into one short paragraph. My problem is that going to bed 3 hours later doesn't mean I'll sleep-I can go to bed a lot more than 3 hours later and still not be able to sleep. Also once you get cycled around to whatever you decide is your correct schedule then what-I'd be even less likely to be able to sleep when it's only 16 hours since I got up instead of 19 and you've got to have absolute will power and never ever allow yourself to sleep in, no matter how little you've slept, or you'll be back where you've started. In theory it seems one could do this any time they wanted without going through a drawn out 2 week resetting schedule, just skip a night's sleep and then go to bed at whatever you decide your new bedtime should be, using as many alarm clocks as necessary to force yourself out of bed at the new designated time every single day no matter how little you've slept. In actuality I just don't have the will-power to drag myself out of bed when I don't have to. Cecilia
Posted by River1924 on July 29, 2006, at 20:23:16
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » River1924, posted by cecilia on July 29, 2006, at 19:17:39
Sorry, I'm not sure if that is even the correct book.
You are correct.
When I mentioned night owl in the title... I wasn't so much using an old cliche' as referring to an article I read (but can find no reference to now (OF course!)) about groups of people "larks", "night owls", and "eagles." We know what night owls are. Larks like to get up early and can hardly stay up past 9 pm. Eagles are considered ideal because they don't seem to be cued as much by external things like light, are flexible, and need less sleep anyway. (High powered execs who travel between timezones and sleep five hours a night or day or just take little naps fall into that category. Or, I work at a nursing home and third shift has all these women who work all night and then, sleep whenever it is convenient, or just nap...day after day, night after night. I don't tolerate that at all. My mental health falls apart.)
I was in Western Europe for 10 weeks about 15 years ago. I think it is a six or seven hour difference. I had not trouble adjusting to the time going there. But when I returned. It tooks weeks for me not to fall asleep standing up at six in the evening. It was very odd. I don't really understand why it was so much harder.
What all this means to say is: I think we are hardwired to some extent. I'm very hardwired as a night owl. My job and shift reflect that. I tried really hard to work "normal hours." Get up at 5:30 a.m. and be at work by seven for several months. I felt horrible the whole time. It messed me up. I'd go to work... be a zombie until 11 am, get home at 3 or 4 pm... and need a nap. (I almost never nap.) I'd wake up and eat a meal and then, it was time for bed. I never adjusted. It was just too unnatural. My body felt like I had gotten up in the middle of the night and never seemed to realize it had really got enough sleep.
I've read about people with a genetic thing who have no flexibility. They wake up at four hours before sunrise or fall asleep at a certain time (almost like a narcoleptic) and can not change it.
I have a little fexiblity. I have fallen asleep at 1 AM (in the past) and have managed to get to the gym and exercise in the late morning. I want to do that again. I haven't figured out how, that's all.
Part of it is psychological... but just part. I've tried to stay up for 36 or 48 hours. I've taken stimulants and drugs for narcolepsy at two or three times the dose but my eyes will get dry around six or seven in the morning and my body must go to sleep if only for an hour or two. For me, no matter what time I manage to go to bed, I fall into my deepest sleep about 7 or 8 am.If I had been an "eagle", I might have tried med school. (Which is crazy even if "eagles" (ie interns) can do it.) But I am who I am.
Later, sorry to go on and on... River.
Posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2006, at 21:35:42
In reply to Re: Don't want to be such a night owl... » cecilia, posted by River1924 on July 29, 2006, at 20:23:16
River I had my husband read your post as he can't understand why I could never get up and work 7-3. Just like you I woke up at llam. And when I got home I napped too. And I tried night shift and thought I'd lose my mind. I lasted around a month. How I don't know. And I too went to Europe and it was easier going than coming back. The jetlag coming back was horrible. I've never found someone with the exact same sleep times and issues as me. Love phillipa
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