![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 1, 2005, at 12:56:55
Does anyone know how partial sleep deprivation can work to help relieve depression and improve response to other meds. If I take 50 mg of lamictal right before bed I get very limited sleep and never get into deep sleep, no dreaming. Then I notice later in that day my response to Namenda is always improved and actually feel it working.
If I get a full nights sleep, I end up oversleeping and dont really feel too well. I work the night shift so my sleep patterns are varied anyways. Just wondering if anyone knows how partial sleep deprivation works and how safe it is. Thank you
Posted by linkadge on June 1, 2005, at 15:29:37
In reply to Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 1, 2005, at 12:56:55
Wow, that sounds exactly like me. With celexa, I noticed that I only felt good the next day, if I had broken sleep with a "nightmare"
This is why I find people's reports of feeling better the "next day" on antidepressants, totally concievable, if the drug can trick the mind into going into that sleep deprivation mode, then it could litteraly work as quickly as sleep deprivation for depression.
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on June 1, 2005, at 16:04:30
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by linkadge on June 1, 2005, at 15:29:37
> Wow, that sounds exactly like me. With celexa, I noticed that I only felt good the next day, if I had broken sleep with a "nightmare"
>
> This is why I find people's reports of feeling better the "next day" on antidepressants, totally concievable, if the drug can trick the mind into going into that sleep deprivation mode, then it could litteraly work as quickly as sleep deprivation for depression.
>
>
> Linkadge
Same here,daytime sleep increments,or a weak few hrs sleep at night and im fine,let me have a full nights deep deep sleep and i wake up feeling like the sky literaly has turned grey and my stomach is turning as well,opposite im up and about and the day goes smooth.This is why i dont take anything for sleep now its just not worth it.
>
>
>
Posted by Maxime on June 1, 2005, at 22:09:52
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by willyee on June 1, 2005, at 16:04:30
There are tons of articles about how sleep deprivation help depression. And they aren't always talking about only a few hours of sleep. So yes, it does help depression. I'll see if I can find some of those articles because they are interesting. That's why someone who is bipolar needs to sleep or else they risk going manic.
Maxime
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 1, 2005, at 23:36:53
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by Maxime on June 1, 2005, at 22:09:52
> There are tons of articles about how sleep deprivation help depression. And they aren't always talking about only a few hours of sleep. So yes, it does help depression. I'll see if I can find some of those articles because they are interesting. That's why someone who is bipolar needs to sleep or else they risk going manic.
>
> MaximeThere is a history of bipolar disorder in my family. However I have only had depression/adhd. I am currently taking lamictal and Namenda. an evening dose of lamictal was added and now all of a sudden I feel the namenda working very well during the day. The lamictal causes me to go into and out of sleep allnight, maybe only getting a total of a few hours sleep.
So the next day I start feeling great, then the next night the same thing happens and I feel even better the next day. I also have adderall and I respond very well to it after 2 nights in a row of partial sleep deprivation. But by the third night, I am extremely tired from litle sleep, and end up crashing and oversleeping, then wakeup feeling awful all day, with no respone to any meds.
I just find it very odd that getting less sleep can help me so much, then when I get too much I feel terrible. The nights I get little sleep, the next day I am a ver different person. I am more positive, outgoing, much more social, but this may be the namenda working better.
Posted by KayeBaby on June 2, 2005, at 0:56:14
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 1, 2005, at 23:36:53
I just recieved this article in my email-very timely!
I also get great anti-depressant effect from sleep deprivation or limited sleep.
Abstract
There is evidence to suggest that the antidepressant activity of sleep deprivation may be due to an enhancement of serotonergic and/or noradrenergic neurotransmission in brain. In the present study we examined the possibility that such changes may occur at the level of the norepinephrine (NET) and serotonin (SERT) and transporters. Rats were deprived of sleep for 96 h using the modified multiple platform method and then sacrificed for autoradiographic assessments of NET and SERT binding throughout the brain. [3H]Nisoxetine binding to the NE transporter was generally decreased in 44 of 45 areas examined, with significant reductions occurring in the anterior cingulate cortex (−16%), endopiriform n. (−18%), anterior olfactory n. (−19%), glomerular layer of olfactory bulb (−18%), ventral pallidum (−14%), medial preoptic area (−16%), retrochiasmatic/arcuate hypothalamus (−18%), anteromedial thalamic n. (−15%), and rostral raphe (−17%). In contrast, SERT binding measured with [11C]DASB showed no clear directional trends in 61 brain areas examined, but was significantly reduced in subdivisions of the anterior olfactory nucleus (−22%) and substantia nigra (−18%). Thus, sleep deprivation induced widespread decreases in NET binding, and fewer and well-localized decreases in SERT binding. Significant down-regulation in one brain region, the anterior olfactory nucleus, was observed in the case of both transporters. These results suggest that mechanisms involved in the antidepressant action of sleep deprivation may involve generalized NET down-regulation as well as decreased SERT binding in specific areas. Insofar as these changes may be associated with increased levels of serotonin (5-HT) and norepinephrine (NE) in the synapse, they suggest that sleep deprivation may share some basic mechanisms of action with several current antidepressant medications.
Abstract and full text links at 'Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacology and Biological Psychiatry' (via ScienceDirect)
http://tinyurl.com/9kfa2
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 2, 2005, at 13:02:07
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by KayeBaby on June 2, 2005, at 0:56:14
I have a question for anyone that responds well to sleep deprivation. Normally, do you have a tendency to oversleep (hypersomnia) It would be interesting to see what people respond to sleeping patterns. I know the less sleeep I get the better I feel, the more sleep I get the worse I feel.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 2, 2005, at 13:24:04
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 2, 2005, at 13:02:07
Is the antidepressive effect of sleep deprivation stabilized by a three day phase advance of the sleep period? A pilot study.
Voderholzer U, Valerius G, Schaerer L, Riemann D, Giedke H, Schwarzler F, Berger M, Wiegand M.
Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Klinikum of the Albert-Ludwigs-University, Hauptstrasse 5, 79104 Freiburg, Germany. Ulrich_Voderholzer@psyallg.ukl.uni-freiburg.de
Sleep deprivation (SD) induces a rapid amelioration of mood in about 60 % of depressed patients. After the next night of sleep, however, most patients experience a relapse. Previous studies demonstrated that a six day sleep-phase advance protocol prevents relapses in about 60 % of patients who responded positively to SD. We investigated whether also a three day phase advance of the sleep period might be able to maintain the antidepressant effects of SD. Twenty-eight medicated depressed inpatients, who had a significant improvement after a SD in one night were recruited for this study. The phase advance protocol began on the first day after SD with a bed time from 5:00 p. m. to 12:00 p. m. on the first, from 7:00 p. m. to 2:00 a. m. on the second and 9:00 p. m. to 4:00 a. m. on the third day after SD. Three patients dropped out because of protocol violations. Only ten of the remaining 25 SD responders had a relapse during the three days of phase advance treatment or during the two days after it. Two of the relapsers improved again until day 6, i. e. 68 % showed an improvement of at least 30 % six days after the beginning of the treatment. This study indicates that even a three day phase advance protocol may help to prevent relapses after successful SD
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 2:20:32
In reply to Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 1, 2005, at 12:56:55
> Does anyone know how partial sleep deprivation can work to help relieve depression and improve response to other meds. If I take 50 mg of lamictal right before bed I get very limited sleep and never get into deep sleep, no dreaming. Then I notice later in that day my response to Namenda is always improved and actually feel it working.
>
> If I get a full nights sleep, I end up oversleeping and dont really feel too well. I work the night shift so my sleep patterns are varied anyways. Just wondering if anyone knows how partial sleep deprivation works and how safe it is. Thank youSleep deprevation just doesn't seem like it could possibly be all that safe. I've tried it before, and I'll admit I feel borderline-hypomanic the next day, for some odd reason. I've never been diagnosed as having Bipolar I or II, it's all very confusing. At any rate, I personally wouldn't recommend sleep deprivation "therapy"...while we might feel better temporarily, I would assume that eventually one would crash. I guess one night here and there is OK...but I would definately not make it a regular habit.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on June 4, 2005, at 14:48:32
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation and Depression, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on June 4, 2005, at 2:20:32
> > Does anyone know how partial sleep deprivation can work to help relieve depression and improve response to other meds. If I take 50 mg of lamictal right before bed I get very limited sleep and never get into deep sleep, no dreaming. Then I notice later in that day my response to Namenda is always improved and actually feel it working.
> >
> > If I get a full nights sleep, I end up oversleeping and dont really feel too well. I work the night shift so my sleep patterns are varied anyways. Just wondering if anyone knows how partial sleep deprivation works and how safe it is. Thank you
>
> Sleep deprevation just doesn't seem like it could possibly be all that safe. I've tried it before, and I'll admit I feel borderline-hypomanic the next day, for some odd reason. I've never been diagnosed as having Bipolar I or II, it's all very confusing. At any rate, I personally wouldn't recommend sleep deprivation "therapy"...while we might feel better temporarily, I would assume that eventually one would crash. I guess one night here and there is OK...but I would definately not make it a regular habit.
There is a big difference between partial sleep deprivation, which is what Im talking about and total sleep deprivation which seems rather impractical and foolish.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.