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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on March 11, 2005, at 1:42:20
1. Can anyone think of any substances that can penatrate through the blood brain barrier....and NOT have some form of strong immediate effect ??
2. Do most people here now believe that the majority of the once touted...."totaly safe" ssris do have addiction and withdrawal as a main side effect and danger??3. Does anyone ever wonder why sample packs of ssris come usualy in a six week quatnity ???
MY ANSWERS
1. Aspirin,caffiene,tobbaco,nicotine,chocalte,sugar,benzos,weed,street drugs,coke,lsd,xtasy,ghb,pain killers,i,e ultram,vicodene,otc herbs,kava kava,sleeping pills both otc and script,somanex,ambien,....well every substance,be it a script drug,otc drug,or whatever else have you that can cross the brain as listed above prsent a effect on the brain in some way,one there is appearant up penatration.
Wait,there is one i forgot,....a drug syntheicaly created TO INDEED penatrate the blood brain barrier are ssris,and they are not suppposed to present any effect,or significant effect until 4- 6 weels,wow one type of drug out of everything else,thats quite a drug.Can any one thing of any others than anti deprassants?
2. Simple one,there is now more than enough documented cases found on internet news groups,on broadcast news,as well as a personal exeper or someone who knows another where addiction of these anti depressants are noted.In fact the companys themselves now have to acnowledge it.
3. Most trials were six weeks in lentgh,4-6 weeks are what the professionals claim is the amount of time the medications take to "build up" in ones system.Just a thought,but could it not be that most of these anti depressants like every other god forsaken drug will have most of their effect appearent in 48 hours?
Yess i can see levels building up,also i can see six weeks of the feeling you got on the SECOND day being neecassy to stablize a person,providing long enough treatment to give consistent everyday relief.
However six weeks to build up to where it will provide its main RELIEF,come one.
Maybe just maybe you are getting from the drug on day two the effect,and maybe just maybe six weeks of the drug whether its helpful or not will be enough of it to alter your brain in a way where abrupt withdrawal from it will now be after six weeks of continous consumption,and now ur brain has to deal with that on top of the orignal depression........i had many people argue this,but how does an average person know,how can the average joe back these docs theory up when logic itself,concerning every other single brain entering substance says different.
How can the average joe back this theory up so strongly when so many people have called their docs on the second or third week to tell them they feel worse,heightened anxiety,only to be told the med hasent kicked in yet,.........and how many of these people are FAILURES to their doc cause the med never does kick in,and they visit their doc six weeks later barly mobile,only to have the doc raise the damn thing or add something else to it,when the paitients body is BEGGING to have this substance removed.
Why can no one view this as an possability,what solid evidence have the docters shown to prove these drugs need six weeks to build to therputic levels,more so what other class of drugs has this same type of approach?
Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2005, at 17:22:23
In reply to 3 QUESTIONS TO PONDER......, posted by willyee on March 11, 2005, at 1:42:20
I've always stopped any drug that I'm having a side-effect to. Back in the 70's, I had my first panic attack. The pdoc gave me a TCA that kept me up all night crying, and walking around the block. I never took it again. I became stabalized on valium and meprobomate. I stopped the drugs when I didn't need them anymore. Over the years, one other doc tried a TCA, again bad effects, so stopped. Benzos the only thing that worked for me. Then the SSRI's. The first time I took Paxil at a low dose of l0mg, I took xanax with it. I stopped the paxil after about l l/2yrs. No problem until my thyroid got more hypo. Anxiety up so put on Luvox. No side effects. Stayed on this until pdoc wanted me to try Celexa which I didn't want to try. From that point on, I was put on one after the other and stopped them due to side effects after a few days. I was always put back on subtheraputic doses of paxil or luvox, with a benzo. Now my body doesn't seem to care. I'm tolerating remeron l5mg, and zoloft 25mg with low doses of valium. Supposed to up zoloft. Will I? I doubt it. Why should I. I'm at least functional and sleeping. And, the next thing you know they will start pulling AD's off the market like Vioxx etc. Sorry I'm so wordy. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on March 11, 2005, at 18:12:52
In reply to Re: 3 QUESTIONS TO PONDER...... » willyee, posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2005, at 17:22:23
You make some really good points. Antidepressants, with a few exceptions (amoxapine and amineptine..the latter isn't sold in Europe or North America anymore, though) antidepressants have major gaps between initiation of treatment and therapeutic effect. The newest explanation for this that I've heard is that AD therapy promotes growth/re-growth of brain cells, which apparently takes a while. I suppose this growth is a good thing (though it kind of freaks me out), but there are major shortcomings in embracing drugs that take weeks to work, often have significant side-effects, have only a slight advantage over placebo (ESPECIALLY in unpublished, "in-house" studies), and have a DEFINITE withdrawal syndrome. I'm also kind of concerned about the lack of attention paid to problems with SSRIs. Tricyclics have been around since the 1950s, and it has looong been known that they cause side-effects and have a withdrawal syndrome. Obviously, same deal for the MAOIs. Why did psychiatrists, and psychiatry as a whole, ignore the legions of patients who were straight up telling them that drug X caused major problems? And the studies for the SSRIs flat-out suck...mostly very short-term data, even though long-term treatment is now being recommended. I understand drug company greed--I despise it, but I understand it-- but I cannot find any reasonable excuse for the unprofessional, unscientific, often callous behavior of many docs and shrinks who 1) accepted the crap data wholesale 2) created and create med regimines without supporting data and 3)ignored and continue to ignore the problems of the very people they claim to "treat" and "care for".
This is the end of the thread.
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