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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fuchsia on June 10, 2006, at 1:34:10
Could a mood stabliser allow you to tolerate an antidepressant you couldn't tolerate before?
Before I tried mood stabilisers I went through a lot of antidepressants and eventually I became sensitized to them in some way. All of the last lot I tried gave me akathisia and or other neurological side effects; at smaller and smaller doses.
Now I'm on Lamictal and while the stabilising effect is good the antidepressant effect is petering out and I'm afraid to try adding an antidepressant since they seem to have made me neurologically fragile. I know I'm lumping them all in together here but just about all of them so far have been pretty neurologically bad for me.
I do wonder if anyone on a mood stabiliser found they could tolerate any antidepressants they couldn't tolerate without the mood stabiliser?
Fuchsia
Posted by med_empowered on June 11, 2006, at 12:51:35
In reply to Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effect?, posted by fuchsia on June 10, 2006, at 1:34:10
I think maybe you should try something going without an antidepressant. Maybe you could up the Lamictal or add another mood stabilizer? You could also try something like BuSpar or Provigil or a traditional stimulant like Dexedrine, Ritalin, Adderall, etc. to help with some of the depressive symptoms.
Posted by CEK on June 12, 2006, at 12:11:03
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by med_empowered on June 11, 2006, at 12:51:35
I was on Lamictal and Zoloft, then on Lamictal and Prozac and I still had the akathisia from the ADs.
Posted by fuchsia on June 13, 2006, at 1:35:27
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by CEK on June 12, 2006, at 12:11:03
> I was on Lamictal and Zoloft, then on Lamictal and Prozac and I still had the akathisia from the ADs.
Thanks CEK, that's interesting to know.
Posted by fuchsia on June 13, 2006, at 1:55:29
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by med_empowered on June 11, 2006, at 12:51:35
> I think maybe you should try something going without an antidepressant.
Med_empowered, I think you're right.
>Maybe you could up the Lamictal or add another mood stabilizer? You could also try something like BuSpar or Provigil or a traditional stimulant like Dexedrine, Ritalin, Adderall, etc. to help with some of the depressive symptoms.
I've gone up to 400mg with the Lamictal and I'm not sure if the last 50 mg made much difference.The BuSpar might be my next option; I still have to read about that one. I remember something about it being good for anxiety and I'm very anxious these days.
I had Dex before and it was good for a while and then it made me worse. I never combined it with Lamictal before but maybe it won't help to go back to it either.
Fuchsia
Posted by CEK on June 13, 2006, at 8:53:21
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe » med_empowered, posted by fuchsia on June 13, 2006, at 1:55:29
Fuchia, I'm not trying to shoot down any of your thoughts on beating the akathisia side effect, but I just wanted to tell you of my experience. A couple of years ago when I was on Effexor and eventually was up to 150mg, my GP started to ween me off of it because of memory loss, feeling like a zombie and bad weight gain over 2 months.(I gained 40lbs in 2 months on this dose.) She added Buspar to help take the edge off of the withdrawl. It helped. A year or so later when my anxiety was getting bad, she gave me some more Buspar, this time it made my anxiety worse. I don't know why it changed for me. It may help you. Someone had posted on here before about a medicine that helped counter effect the akathisia side effect that some people experience with certain meds, but I don't remeber what the med was. Try searching the arcives by typing in akathisia and see if that helps. Med Empowered knows his stuff and I trust what he says. I'm going to talk to my pdoc on Monday about adding Provigil to my Lamictal and see if he'll let me do it to help this treatment resistant depression. I've read up on Provigil after reading his post and according to what I read, it's suppose to be one of the better stimulants. It's suppose to last 12-15 hours. But they say that some doctors won't prescribe it for anything other than certain sleep disorders. If he doesn't want to let me try it I'm going to ask for one of the other stimulants. Good luck trying to find something to make it stop. It's absolutely horrible! I had it with the Prozac, Zoloft and Seroquel and Abilify and I thought I would lose my mind if it didn't stop. It would take me forever to go to sleep at night because instead of restless legs, I would get restless arms and could not be still. I would have to rock and shake my arms around all the time. I felt like there was a demon inside me fighting to come out or something. I just wanted to climb the walls! I feel for you and hope you find relief soon. If it gets too bad, I would call your doctor and see what he says to do. That's what I ended up doing after I went to the emergency room because of it. I was getting 3 hours sleep a night and felt like I was losing it. The ER gave me a muscle relaxer and an Ambien and sent me home and told me to call my pdoc in the morning. The meds the pdoc gave me didn't help at all and I still couldn't sleep. When I called my pdoc the next day, he stopped the Zoloft all together. He had already lowered my dose and that didn't help the akathisia. Maybe you need to try a different med. Good luck. Hope you feel better soon. Love, CEK
Posted by Karen44 on June 13, 2006, at 23:29:19
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe » med_empowered, posted by fuchsia on June 13, 2006, at 1:55:29
> > I think maybe you should try something going without an antidepressant.
>
> Med_empowered, I think you're right.
>
>
> >Maybe you could up the Lamictal or add another mood stabilizer? You could also try something like BuSpar or Provigil or a traditional stimulant like Dexedrine, Ritalin, Adderall, etc. to help with some of the depressive symptoms.
>
>
> I've gone up to 400mg with the Lamictal and I'm not sure if the last 50 mg made much difference.
>
> The BuSpar might be my next option; I still have to read about that one. I remember something about it being good for anxiety and I'm very anxious these days.
>
> I had Dex before and it was good for a while and then it made me worse. I never combined it with Lamictal before but maybe it won't help to go back to it either.
>
> Fuchsia
>Every antidepressant other than parnate has caused me adverse reactions or allergic reactions such as rashes, etc. I don't know what to say as I have tried probably 15 different anti-depresant med's. Now Parnate does not seem to work either. Lamictal was mentioned to add, but I am reluctant given all of the adverse reactions I have had to almost all psychotropic medications. Elsewhere on psychobabble, I posted about what happened to me adding Risperidone so I could sleep at night. I am actually thinking of going off the Parnate too. My psychiatrist told me to hold off until Friday so we could discuss. I see him for therapy and med's every week for 50 minutes and am tired of the whole thing. I have had too many bad experiences with the med's.
Karen
Posted by fuchsia on June 15, 2006, at 9:22:05
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe » fuchsia, posted by CEK on June 13, 2006, at 8:53:21
CEK, I hope you have some luck with the Provigil if that's what you end up on. I might read up on that one too. I have to say I'm afraid any stimulant might reset my brain such that I end up worse than before. I hope Provigil is different in that regard.
I don't have the akathisia at the moment but so many things caused it for me in the past that I am afraid of trying new things now. I also had it in the arms (like you) and I think that particular episode was from Rivortril withdrawal.
I got, also, an occulogyric crisis from maxolon so I just avoid all phenothiazines now from fear of dopamine deficiency type side effects.
I don't think I'll try going back on any of the meds that could possibly cause the akathisia side effects or dyskinesia side effects. I'm not prepared to take the risk that they won't go away.
Good luck
Posted by fuchsia on June 15, 2006, at 9:35:58
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by Karen44 on June 13, 2006, at 23:29:19
>
> Every antidepressant other than parnate has caused me adverse reactions or allergic reactions such as rashes, etc. I don't know what to say as I have tried probably 15 different anti-depresant med's. Now Parnate does not seem to work either. Lamictal was mentioned to add, but I am reluctant given all of the adverse reactions I have had to almost all psychotropic medications. Elsewhere on psychobabble, I posted about what happened to me adding Risperidone so I could sleep at night. I am actually thinking of going off the Parnate too. My psychiatrist told me to hold off until Friday so we could discuss. I see him for therapy and med's every week for 50 minutes and am tired of the whole thing. I have had too many bad experiences with the med's.
>Karen, the Lamictal is the one thing I've had that hasn't caused me any side effects. I did get the headaches during the start up period but after that it was fine. I have been on it for nearly a year now and it has really helped.
Did you find the dietary restrictions bad with the Parnate? I was wondering about a MAO but like you I get put off by the thought of side effects,
Posted by Karen44 on June 16, 2006, at 23:49:32
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by fuchsia on June 15, 2006, at 9:35:58
>
> >
> > Every antidepressant other than parnate has caused me adverse reactions or allergic reactions such as rashes, etc. I don't know what to say as I have tried probably 15 different anti-depresant med's. Now Parnate does not seem to work either. Lamictal was mentioned to add, but I am reluctant given all of the adverse reactions I have had to almost all psychotropic medications. Elsewhere on psychobabble, I posted about what happened to me adding Risperidone so I could sleep at night. I am actually thinking of going off the Parnate too. My psychiatrist told me to hold off until Friday so we could discuss. I see him for therapy and med's every week for 50 minutes and am tired of the whole thing. I have had too many bad experiences with the med's.
> >
>
> Karen, the Lamictal is the one thing I've had that hasn't caused me any side effects. I did get the headaches during the start up period but after that it was fine. I have been on it for nearly a year now and it has really helped.
>
> Did you find the dietary restrictions bad with the Parnate? I was wondering about a MAO but like you I get put off by the thought of side effects,
>
>
>
> I am really afraid to try Lamictal. My doctor brought it up today. We agreed that I would go down to 20 mg. per day on the Parnate. I started at 40 and went down to 30 and now 20 mg. He wants a back up plan if I start to get depressed again. Right now I don't feel that depressed. I am afraid of Lamictal because of all the problems I have had with other medications--adverse reactions and allergic reactions. Do you know of anyone who had a bad reaction to Lamictal?Karen
Posted by fuchsia on June 17, 2006, at 7:54:38
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe, posted by Karen44 on June 16, 2006, at 23:49:32
> > Karen, the Lamictal is the one thing I've had that hasn't caused me any side effects. I did get the headaches during the start up period but after that it was fine. I have been on it for nearly a year now and it has really helped.
> >
> > Did you find the dietary restrictions bad with the Parnate? I was wondering about a MAO but like you I get put off by the thought of side effects,
> >
> >> > I am really afraid to try Lamictal. My doctor brought it up today. We agreed that I would go down to 20 mg. per day on the Parnate. I started at 40 and went down to 30 and now 20 mg. He wants a back up plan if I start to get depressed again. Right now I don't feel that depressed. I am afraid of Lamictal because of all the problems I have had with other medications--adverse reactions and allergic reactions. Do you know of anyone who had a bad reaction to Lamictal?
>I don't know anyone personally taking Lamictal but people here have posted about various side effects that they were having that were from the Lamictal (or that they felt were from the Lamictal).
I was just surprised that I didn't get side effects (I had got them from everything else). I had an extremely slow start up; I began at 2.5 mgs.
My situation was extremely bad; I wasn't able to work for a number of years. Thus it was worth it to me to take the risk.
Posted by Karen44 on June 18, 2006, at 14:48:54
In reply to Re: Can mood stabiliser lessen akathisia side effe » Karen44, posted by fuchsia on June 17, 2006, at 7:54:38
> > > Karen, the Lamictal is the one thing I've had that hasn't caused me any side effects. I did get the headaches during the start up period but after that it was fine. I have been on it for nearly a year now and it has really helped.
> > >
> > > Did you find the dietary restrictions bad with the Parnate? I was wondering about a MAO but like you I get put off by the thought of side effects,
> > >
> > >
>
> > > I am really afraid to try Lamictal. My doctor brought it up today. We agreed that I would go down to 20 mg. per day on the Parnate. I started at 40 and went down to 30 and now 20 mg. He wants a back up plan if I start to get depressed again. Right now I don't feel that depressed. I am afraid of Lamictal because of all the problems I have had with other medications--adverse reactions and allergic reactions. Do you know of anyone who had a bad reaction to Lamictal?
> >
>
> I don't know anyone personally taking Lamictal but people here have posted about various side effects that they were having that were from the Lamictal (or that they felt were from the Lamictal).
>
> I was just surprised that I didn't get side effects (I had got them from everything else). I had an extremely slow start up; I began at 2.5 mgs.
>
> My situation was extremely bad; I wasn't able to work for a number of years. Thus it was worth it to me to take the risk.
>
>Thanks for your response; I too have had bad experiences with all sorts of psychotropic medications including almost all of the antidepressants other than the Parnate. However, it seems that perhaps Parnate is no longer working for me as it did once before in the past when I was younger. As far as the dietary restrictions are concerned, it has not been a huge problem for me. Many of the foods on the list are not necessarily ones one has to stay away from. My psychiatrist gave me a list of foods rated 0, 1, 2, and 3. 3 are the definitely stay away from this. 2 means you could get away with a minimal amount. 1 means you could eat some, and 0 obviously means okay. Aged cheese are a big no-no, but I can eat pizza with mozzarela cheese as that is not an aged cheese. I eat ham and chees sandwiches made out of am. process cheese. Etc. Do not drink red wine, for example, or beer. White wine is okay. The list of things you must stay away from for sure is small.
I will take to heart what you say about the Lamictal and hope we can start out very low, if needed. I am aware that we might have to keep the Parnate and add the Lamictal to it. It just scares me to death given the Serotonin Syndrome reaction I suffered from just adding a very small amount of Risperidone to my Parnate so I could sleep through the night. Take care.
Karen
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