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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on March 18, 2004, at 21:41:30
Lately I have been reading of many people suffering the typical poop-out syndrome within the context of MAOI therapy. I am doing more research to try and present remedies for this.
These agents can be used...
1. Nardil + Lithium
2. Nardil + Lithium + L-Tryptophan ('Newcastle Cocktail')
3. Nardil + Pindolol (can make depression worse but)
4. Nardil 105-120mg
5. Nardil + Amisulpride
6. Nardil + Zyprexa
7. Nardil + Risperidone
8. Nardil + Psychostimulant
Does anyone know of any that I missed?I have read on another forum about people who have wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil but, after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms.
Any ideas much appreciated...
Ace
Posted by action on March 19, 2004, at 0:32:35
In reply to Reversing MAOI poop-out, posted by ace on March 18, 2004, at 21:41:30
> Lately I have been reading of many people suffering the typical poop-out syndrome within the context of MAOI therapy. I am doing more research to try and present remedies for this.
>
> These agents can be used...
>
> 1. Nardil + Lithium
>
> 2. Nardil + Lithium + L-Tryptophan ('Newcastle Cocktail')
>
> 3. Nardil + Pindolol (can make depression worse but)
>
> 4. Nardil 105-120mg
>
> 5. Nardil + Amisulpride
>
> 6. Nardil + Zyprexa
>
> 7. Nardil + Risperidone
>
> 8. Nardil + Psychostimulant
>
>
> Does anyone know of any that I missed?
>
> I have read on another forum about people who have wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil but, after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms.
>
> Any ideas much appreciated...
>
> Ace
>
>I am one of those people who experienced the " typical poop-out syndrome" with Nardil.
I also had: "wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil" and also "after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms."
The best days of my life was when Nardil was working.....
Increasing the dosage did not work for me.
One thing I have read about is switching to another MAO such as Parnate. Though Parnate is supposedly not as effective treatment for SA...
Good luck.
> These agents can be used...
Posted by djmmm on March 19, 2004, at 19:22:04
In reply to Reversing MAOI poop-out, posted by ace on March 18, 2004, at 21:41:30
> Lately I have been reading of many people suffering the typical poop-out syndrome within the context of MAOI therapy. I am doing more research to try and present remedies for this.
>
> These agents can be used...
>
> 1. Nardil + Lithium
>
> 2. Nardil + Lithium + L-Tryptophan ('Newcastle Cocktail')
>
> 3. Nardil + Pindolol (can make depression worse but)
>
> 4. Nardil 105-120mg
>
> 5. Nardil + Amisulpride
>
> 6. Nardil + Zyprexa
>
> 7. Nardil + Risperidone
>
> 8. Nardil + Psychostimulant
>
>
> Does anyone know of any that I missed?
>
> I have read on another forum about people who have wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil but, after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms.
>
> Any ideas much appreciated...
>
> Ace
>
>What about...
Nardil + T3(liothyronine)
Nardil + Clonazepam
Nardil + Gabapentin
Nardil + psychotherapy
Nardil + DLPA
Nardil + TCA + stimulant (Feighner et al (1985)
Nardil + Tegretol + lithium (Ketter et al 1995)
Nardil + trazadoneFeighner JP, Herbstein J, Damlouji N (1985). Combined MAOI, TCA, and direct stimulant therapy of treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry 46:206-9.
Ketter TA, Post RM, Parekh PI, et al (1995). Addition of monoamine oxidase inhibitors to carbamazepine: Preliminary evidence of safety and antidepressant efficacy in treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry 56:471-5
Posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 20:57:18
In reply to Re: Reversing MAOI poop-out, posted by action on March 19, 2004, at 0:32:35
>
> I am one of those people who experienced the " typical poop-out syndrome" with Nardil.
>
> I also had: "wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil" and also "after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms."Why exactly was the drug stopped?? At what dose were you having these wonderful feelings?
>
> The best days of my life was when Nardil was working.....
>
> Increasing the dosage did not work for me.
OK. What did you increase to, and most importantly FOR HOW LONG...?>
> One thing I have read about is switching to another MAO such as Parnate. Though Parnate is supposedly not as effective treatment for SA...
>
> Good luck.
>
>
Action- are you still on Nardil now? Can you tell me if you tried to make Nardil work again with augmentation?I am really going to try and solve this problem...As someone stated enzyme induction could have something to do with it...
Posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 21:03:59
In reply to Re: Reversing MAOI poop-out, posted by djmmm on March 19, 2004, at 19:22:04
> > Lately I have been reading of many people suffering the typical poop-out syndrome within the context of MAOI therapy. I am doing more research to try and present remedies for this.
> >
> > These agents can be used...
> >
> > 1. Nardil + Lithium
> >
> > 2. Nardil + Lithium + L-Tryptophan ('Newcastle Cocktail')
> >
> > 3. Nardil + Pindolol (can make depression worse but)
> >
> > 4. Nardil 105-120mg
> >
> > 5. Nardil + Amisulpride
> >
> > 6. Nardil + Zyprexa
> >
> > 7. Nardil + Risperidone
> >
> > 8. Nardil + Psychostimulant
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of any that I missed?
> >
> > I have read on another forum about people who have wonderful, euphoric effects from Nardil but, after the drug was stopped and restarted, they only then achieved partial remission of symptoms.
> >
> > Any ideas much appreciated...
> >
> > Ace
> >
> >
>
> What about...
>
> Nardil + T3(liothyronine)
> Nardil + Clonazepam
> Nardil + Gabapentin
> Nardil + psychotherapy
> Nardil + DLPA
> Nardil + TCA + stimulant (Feighner et al (1985)
> Nardil + Tegretol + lithium (Ketter et al 1995)
> Nardil + trazadone
>
> Feighner JP, Herbstein J, Damlouji N (1985). Combined MAOI, TCA, and direct stimulant therapy of treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry 46:206-9.
>
> Ketter TA, Post RM, Parekh PI, et al (1995). Addition of monoamine oxidase inhibitors to carbamazepine: Preliminary evidence of safety and antidepressant efficacy in treatment-resistant depression. J Clin Psychiatry 56:471-5
And if all these fail Djmmm? What about Xanax?If that would do the trick how long would Xanax have to be added you think, and at what dose?
What is your take on this poop-out?
Why would a drug work wonderful, as in the case of Action, and then after stopping and restarting, it only worked partially...whats your opinion, and what do YOU personally feel is best action taken?
Ace...
Posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 23:45:13
In reply to Re: Reversing MAOI poop-out, posted by djmmm on March 19, 2004, at 19:22:04
> Nardil + DLPA
I am particularly interested in this idea, Djmmm.I believe it is officially contraindicated but do you see much in the way of deleterious effects.
Also, at what dose and for how long would you suggest for one to recapture Nardil's AD effect?.
Do you see DLPA being superior to folic acid, B-complex, Inositol, for regaining Nardil's AD effects?.
Thanks,
Ace.
Posted by sobeit on March 20, 2004, at 21:28:13
In reply to Re: Reversing MAOI poop-out » djmmm, posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 23:45:13
I am currently 4 weeks into a trial of Nardil 60mg, omega-3 fish oil supplements, B vitamin complex and amino acids supplement. I'm going to give it 12 weeks and then see if I can reduce Nardil to 30mg and still be effective against depression. Past attempts have been unsuccessful, although I never tried supplementing. I'm sure the symptoms of social anxiety will begin to reappear, but I've become better at handling them. My concern is that Nardil has been the only effective med for me, so I don't want to build up a tolerence to it and have to begin searching for an alternative med. I figure the lower I can keep the effective dosage, the longer I'm likely to benefit from it.
Posted by djmmm on March 21, 2004, at 19:31:35
In reply to Re: Reversing MAOI poop-out » djmmm, posted by ace on March 19, 2004, at 23:45:13
>
>
> > Nardil + DLPA
>
>
> I am particularly interested in this idea, Djmmm.
>
> I believe it is officially contraindicated but do you see much in the way of deleterious effects.Not really, I have used all of the following amino acids with both Nardil and Parnate
L-Isoleucine 5160 mg
L-Leucine 9040 mg
L-Valine 5380 mg
L-Lysine 7740 mg
Methionine 1870 mg
L-Phenylalanine 3500 mg
L-Threonine 5030 mg
L-Tryptophan 1340 mg
L-Alanine 3760 mg
L-Arginine 2620 mg
L-Aspartic Acid 8380 mg
L-Cystine 360 mg
L-Glutamic Acid 16900 mg
L-Glycine 1800 mg
L-Histidine 2120 mg
L-Proline 6750 mg
L-Serine 2930 mg
L-Tyrosine 2780 mg>
> Also, at what dose and for how long would you suggest for one to recapture Nardil's AD effect?.I believe that any balanced amino acid supplement would be helpful for everyone....I'm not a big believer in increasing the dosage of a medication to counteract "poop out" (I believe that it is most likely (predominately) a psychological phenomena...although, I believe some "poop-out" may actually be caused by an OVER abundance of serotonin, since symptoms of "poop-out" are strikingly similar to your brain being "flooded" with serotonin (which has a myriad of effects on multiple neurotransmitter systems)
>
> Do you see DLPA being superior to folic acid, B-complex, Inositol, for regaining Nardil's AD effects?.I would put it in the same category, I don't know if it is superior or inferior to B- vitamins. Regarding Nardil, I would say that a strong B-complex is necessary for anyone on a hydrazine-type antidepressant to prevent peripheral neuropathy.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ace.
This is the end of the thread.
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