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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paulbwell on May 22, 2005, at 22:47:50
i have found NOTHING better for sever anxiety-than Valium+small amounts of wine, better then anything i have EVER tried
-Xanax
-Clonaz
-Valium alone
the synestic effect is many x greater than either alone. (including up to 60mgs Valium) I'm talking LOW amounts of wine-nothing silly.It also attenuates the depressive effects of Valium alone. somewhat like the amphet+barb combos 1960s-they were on to something there.
Use substances wisely for the best effects remedy folks
Health ya'll smile.
Posted by FredPotter on May 22, 2005, at 23:43:16
In reply to Sever anxiety-the cure, posted by Paulbwell on May 22, 2005, at 22:47:50
Hi Paul I used to find Xanax and alcohol went together rather well, but when the alcohol wore off the anxiety returned somewhat stronger and I had to have another drink. The Xanax lasted much longer than the alcohol of course, even though it's a short lived benzo. The result over time? Hospital, seizure, unconsciousness, near death. So do take care. I agree that nothing seems to work like alcohol (I haven't tried heroin) but the panic attacks when I *had* to stop drinking were unspeakable
Fred
Posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 0:14:39
In reply to Re: Sever anxiety-the cure » Paulbwell, posted by FredPotter on May 22, 2005, at 23:43:16
> Hi Paul I used to find Xanax and alcohol went together rather well, but when the alcohol wore off the anxiety returned somewhat stronger and I had to have another drink. The Xanax lasted much longer than the alcohol of course, even though it's a short lived benzo. The result over time? Hospital, seizure, unconsciousness, near death. So do take care. I agree that nothing seems to work like alcohol (I haven't tried heroin) but the panic attacks when I *had* to stop drinking were unspeakable
> FredI believe your experience, the wine is wearing off, and i feeel like another, but the large Valium dose is still there. the wine adds SO much to the effects-everythings ok when its active, no worries, but i won't, althought i want to.
Peace mate
Posted by notfeelingthebest on May 23, 2005, at 1:33:56
In reply to Fred, posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 0:14:39
I'm interested in this benzo/alc deal. I take 6mg a day of clonazepam. I will also drink up to a pint of whiskey... am I taking serious risks here?
They say avoid alcohol, but they seem a little ambiguous about it. I've heard some doctors say a little is ok?
In fact I've heard some doctors say that benzos will destroy my mind while others seem to think its as mild as aspirin.
Another interesting thing is the type of alcoholic beverage seems to have a different affect. Like wine and spirits are certainly more intoxicating when taken with benzos, but 4 cans of lager and I'm out like a light. Isn't that a little backwards.
Posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 1:52:26
In reply to Re: Fred, posted by notfeelingthebest on May 23, 2005, at 1:33:56
> I'm interested in this benzo/alc deal. I take 6mg a day of clonazepam. I will also drink up to a pint of whiskey... am I taking serious risks here?
>
> They say avoid alcohol, but they seem a little ambiguous about it. I've heard some doctors say a little is ok?
>
> In fact I've heard some doctors say that benzos will destroy my mind while others seem to think its as mild as aspirin.
>
> Another interesting thing is the type of alcoholic beverage seems to have a different affect. Like wine and spirits are certainly more intoxicating when taken with benzos, but 4 cans of lager and I'm out like a light. Isn't that a little backwards.I was on 6mgs of K and had a bottle of wine one friday nite, the next think i knew i woke up in a police cell and was being finger printed, sporting a fructed scull a black eye and bruises, with a pending charge for stealing.
I have no fuki* memory of what happened.
I learned my lesson!!!
MORAL-be carefull.
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2005, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Fred » notfeelingthebest, posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 1:52:26
I was told benzos plus alchohol equal stop breathing. But I did feel great when I drank beer and took any of the benzos. And I always woke up. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 20:07:31
In reply to Re: Fred, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2005, at 19:26:24
> I was told benzos plus alchohol equal stop breathing. But I did feel great when I drank beer and took any of the benzos. And I always woke up. Fondly, Phillipa
Hi Phillipa
I have found valium+some wine VERY synesgic, but you have to be carefull.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 23, 2005, at 20:35:44
In reply to Re: Fred » Phillipa, posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 20:07:31
While it is certainly possible to die from an alcohol + benzo combo, it's still pretty hard especially when you are already fairly tolerant to both. The worst problem is the addiction that will ensue if one keps at it beginning with ever increasing tolerance. Talk about adding insult to injury. Mental illness + addiction...think no one understands now...
Posted by Paulbwell on May 23, 2005, at 20:57:41
In reply to Dangerous Game, posted by Mr.Scott on May 23, 2005, at 20:35:44
> While it is certainly possible to die from an alcohol + benzo combo, it's still pretty hard especially when you are already fairly tolerant to both. The worst problem is the addiction that will ensue if one keps at it beginning with ever increasing tolerance. Talk about adding insult to injury. Mental illness + addiction...think no one understands now...
Im tolerant to benzos, i need at last 60mgs Valium to feel sh*t, so a LITTLE alcohol wont hurt, and possibly help, with mood and daily living, I'm not a heavy drinker by any means.
Everybody takes Doc meds + their own self medication, thats not news
Posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 0:22:17
In reply to Dangerous Game, posted by Mr.Scott on May 23, 2005, at 20:35:44
Mr Scott I like your line "Mental illness + addiction...think no one understands now... ".
That's what happened to me with self-medicating for anxiety. As soon as the alcohol became a problem (mixed with Xanax) no-one any longer saw the mental illness. Friends, family, professionals alike. It's as if they said, "so it was alcohol all along". It still hurts to think that's what they thought. I don't drink anymore but take Xanax still (not sure why). The result is I just put up with my anxiety. I suffer in the evenings especially, whereas before I self-medicated it away.
But the anxiety then, when it did come, was much worse. So I dare not go back to drinking
Fred
Posted by Declan on May 24, 2005, at 1:01:16
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Mr.Scott, posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 0:22:17
Maybe it depends on how much. Without going into my addiction history (that's what side of the tracks I come from), I take 5-10mg Valium/day, 1.25mg methadone/day, which truly is bugger all, and have between 4 and 6 oz of spirits at night. It's not perfect, it's not alarming and I normally feel like I need every bit, as I guess we mostly all feel.
Declan
Posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 15:49:18
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game, posted by Declan on May 24, 2005, at 1:01:16
Hi Declan I've taken methadone a couple of times and found to my surprise about 3 hours later that I felt really calm and together - like my old self in fact. I didn't link it to the methadone at first. I hear such frightening things about it as an addictive drug though. Have you any comments?
thanks
Fred
Posted by Declan on May 24, 2005, at 17:05:25
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Declan, posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 15:49:18
Hi Fred
Methadone is fairly toxic to opiate naive patients. Nausea/vomiting in even low doses. Not the greatest opioid, really difficult to get off (very inelastic, much more so than benzos), but having said that there is nothing (in my experience) like an opiate for quieting internal distress. Addiction probably takes a couple of weeks of intoxication to set in properly at all, although people differ. The feeling of overwhelming sanity is such a relief.
Declan
Posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 19:54:40
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game, posted by Declan on May 24, 2005, at 17:05:25
Thanks Declan. Hey that's how I felt! Overwhelming sanity
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 25, 2005, at 17:58:14
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Mr.Scott, posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 0:22:17
FP
Do you participate in any 12 step stuff?
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 25, 2005, at 18:03:31
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Mr.Scott, posted by FredPotter on May 24, 2005, at 0:22:17
It's so hard to tease out mental illness from addiction (the disease) at times. Everyone thinks they have the answer. Sometimes I wonder however...if addiction really is a disease meaning that eventually usage of substances with an addictive potential gives way to tolerance and in some cases craving for more...than wouldn't taking say xanax (or klonopin in my case) at a controlled stable dose make an addict (one with the disease of addiction) actually feel worse over time.
I wonder if I could ever get off of benzos whether my anxiety might actually get better? Any thoughts my friend?
Scott
Posted by FredPotter on May 25, 2005, at 18:35:13
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » FredPotter, posted by Mr.Scott on May 25, 2005, at 18:03:31
12 steps yes I went to rehab. I liked the people but not the method. They never managed to convince me that alcoholism was a disease. They insisted I was an addictive type and I'm not really. Just many years of self-medicating with alcohol was destroying me mentally and physically. I've been taking benzos for 41 years and to my knowledge they've done me no harm. I think they are "clean" drugs as opposed to alcohol which is a dirty, dirty drug (good fun in moderation though)
Posted by notfeelingthebest on May 25, 2005, at 22:19:06
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Mr.Scott, posted by FredPotter on May 25, 2005, at 18:35:13
Its funny when you mention alcohol to your pdocs. They get so excited because they see something tangible that they can actually do.
"We'll get ya off that nasty booze; at least that something positive. Regarding the fact that you use it to medicate yourself, er... well you're better off without it whatever the case. Have you heard of the exciting new line of SSRIs? They're expensive and completely useless for 90 percent of the people who take them!"
Regarding AA, I heard that statistically it doesn't actually work. Although they never forget to slip in a word or two about Jesus.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 26, 2005, at 0:00:32
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » Mr.Scott, posted by FredPotter on May 25, 2005, at 18:35:13
So then...You don't think there is any merit to the idea that coming off of benzos could be somehow helpful to us sufferers?
Its just an idea that floats into my head from time to time. I mean if alcohol f*cks you up and utimately coming off of it supposedly makes you feel better, than wouldn't that translate somehow the same for benzos?
Keep in mind your dealing with someone grabbing at straws here...41 years on benzos? Wow! Thats got to be a record somehow. I thought my 13 was unique.
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2005, at 0:01:45
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game, posted by notfeelingthebest on May 25, 2005, at 22:19:06
That's the truth about SSRI's. But, isn't AA famous for the term "Higher Power"? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by FredPotter on May 26, 2005, at 0:09:38
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game, posted by notfeelingthebest on May 25, 2005, at 22:19:06
Dear Notfeelingthebest
that post was very funny and spot-on. I'll file it away. I see SSRIs as being effective sexual suppressants, esp for males, which sometimes have some antidepressive side-effects (rare). Strongly indicated for rapists
Posted by FredPotter on May 26, 2005, at 0:15:51
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » FredPotter, posted by Mr.Scott on May 26, 2005, at 0:00:32
Mr Scott I have come off benzos several times. I was feeling well at the time or I wouldn't have, so it's difficult to know if coming off benzos made me feel better. However I was wondering whether they stop working if you're on them all the time. Mind you, I don't get panic attacks anymore so something's working. Perhaps I've finally grown up
Fred
Posted by Declan on May 26, 2005, at 17:16:41
In reply to Re: Dangerous Game » FredPotter, posted by Mr.Scott on May 26, 2005, at 0:00:32
Hi there
I read a study done in Australia where a dozen or so agoraphobic benzo users were taken off their benzos and all, I think, got significantly better *eventually*. At the time I was somewhat like that and I too got better when I managed to take a fraction of my former dose. (But who's to say what's causing what.) Didn't manage to stop.
Declan
This is the end of the thread.
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