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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tom_traubert on April 16, 2005, at 11:31:28
I posted awhile back, asking if anyone on this site was diagnosed bipolar after withdrawing from psychotropic meds. the reason I asked was that I've had two manic episodes, but both occured directly after withdrawing from anafranil and klonopin for ocd (not a slow taper, just stopping meds). I was drinking and smoking pot, so I thought that had somehting to do with it too. i've been off meds for over 6 years, and I've been managing, but recently I haven't been working and noticed that I'm doing things a lot faster and I'm more restless. Now, I know that this is a classic panic ocd pattern, of thinking the worst and thinking you're going to lose it, but I've lost it in the past, twice, and it's terrifying to me now. I think that maybe it's the change of season (I moved to the east coast last year and this has been my first full winter into spring in many years), a food allergy, the cumulative result of stress which is know to trigger the 'kindling' response of mania. Being manic, which is the same as saying "going crazy" to me, is my biggest and oldest fear. For this reason I'm hoping that it's just an ocd pattern that has been really hammered home because of stress and too much free time on my hands. I haven't felt this way in many years and it's really really scary. I made an appointment to see a therapist on Monday for an expert opinion whether it's mania or panic of ocd, but I just can't relax. I've been sleeping ok so far, but the last two nights i slept 6 hours then 5hours and I'm frightened if I don't sleep it will get worse. I'm just really really scared and would like any advice, especially from people who may have had a manic episode as a result of med withdrawal and who didn't ever have another.
Thanks
tt
Posted by D minor on April 16, 2005, at 11:43:25
In reply to Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 16, 2005, at 11:31:28
Hi Tom,
I just got really close to going manic. I was hypomanic for about a week and I did have that scary feeling that I was going to loose it. I did what I would advise you to do and made an emergency appointment with my psychiatrist. We added on a mood stabilizer, Topamax, and increased my Seroquel. Two days later I am feeling like myself agin. I no longer feel like I'm on the brink of insanity.So yeah, seeing a therapist is good, but my therapist really couldn't help. Try making an appointment with a pdoc. And if you are having trouble sleeping you might try taking a benadryl until you get in to see someone. Good luck. I know how scary it can be.
dm
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2005, at 15:49:30
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by D minor on April 16, 2005, at 11:43:25
Do you have anything Rx'd for sleep? The lack of sleep could trigger a mania. And the longer days are supposed to contribute to mania I've been told. I agree get an emergency appointment with your pdoc while you are thinking clearly and know what the problem probably is. If you wait you could get into trouble if you know what I mean. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by tom_traubert on April 17, 2005, at 20:08:28
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2005, at 15:49:30
thanks for the feedback, I appreciate your take on things. yeah, it's been pretty bad, panic attacks non-stop. I'm pure obsessional ocd, so the idea of a manic episode is the most frightening thing in the world to me, so that's what my ocd brain takes hold of. i'm seeing someone tomorrow--yesterday I didn't even think I'd be able to make it to tomorrow. You know how it is? I'm thinking that it may have to do with my thyroid medication being upped recently, plus the change of season. I don't know, I'm just really scared. I don't know if I'm more scared of the mania or the withdrawal effects of the drugs i was on which started the manic episode. It's all very confusing and scary.
any more feedback from psychobabblers would be much appreciated.
thanks a lot
tt
Posted by D minor on April 17, 2005, at 20:49:26
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 17, 2005, at 20:08:28
> You know how it is?
I don't have OCD, but I know how it is to be scared of going manic. Hang in there, I'll be praying for you. Tomorrow is sooner than you think.
What meds are you on now? What meds have you recently quit?
Let us know how it goes.
dm
Posted by rachel sarah on April 18, 2005, at 7:36:09
In reply to Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 16, 2005, at 11:31:28
Hi,
I really sympathise with you on this one because I know exactly what it is like. I really don't think you are going manic though, I think you are just afraid of going manic and your panicky temperment is not helping.
I think the restlessness your describing sounds like anxiety. I have GAD and I am constantly restless and get really racing thoughts rushing through my head and cant seem to relax. If you get into a high state of anxiety and start to feel you may be going manic, the anxiety and panic attacks you suffer from are just going to make you worse.
I am not a doctor but I really don't think you sound like your manic. I am a really anxious person and was always worried that I was going mad, like you I smoked pot for 4 years which didn't help with the paranoid thought. If I were you I would try and give up pot, I am not dissaproving of it, but I know it made me really bad, I thought I was a schizophrenic and that I too was going mad.
When you feel like your going mad, do you have a voice in your head saying "your going mad" etc. I had that when I was very anxious, I also found all my thoughts were distorted and really muddled and racing around my head. That too is just being anxious.
Have you tried having Cognitive Behavioural Therapy? That really helped my learn to relax, better than any drugs believe it or not. I also found effexor really usefull, Have you tried that?
I hope you are feeling a bit better
Rachel Sarah
Posted by tom_traubert on April 18, 2005, at 9:26:44
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by rachel sarah on April 18, 2005, at 7:36:09
thanks again for the responses!
No, I'm not on any psych meds right now, just a med for hypothyroidism. I've done a bunch of cbt, but i haven't seen a therapist in over a year. I'm going today to talk to a cbt therapist and get his take on what I'm going through.
the racing thoughts of anxiety, yes, make me feel that they are the racing thoughts of mania, or that they could become mania, and since I've experienced it in the past, it scares the hell out of me. The one thing that I hold onto is the fact that both manic episodes were preceded by the abrupt withdrawal of a tricyclic and a benzo, anafranil and klonopin. That's pretty major, I know. But the thoughts keep coming and the panic keeps coming in saying that even though the withdrawal preceded the last episodes, maybe it's an underlying condition and all this stress and panic will set it off. Cycling thoughts that keep saying "you're going manic" which is the same of anxiety disorders that say "you're going to lose it, you're going crazy!" It's like a phobia.
For 5 days now I've been having nonstop panic attacks, and hearing your responses haved helped.
tt
Posted by Ritch on April 18, 2005, at 10:11:53
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 18, 2005, at 9:26:44
> thanks again for the responses!
>
> No, I'm not on any psych meds right now, just a med for hypothyroidism. I've done a bunch of cbt, but i haven't seen a therapist in over a year. I'm going today to talk to a cbt therapist and get his take on what I'm going through.
>
> the racing thoughts of anxiety, yes, make me feel that they are the racing thoughts of mania, or that they could become mania, and since I've experienced it in the past, it scares the hell out of me. The one thing that I hold onto is the fact that both manic episodes were preceded by the abrupt withdrawal of a tricyclic and a benzo, anafranil and klonopin. That's pretty major, I know. But the thoughts keep coming and the panic keeps coming in saying that even though the withdrawal preceded the last episodes, maybe it's an underlying condition and all this stress and panic will set it off. Cycling thoughts that keep saying "you're going manic" which is the same of anxiety disorders that say "you're going to lose it, you're going crazy!" It's like a phobia.
>
> For 5 days now I've been having nonstop panic attacks, and hearing your responses haved helped.
>
> tt
Hi, I was just reading your reply and noticed that you are taking medication for hypothyroid. Your thyroid condition might need to be re-checked. Some of your symptoms sound a lot like *hyper*thyroidism. I would call your endocrinologist and set up an appt. and get things checked out. You may just need a dose adjustment of your thyroid med. Hope this helps.. - Mitch
Posted by tom_traubert on April 18, 2005, at 12:25:42
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by Ritch on April 18, 2005, at 10:11:53
thanks for the info on the thyroid--I'm thinking that has something to do with it, but it's so hard to think straight when the panic hits.
does anyone else out there have history with thyroid issues and ocd/mental illness?
tt
Posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2005, at 17:18:00
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by Ritch on April 18, 2005, at 10:11:53
Oh Wow! You hit the nail on the head! My first hospitalization was due to my thyroid. My TSH was up to 22. That caused the most incredible panic attacks. I have Hashimotos thyroiditis, low thyroid. So contrary to what you are led to believe low thyroid can cause anxiety. When they upped my dose of thyroid it calmed me down. But I was and still am on a benzo for anxiety. That will never go away. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by rachel sarah on April 19, 2005, at 5:00:41
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 18, 2005, at 9:26:44
Hi,
Glad the responses have helped you. The sessions you call mania just sound like your having a panic attack about the possibility of going mad. If you were actually going mad, you wouldn't realise it and would not be able to distinguish that your situation isn't real. I had really bad anxiety and always thought I was going mad because of the panicky thoughts and racing thoughts going through my head, but that doesn't mean I was going mad, it was just a reaction to the anxiety.
Have you tried effexor? I have been on it for 8 months and it has really helped. The person I see thought I had OCD as well and says I definately have traits of an obsessive disorder, but I don't think I have. Perhaps you should try Effexor, it is quite good for panic and anxiety.
Rachel Sarah
Posted by tom_traubert on April 19, 2005, at 9:26:36
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by rachel sarah on April 19, 2005, at 5:00:41
I've been thinking about going back on meds, but I don't know. I've been fighting this crap for over six years without it, and it seems like I've been spinning my wheels. Half my energy on even the best days is devoted to calming myself down. I'm scared, I guess, of starting on meds because I feel like I'll be caught in an endless cycle of new meds with different side effects, plus scared of the withdrawal effects of those meds. Isn't effexor really kind of vicious when it comes to coming off? I think I've read some accounts on here of "brain zaps" and other bad things. I don't know, maybe I should give it a shot.
tt
Posted by rachel sarah on April 21, 2005, at 4:05:51
In reply to Re: Really Scared of Manic Episode, posted by tom_traubert on April 19, 2005, at 9:26:36
Hi,
Effexor really sorted me out, I was such a mess before I took it. I think withdrawal is only bad if you come off it too quickly. I am just in the process of coming off it now. The most I was on was 150mg, I was on 75 for most of the time and that was sufficient to calm me down and make me feel better. Now I am tapering off it, I have been on 35mgs for 4 days now and I feel fine. If you forget to take it you can feel pretty bad, but that is the same with all meds.
I have been on Citalipram (cipramil) I came off that because I put loads of weight on, and I just stopped it myself without talking to a doctor, I got those brain zaps too. I also couldn't stop crying for days. Coming off Effexor has been a lot easier, because I am doing it properly. If I ever feel how I used to I would go back on it again, the only annoying thing is I put on half a stone, which is why I am coming off it this time.
It sounds like you are struggling too much without medication, good luck with trying to find the right one. If you ask your doctor for a medication make sure you tell them about all the panicky feelings because it is important they give you the right one. They kept putting me on anti-depressants when I wasn't depressed, just anxious and panicky. I think effexor worked because it is licensed for GAD, which is waht I have.
Good luck
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