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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on March 19, 2004, at 11:41:50
Things have just been plain *horrible*...a nightmare...turning into decades. I have found something, though, that can treat both depression and anxiety very, very quickly...but the effect is not long- lasting...and I wouldn’t suggest doing this long term.
After a week of sleeping 14 hour days...usually asleep by 5 am, awake at 5-6pm, last night I slep’t what I could...2 hours..12 to 2 am, and I have been awake all day (it is know 12:30 PM..just after lunch.) I feel a weird mix of awful, but also feels like a bit of a very nice drug rush...and I am coherent and have gone about morning tasks nicely. I have read that sleep deprivation is this *jolt* that whacks the body back into feeling better,,,but I don’t know how. One theory I have heard is that during sleep your dopamine activity drops, hence the ‘hangover’ feeling of us depressives. So, keeping the dopamine system nice and active all night (mind you...with little stimulation), the morning doesn’t feel so “groggy”. Maybe this will help me get a normal sleep pattern, where 6-8 hours are max, is best for me. I have even gotten midly hypomanic, in a nice way, with sleep deprivation, and my mind suddenly thinks and feels so much more calmer and focused. For a person with major depression and deep social phobia and GAD, I would suggest to try. (Do it when you are not working...or have something important to do, until you test it out.) You won’t believe how *WELL* you actually feel. I might caution against this with bipolars, though, as it might really switch you to hypermania. Having burried myself under the covers for so long, days, weeks, months on end, this really is a very fast and useful quick-fix (just temporary though). The idea being...if you can pull yourself out of a “funk” this way, better things may come. I also see it as a medicine, a treatment with likely the most powerful antidepressant around.
Anyhow...think about it...prepare for it (i.e. least stressful day...a non-working day..), and give it a whirl. I have a feeling many will be surprised.
Best,
Jay
Posted by CarolW on March 19, 2004, at 13:34:45
In reply to Drugs vs.Sleep deprivation, posted by jay on March 19, 2004, at 11:41:50
Believe me, after suffering from insomnia for the past three months since I got off Zoloft and Ativan, the perks of sleep deprivation are gone -replaced by constant tiredness/delirousness and difficulty concentrating. I just want to sleep normally again!
Posted by linkadge on March 19, 2004, at 19:55:30
In reply to Re: Drugs vs.Sleep deprivation, posted by CarolW on March 19, 2004, at 13:34:45
I know what you are saying Jay. If you are going to do it though you have to do it.
Sleep deprivation doesn't mean lying down with the lights out tossing and turning. It means getting right out of bed with the lights on and doing something else. You've got to be strict but it certainly does work.
I knew a guy who combined sleep deprivation with high doses of vitamin C for his depression. The viatmin C surpressed the cortisol which can go high because of lack of sleep.
Linkadge
Posted by Sooshi on March 20, 2004, at 8:27:30
In reply to Drugs vs.Sleep deprivation, posted by jay on March 19, 2004, at 11:41:50
I agree with you Jay!
I've been doing sleep deprivation for years. Too much sleeping only worsens my depression. When I feel my mood spiraling downward (as my depression comes on fast), I will purposefully deprive myself of sleep. Usually getting up during the night and staying up...that means not sitting around, staring at the walls, but doing something, just as if it were the middle of the day. This seems to "re-set" my brain chemistry, and I feel so much better, especially the next day. I'm not even tired. Not recommended for insomniacs, though...for obvious reasons.
Just my .02
Posted by Questionmark on March 21, 2004, at 12:41:09
In reply to Re: Drugs vs.Sleep deprivation, posted by Sooshi on March 20, 2004, at 8:27:30
And get this-- i found this fascinating when i first read this about a month ago... i read in some magazine (wasn't a scientific journal, and i'm pRETTy they cited a study, but i cannot remember for sure) that sleep deprivation somehow inhibits the reuptake of certain neurotransmitters-- yes, not just one-- "certain" or "various" or something.
It made me think of a couple or so depressed friends of mine who stay awake for ungodly hours oftentimes/sometimes-- as well as myself (although that is probably more due to my sick disease of perpetual procratination)-- and that maybe at least some of them/us are unwittingly "medicating" themselves, with sleep deprivation. For me it's bizarre, because i feel like if i sleep at all-- even like an hour-- the beneficial effects do not come, and i'm just horribly depressed, exhausted, and stupid. But if i stay awake the enTIRE night, then the next day i often feel significantly more happy and
disinhibited.
Posted by zeugma on March 21, 2004, at 15:37:26
In reply to Re: Sleep deprivation, posted by Questionmark on March 21, 2004, at 12:41:09
Until I started taking medication that worked (TCA + buspirone), if for any reason I needed to be awake in the morning, I would stay up all night. This made me feel like a human being in the morning, but of course came with its cost; additional sleep disruption and distortion of my (already chaotic) sleep cycle.
When I was in college, I would routinely stay up two, even three nights in a row to write my papers and study for my exams. Then I would collapse and sleep for like a week. I am in graduate school now and I am trying to find a better way of writing papers. Even though I'm sleeping better, and my mind is functioning better, the association between late nights and study sessions is almost unbreakable. I wrote the first chapter of my thesis in January after staying up all night, and became a wreck at work for the remainder of the week. The thing is that my reuptake problem should be fixed by my meds, but I still get that extra kick in the early mornings.
Posted by Cruz on March 21, 2004, at 18:01:18
In reply to Re: Sleep deprivation, posted by zeugma on March 21, 2004, at 15:37:26
For many years I used sleep deprivation to escape from depression. After 2 nights without sleep, I would resume sleeping from 9 pm to 5 am the depression would stay away for exactly 2 weeks.
When it returned I would forgo sleep for 2 nights again. This repeatedly worked until I had a motorcyle accident in which my testicle were severely bruised. Ever since then sleep deprivation is not effective. The evidence is that my Sertoli cells that produce Inhibin B were damaged in the accident. It's just my own theory at this point, but I am convinced Inhibin B is what is responsible for the antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation. As of now the wide spread belief of researchers is that the only function of Inhibin B is surpressing FSH. Back in 1992 a study was done at the U of Washington by Bremner and McGlocklin in which they concluded that with the levels of Inhibin B that they measured in brain and spinal fluid, it must have a more significant role in the CNS. That conclusion seems to be overlooked. Particularly by researchers doing studies of mood disorders in women. They routinely note a markedly reduced level of Inhibin B in depressed cases, but consider it not a factor because Inhibin B only surpresses FSH. Wrong! Eventually some research group will wake up and smell the coffee.
Posted by MrSandman on April 13, 2004, at 16:26:09
In reply to Re: Sleep deprivation » zeugma, posted by Cruz on March 21, 2004, at 18:01:18
I've practiced Sleep Deprivation (SD, also euphemistically called "wake therapy") intermittently for nearly for nearly two decades. Despite the pitfalls observed by other posters, it remains the single most powerful treatment of the dozens I've tried.
Many recent studies suggest that SD can be facilitated and relapse avoided by precise schedule manipulations, certain medications, or phototherapy. (See the abstracts @ http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.sleepdep.html) There's no consensus- like so much of clinical medicine, choosing the best treatment is largely a matter of trial and error.
By the way, I've found that sunlight, Wellbutrin, and excercise complement my SD program nicely. It's also important to pace myself during the day. My greatest success with SD came when I was on Lithium and Wellbutrin- 15 months of nearly normal life. Alas, renal problems forced me to quit the Lithium, SD became more difficult, and depression waylaid me once again.I look forward to swapping tips and tales about the Sleep Deprivation "lifestyle."
***WARNING!:Sleep deprivation frequently induces mania. Discuss the risk with your doctor and develop a contigency plan.***
This is the end of the thread.
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