![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on July 22, 2005, at 18:11:55
Just out of interest, has anyone ever taken tamoxifen (the breast cancer drug) to treat acute mania?
I noticed that tamoxifen hasn't been discussed much on babble before, just a couple of threads a few years ago.
J Clin Psychiatry. 1999;60 Suppl 2:27-39; discussion 40-1, 113-6. Related Articles, Links
Modulation of CNS signal transduction pathways and gene expression by mood-stabilizing agents: therapeutic implications.
Manji HK, Bebchuk JM, Moore GJ, Glitz D, Hasanat KA, Chen G.
Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit, Mich 48201, USA.
In an attempt to find the key to reducing the excessive morbidity and mortality seen with mood disorders, our laboratory has been extensively investigating lithium's mechanisms of action in an integrated series of clinical and preclinical studies. We have found that the chronic administration of the 2 structurally highly dissimilar agents, lithium and valproate, brings about a strikingly similar reduction in protein kinase C (PKC) alpha and epsilon isozymes in rat frontal cortex and hippocampus. In view of PKC's critical role in regulating neuronal excitability and neurotransmitter release, we have postulated that PKC inhibition may have antimanic efficacy. In a small study, we have found that tamoxifen (which, in addition to its estrogen receptor blockade, is also a PKC inhibitor) has marked antimanic efficacy. These exciting preliminary results suggest that PKC inhibitors may represent a novel class of improved therapeutic agents for bipolar disorder, and this is under further investigation............................
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on July 22, 2005, at 19:09:22
In reply to Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by ed_uk on July 22, 2005, at 18:11:55
PKC (epsilon) inhibitors may also be usefull in the treatment of anxiety disorders.
There is a link between PKC activation and reduction in the activities of the GABA(a) receptor.
According to the below study, activation of the 5-ht2 system activates PKC and decreases GABA(a) responsivness.
This may be why 5-ht2 blockers have anxiolitic and perhaps antimanic activities. Probably upstream of PKC and GABA(a).
I think PKC inhibitors also increase the responsiveness of the GABA(a) receptor.
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/short/21/17/6502
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2005, at 19:45:56
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 22, 2005, at 19:09:22
Boy, tell that to the women I know who've had breat CA and take Tamoxifen. They all complain about the horrible side effects including high blood pressure, loss of taste initially, and even one lady I know very high anxiety. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 7:31:00
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2005, at 19:45:56
>Boy, tell that to the women I know who've had breat CA and take Tamoxifen.
They weren't acutely manic though!
Ed xxx
Posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 7:32:00
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 22, 2005, at 19:09:22
Hi Link,
Tamoxifen minus the estrogen antagonism sounds like it might be useful!
~Ed
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2005, at 11:39:38
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 7:32:00
Ed, I don't understand. Fondly, PJ O
Posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 14:12:33
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2005, at 11:39:38
Hi PJ,
Many of the unpleasant side effects of tamoxifen occur because it blocks estrogen receptors. It also has other actions too however, which may be responsible for its (possible) efficacy in the treatment of acute mania.
Ed xxx
Posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 14:27:47
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 22, 2005, at 19:09:22
Hi Link,
That's really interesting.
After reading Ezmony's (sp) post on 'alternative', I found this........
http://www.cnsspectrums.com/article.php3?id=61
It's weird that SSRIs help OCD when serotonin reuptake is supposedly reduced in OCD! The article never mentions this....typical. Anyway, SSRIs definately help my OCD. SSRIs often produce an initial exacerbation of OCD followed by a gradual improvement, I expect that they work by downregulating certain serotonin receptors.
I wonder whether tianeptine (Stablon) could help OCD as well? It can treat depression. Maybe it can treat OCD too. All I could find was this......
It doesn't make much sense to me because it's been translated from French.
>anxiety disorders
Do you think tamoxifen might be an effective treatment for OCD?
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 18:56:49
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 14:27:47
That is some interesting research. It is funny since, the so called short-short varient of the serotonin gene which is significantly correlated with increased likelyhood of lifetime depressive episode is associated with several fold reducation in the activity of the serotonin transporter. Why this condition responds to SSRI's is beyond me.
I also heard that SSRI's can increase PKC activity, in a recording of a conferance heald by Dr. Manji.
So why these drugs work is beyond me, there should be more evidence for Tianeptine like you say, since it would appear to reverse the detected genetic abormaility.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 18:58:25
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 18:56:49
Its getting to the point where I have a real hard time accepting certain drugs, after having read reseach like this.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 19:06:06
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 23, 2005, at 14:27:47
I've wanted to try tianeptine for a while but cannot afford it.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2005, at 19:17:50
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 19:06:06
Thanks Ed, I guess that's why it puts women in premature menopause. I know one of the ladies said it starts to age you faster too. Now, you don't want to grow old do you? Then you'd need a facelift! Fondly, PJ O
Posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 21:30:27
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2005, at 19:17:50
Some longevity sites also implicate excess serotonin to premature aging although I don't know the implications of this in terms of SSRI treatement. I know that the herb quercetin has antihistamine and antiserotonin properties.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2005, at 22:18:57
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 21:30:27
Well I don't have excess serotonin so that's someting I don't have to worry about! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on July 24, 2005, at 4:45:00
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 21:30:27
I've been on SSRIs for six years and I look younger than I am!
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on July 24, 2005, at 4:46:38
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 23, 2005, at 18:56:49
Hi Link,
>I also heard that SSRI's can increase PKC activity, in a recording of a conferance heald by Dr. Manji.
Perhaps that's why they can induce mania?
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on July 24, 2005, at 15:12:02
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 24, 2005, at 4:46:38
Yeah, I've been on SSRI's too and I can pass for 17.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on July 24, 2005, at 16:22:44
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania, posted by linkadge on July 24, 2005, at 15:12:02
Yeah, I could pass for 17 too and I'm 21.
~Ed
Posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2005, at 19:30:48
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 24, 2005, at 16:22:44
How come when you're young you always want to look older and the reverse later on. Well, I've seen both of your pictures and I want to reassure you both that you do indeed look your age. That should make you both feel good. Fondly, PJ O
Posted by ed_uk on July 25, 2005, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: Tamoxifen for the treatment of acute mania » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2005, at 19:30:48
Thanks PJ!!!
Ed xxoxo
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.