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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zuzu80 on May 14, 2004, at 16:06:45
Hello
This question is directed to ppl who suffer from Social Anxiety.
What effect Klonopin has on how much you talk?
I am almost totally inhibited around people and talk very little. Can Klonopin make me more talkative?
Thanks,
Christine
Posted by finelinebob on May 14, 2004, at 16:24:25
In reply to Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ??, posted by zuzu80 on May 14, 2004, at 16:06:45
I think utopizen had some really good points on the thread you had above -- you're fine the way you are. If you want to add to that or push your boundaries, that's good too, but don't think that you're starting from some deficit.
I think that if klonopin reduces your anxiety and inhibitions in a social setting, then it can enable you to talk more freely. That does not mean that you will. Being someone who is "painfully shy", I know there are a lot of social skills I never learned -- no medication is going to give them to me.
So, if your meds make you feel comfortable, you will be in a position to start working on being more talkative in social situations. Talk with your therapist about some concrete strategies you could try and set yourself some modest goals -- then act on them. Don't be disappointed if things don't go well the first or fifth time, it does take practice.
hth,
flb
Posted by zeugma on May 14, 2004, at 16:58:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ?? » zuzu80, posted by finelinebob on May 14, 2004, at 16:24:25
<I think that if klonopin reduces your anxiety and inhibitions in a social setting, then it can enable you to talk more freely. That does not mean that you will. Being someone who is "painfully shy", I know there are a lot of social skills I never learned -- no medication is going to give them to me.>
I think this is true, but there is more to it than that. I mean that if someone is not merely "painfully shy," but suffers from true social phobia/avoidant personality disorder, it is not a lack of social skills that causes the inhibition. it is a disproportionate, uncontrollable reaction to social stimuli, and things like CBT become a farce compared to the way Klonopin can treat this disorder.
Posted by Kon on May 14, 2004, at 17:28:59
In reply to Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ??, posted by zuzu80 on May 14, 2004, at 16:06:45
> I am almost totally inhibited around people and talk very little. Can Klonopin make me more talkative?
If anxiety is the reason for your inhibition, then Klonopin will likely make you more talkative and social. When I'm on Klonopin I'm much more social because anxiety doesn't get in the way. On the other hand, if anxiety isn't the reason for your inhibition, I suspect Klonopin or any anti-anxiety drug may not be that helpful.
Posted by zuzu80 on May 14, 2004, at 18:18:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ?? » finelinebob, posted by zeugma on May 14, 2004, at 16:58:10
> <I think that if klonopin reduces your anxiety and inhibitions in a social setting, then it can enable you to talk more freely. That does not mean that you will. Being someone who is "painfully shy", I know there are a lot of social skills I never learned -- no medication is going to give them to me.>
>
> I think this is true, but there is more to it than that. I mean that if someone is not merely "painfully shy," but suffers from true social phobia/avoidant personality disorder, it is not a lack of social skills that causes the inhibition. it is a disproportionate, uncontrollable reaction to social stimuli, and things like CBT become a farce compared to the way Klonopin can treat this disorder.
>
>Thanks for the replies so far.
I agree about the CBT thing.
I have 3 CBT books and I REALLY tried to make the exercises but it's toooo difficult. Almost impossiple.I have Avoidant Personality Disorder. I mean I got this diagnoses from 2 Psychologists.
It looks like Klonopin can help me. Hope so
Posted by finelinebob on May 14, 2004, at 20:39:34
In reply to Re: Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ?? » finelinebob, posted by zeugma on May 14, 2004, at 16:58:10
> I think this is true, but there is more to it than that. I mean that if someone is not merely "painfully shy," but suffers from true social phobia/avoidant personality disorder, it is not a lack of social skills that causes the inhibition. it is a disproportionate, uncontrollable reaction to social stimuli, and things like CBT become a farce compared to the way Klonopin can treat this disorder.
All that is true. I use "painfully shy" here as a euphemism for social anxiety/related disorders. When there is a biological substrate to some behavioral issue, CBT just ain't going to cut it. What I wanted to stress was that klonopin or other such meds can get you to a place where things like CBT can take you the rest of the way -- but they're not going to take you all the way.
Well, unless you're a natural schmoozer, viciously cut-off from your true calling by the despotic rule of a few misguided, aberrant genes.... ;^)
flb
Posted by zeugma on May 15, 2004, at 12:59:28
In reply to Re: Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ?? » zeugma, posted by finelinebob on May 14, 2004, at 20:39:34
> > I think this is true, but there is more to it than that. I mean that if someone is not merely "painfully shy," but suffers from true social phobia/avoidant personality disorder, it is not a lack of social skills that causes the inhibition. it is a disproportionate, uncontrollable reaction to social stimuli, and things like CBT become a farce compared to the way Klonopin can treat this disorder.
>
> All that is true. I use "painfully shy" here as a euphemism for social anxiety/related disorders. When there is a biological substrate to some behavioral issue, CBT just ain't going to cut it. What I wanted to stress was that klonopin or other such meds can get you to a place where things like CBT can take you the rest of the way -- but they're not going to take you all the way.
>
> Well, unless you're a natural schmoozer, viciously cut-off from your true calling by the despotic rule of a few misguided, aberrant genes.... ;^)
>
> flbI agree that Klonopin or any med isn't going to reverse behavioral patterns that have taken years to become entrenched. It's important to note that the average age of onset of social phobia is around 10, while the average age of those seeking treatment for this disorder is around 30. That's 20 years of 'biologically enforced' avoidance, and who can say what the effect on one's 'natural' personality is? when so many of us are forced to live lives based around our anxiety? Not to mention that social phobia is often comorbid with other disorders, above all depression, which takes its own, enormous toll.
I feel bitter about my CBT trial, because I was convinced that Klonopin, or Nardil, would have made the process workable instead of driving me up the walls with terrible anxiety. My CB therapist, to whom I mentioned these concerns, seemed to take my desire to augment therapy with appropriate meds as a sign that I was looking to avoid the hard work that CBT inevitably involves. The bible of CBT, David Burns' "Feeling Good", blasts benzodiazepines as addictive, escapist, and likely to interfere with the CBT process, uniquely among classes of psychotropic meds (he endorses the use of AD's in conjunction with CBT). The problem I have isn't simply that burns doesn't like benzos. the problem I have concerns the misunderstandings that circulate among mental health professionals, including therapists, psychiatrists, and leading researchers in the field, about what even meds that have been around as long as benzos actually do in terms of therapeutic effect.
As an example, consider the work of Joseph LeDoux, a leading researcher in the field of of fear and anxiety, and author of "Synaptic Self", an otherwise brilliant book which contains a number of important errors, significantly concerning the medications used to treat the disorders of fear and anxiety. he says on page 275,
"Over the past decade or so, a number of different SSRI's have been marketed, including Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, and celexa. These drugs are as effective as tricyclics in helping depressed people, but probably not more so. This is to be expected, since both classes of drug basically do the same thing- make more serotinin available at synapses. But the SSRI's do the job with fewer side effects- they are selective for serotonin, so the side effects caused by enhancing norepinephrine are eliminated."
This is an outrageous error, and sets off all kinds of alarm bells when he later touts SSRI's as doing basically the same thing as benzos, but with fewer side effects. There is a very strong argument to be made that not only are SSRi's significantly less effective for depression than TCA's, that their side effect profile is actually FAR worse (I would rather have a dry mouth and constipation than amotivation and emotional blunting, for example) and that SSRI's are also far more s/e-ridden, not to mention unequivocally less effective, in cases of severe anxiety than benzos. When one of the experts in the field can make statements like these, it makes me wonder where else the lights are out, too. A disquieting thought.
Posted by sammyjo on May 16, 2004, at 12:51:45
In reply to Re: Klonopin - Makes you talk more or less ?? » zuzu80, posted by finelinebob on May 14, 2004, at 16:24:25
I have taken Klonopin for 4 years..it literally saved me from life as an agoraphobic, difference in talking? I am not sure..I always talk too much.
Sammyjo
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