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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by musico on November 23, 2005, at 15:23:21
Attention all sleuths. I'm switching from Zyprexa -gained 15 lbs in 6 weeks ugh! - to Ziprasidone for it's apparent weight neutral quality. Despite having the suggested EKG test beforehand (normal along with normal blood work) I'm now paranoid about the QT prolongation factor with respect to SUDDEN DEATH ugh ugh!
Pzifer's black box warning is confusing to me with it's claim that "although tosade de pointes has not been observed in association with the use of ziprasidone at recommended doses in premarketing studies, experience is too limited to rule out an increased risk"...then reading on I find ... "as with other antipsychotic drugs and placebo, sudden unexplained deaths have been reported in patients taking ziprasidone at recommended doses." !!?!! Then it goes on to say that the "premarketing experience for ziprasidone did not reveal an excess risk of mortality for ziprasidone compared to other antipsychotic drugs or placebo, but the extent of exposure was limited, especially for the drugs used as active controls and placebo. NEVERTHELESS, ziprasidone's larger prolongation of QTc length compared to several other antipsychotic drugs raises the possibility that the risk of SUDDEN DEATH may be greater for ziprasidone than for other available drugs..."
So I get the risk factor, but I still wonder why there were sudden UNEXPLAINED deaths...has anyone unearthed more detail on these poor souls? Did they have any pre-existing ailments, how old were they, etc. Or should I call Pzifer?
Posted by med_empowered on November 24, 2005, at 1:51:37
In reply to The Mystery of the Sudden Deaths - Geodon!, posted by musico on November 23, 2005, at 15:23:21
This "unexplained death" thing isn't limited to Geodon. Patients treated with neuroleptics tend to die younger than other patients. Neuroleptics are linked to heart issues (ex: Geodon and Mellaril) and other forms of death usually not found in un-medicated people. Patients also sometimes die of hypo- or hyper-thermia, since neuroleptics interfere with the body's temperature control mechanisms, which makes the patient more susceptible to shifts in either direction (hot or cold). Also, "unexplained" deaths seem to be higher among patients treated with neuroleptics than among people not given the drugs.
As you can probably tell, I'm not a big fan of neuroleptics. If you're worried about weight gain and heart issues, but still want a neuroleptic, I think Abilify would probably be your best best. But..for overall safety, discontinuing neuroleptic treatment is probably your best bet.
Posted by musico on November 24, 2005, at 6:42:59
In reply to Unexplained deaths w/ neuroleptics, posted by med_empowered on November 24, 2005, at 1:51:37
Hey med_empowered. Thank you, as always, for your attentive, informative and supportive posts :) Yes, they are a concern. I am at the trial & error stage with these as I was only diagnosed with BP in January and I'm 43 years old. Since I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety in 1998 I was treated with all kinds of AD monotherapy which wasn't the ticket. I've put myself and others at risk with my reckless behaviour, along with having a low quality of life.
I'm choosing to treat my illness with anti-psychotics (as well as Lamictal and Zoloft) at this time, but will remain cautious. Abilify sounds like the ticket, but unfortunately is not available here in Costa Rica. My pdoc wanted me to remain on Zyprexa as it was really working (amazing how life can make sense with the help of one little pill per day) but the weight gain is unacceptable to me.
Posted by med_empowered on November 24, 2005, at 11:01:21
In reply to Re: Unexplained deaths w/ neuroleptics, posted by musico on November 24, 2005, at 6:42:59
hey! If its between zyprexa and geodon, then I really dont know what to tell you. Adding metformin (glucophage, glucophage xr) sometimes helps with weight gain, as does adding amantidine or Meridia, a new-ish diet pill. Each of these medications will come with additional risks, course; metformin strikes me as the least risky, but your doctor will know for sure. Have you tried depakote? Or...tegretol, trileptal, keppra, lithium, calcium channel blockers, dilantin? All of these can help stabilize bipolar w/o the risks assoicated with antipsychotics.
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2005, at 14:20:28
In reply to Unexplained deaths w/ neuroleptics, posted by med_empowered on November 24, 2005, at 1:51:37
YES DONT TAKE GEODON IT DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE FOR A YEAR NOW.....
DONT TAKE GEODON OR ANY OTHER NEUROLEPTICS, THEY TURN YOU INTO ZOMBIES, AND MORRONS
try an anti depressant, thats the only stuff that works as a neuro enhancement for quality of life...
I tryed RISPERDAL, complete zombie, NOT HUMAN, SEXUAL LOSS, PEOPLE INSULTING YOU FOR DUMB
GEODON (TARDIVE DYSKINESIA, AKATHASIA, WEIGHT GAIN, SEDATION, LOSS OF SHORT TERM MEMORY, EXTREME ANXIETY)ABILIFY (pretty much of the same)
zyprexa (same stuff as risperdal but less sedating)
dont do it!!!!!!! i believed in my cure of mental disorder, those psy doctors are madness itself!! they wanna teach you a lesson, if you dont resist you will DIE!!!!!
Posted by musico on November 26, 2005, at 18:07:26
In reply to GEODON DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE! KILLED DEATH!!!!, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2005, at 14:20:28
> YES DONT TAKE GEODON IT DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE FOR A YEAR NOW.....
That's too bad J. I hope that you are getting better now. How much were you taking if you don't mind me asking...
DONT TAKE GEODON OR ANY OTHER NEUROLEPTICS, THEY TURN YOU INTO ZOMBIES, AND MORRONS
What dosage were you on with all of these? I read some of your past posts and it looks like when you tried Zyprexa you gained weight, me too that's why I'm switching to Geodon.
>
> try an anti depressant, thats the only stuff that works as a neuro enhancement for quality of life...I'm on Zoloft, sexual dysfunction now which is depressing in itself. But I'm not switching until I have given Geodon a try, which I am going to do. I'm just finding that I'm extremely drowsy so I'm staying home and not operating any machinery lol. I am fortunate that I don't have to go any place as I'm nodding off every hour or so. This should go away with any luck.
J. I need to take something for my mania, that's why my pdoc is trying another AP. I'm just concerned about 'sudden death' which could be paranoia on my part.
>dont do it!!!!!!! i believed in my cure of mental disorder, those psy doctors are madness itself!! they wanna teach you a lesson, if you dont resist you will DIE!!!!!
Okay, as they say here in Costa Rica, tranquilo :) Thank you for your concern but I'm still gonna give Geodon a fair try. Wish me luck!
Hugs!BTW, what mental illness are you diagnosed with? I'm Bipolar. What meds are you taking now, how much?
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2005, at 18:15:11
In reply to Re: GEODON DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE! KILLED DEATH!!!!, posted by musico on November 26, 2005, at 18:07:26
yes i had the paranoia of sudden death too, i asked my doc 30 times IS IT SAFE?
i took lowest dosage for 3 weeks and got TD from it, 20 mg, just when you get uncontrolled movements QUIT IT IMMEDIATELLY, it will go away, it did the first time i quit it on time and the EPS SYNDROME went away, i was happy i quit it
wishing you best of luck with Satans GEODON
Posted by theo on November 27, 2005, at 14:39:18
In reply to Re: GEODON DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE! KILLED DEATH!!!!, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2005, at 18:15:11
> i took lowest dosage for 3 weeks and got TD from it, 20 mg, just when you get uncontrolled movements QUIT IT IMMEDIATELLY, it will go away, it did the first time i quit it on time and the EPS SYNDROME went away, i was happy i quit it
>What kind of unconrollable movements? Are these like nervous habit movements or something totally different?
Posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2005, at 8:12:06
In reply to Re: GEODON DESTROYED MY SOCIAL LIFE! KILLED DEATH!!!! » Jeroen, posted by theo on November 27, 2005, at 14:39:18
Hey! I didn't mean to scare you with my post about neuroleptics and death. Just..it does happen. These drugs are pretty hardcore in terms of side effects and overall effects on the mental and emotional life of patients. If you opt to go for long-term AP use, I'd recommend you try using a vitamin c/E combo supplement...there's a theory that TD is caused by oxidative stress, which might be reduced by increased antioxidant consumption. Cases of established TD sometimes respond well to Vitamin E therapy, also. TD is relatively uncommon with the atypicals, but it still happens; for zyprexa, the risk is about .5-1%/year; the risk is probably around that for the other atypicals (except abilify..no one knows what to expect from this one), and higher for Risperdal, which is pretty rough stuff.
Molindone might be worth considering. Its an old-school antipsychotic, but some consider it atypical/atypical-ish. It can cause EPS but apparently there are only a few cases of it causing full-blown TD. In general, it tends to be weight-neutral, sometimes actually contributing to weight loss. Also, it has an antidepressant effect built-in...I think it acts as a weak MAOI or something.
Posted by theresabar on February 16, 2006, at 11:09:00
In reply to The Mystery of the Sudden Deaths - Geodon!, posted by musico on November 23, 2005, at 15:23:21
My step-father's autupsy just came back. He was 56. He had been hospitalized at the VA for agitation, schizophrenia and psychosis. He died suddenly. They had increased his Ziprasidone dosage from 20mg bid to 40 mg bid to 80 mg bid. The autopsty stated that he died of a ventricular arrhythmia. It also stated that Ziprasidone has been linked to ventricular arrhythmias and with his dosage doubling that it was the proposed cause of his death.
He did have diabetes controlled by an oral agent. This could have been from the ziprasidone, I do not know. He also had a history of hypertension though on admission his BP had been low. The day of his death his BP was 150's / 90's. He was on medication for elevated cholesterol as well.> Attention all sleuths. I'm switching from Zyprexa -gained 15 lbs in 6 weeks ugh! - to Ziprasidone for it's apparent weight neutral quality. Despite having the suggested EKG test beforehand (normal along with normal blood work) I'm now paranoid about the QT prolongation factor with respect to SUDDEN DEATH ugh ugh!
>
> Pzifer's black box warning is confusing to me with it's claim that "although tosade de pointes has not been observed in association with the use of ziprasidone at recommended doses in premarketing studies, experience is too limited to rule out an increased risk"...then reading on I find ... "as with other antipsychotic drugs and placebo, sudden unexplained deaths have been reported in patients taking ziprasidone at recommended doses." !!?!! Then it goes on to say that the "premarketing experience for ziprasidone did not reveal an excess risk of mortality for ziprasidone compared to other antipsychotic drugs or placebo, but the extent of exposure was limited, especially for the drugs used as active controls and placebo. NEVERTHELESS, ziprasidone's larger prolongation of QTc length compared to several other antipsychotic drugs raises the possibility that the risk of SUDDEN DEATH may be greater for ziprasidone than for other available drugs..."
>
> So I get the risk factor, but I still wonder why there were sudden UNEXPLAINED deaths...has anyone unearthed more detail on these poor souls? Did they have any pre-existing ailments, how old were they, etc. Or should I call Pzifer?
Posted by Jeroen on February 16, 2006, at 11:46:52
In reply to Re: The Mystery of the Sudden Deaths - Geodon!, posted by theresabar on February 16, 2006, at 11:09:00
im very very sory to hear another GEODON victim,
it has destroyed my personality, i am now forced to take an anti psychotic for dyskinetic movement in my eye muscles caused by this medieval medication approved by FDA in 2001
This is the end of the thread.
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