![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 14:39:01
Taking Zyprexa and Abilify together, do they cancel each others effects, or just side-effects. Does anyone do this combo? When Abilify first came out I was told not to mix the 2 because they would cancle each other. Now I am being told to take them together, which should I belive? Any insights or knowledge?
Thanks
Sebastian
Posted by SLS on December 14, 2003, at 14:59:33
In reply to Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 14:39:01
Hi Sebastian.
> Taking Zyprexa and Abilify together, do they cancel each others effects, or just side-effects. Does anyone do this combo? When Abilify first came out I was told not to mix the 2 because they would cancle each other. Now I am being told to take them together, which should I belive? Any insights or knowledge?
Exactly which effects would be cancelled-out?- Scott
Posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 15:06:36
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by SLS on December 14, 2003, at 14:59:33
Thats the part I was not told.
Posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 15:12:42
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by SLS on December 14, 2003, at 14:59:33
I've been taking the 2 for 1.5 weeks, and it seem that the tiredness cancels, anxiety cancles, eating cancles. I do feel madicated, a little more anxiety than with just zyprexa, but seems to get better.
I was wondering if + effects cancle? Anyone know?
Posted by SLS on December 14, 2003, at 15:53:40
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 15:12:42
> I was wondering if + effects cancle? Anyone know?I don't think the therapeutic effects of one are cancelled by the other. What symptoms of your illness are you trying to treat? Abilify can produce anxiety and insomnia sometimes - something akin to akathisia. With me, these things disappeared over time. It gave me a pretty decent antidepressant effect for awhile. There should be no safety issues with combining Zyprexa with Abilify. I'm not sure it makes sense to theorize how one might negate the other on a biological level. What is most important is whether or not such negation or cancellation of therapeutic effect is observed clinically. A friend of mine did not experience any "cancellation" of the antipsychotic effects of Risperdal by adding Abilify. She did, however, gain an antidepressant effect.
- Scott
Posted by hawkeye on December 14, 2003, at 16:52:29
In reply to Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by Sebastian on December 14, 2003, at 14:39:01
I'm no psychopharmacologist, BUT it seems to me that in using the two together, the Zyprexa would defeat the unique "partial agonist" mechanism of Abilify.
Abilify acts as a weak stimulator (so-called "partial" agonist) at dopamine D2 receptors, with the potential for exerting either antagonistic (inhibitory) or agonistic (stimulating) effects, depending on the sensitivity of the receptors and availability of dopamine, its natural agonist in the brain. [Abilify also has similar actions at serotonin 5-HT1A receptors, as well as acting as an antagonist at serotonin 5-HT2A receptors, and having a number of other lesser actions.]
In other words, partial agonism refers to the ability of a drug to block a receptor if it is overstimulated or in competition with a natural agonist, such as dopamine and serotonin themselves, but also to stimulate a receptor when the natural agonist is unavailable. These are unprecedented properties in a clinically effective antipsychotic agent.
Zyprexa acts as a full agonist at the D2 recptor. Therefore, it would seem that any advantages offered by Abilify's partial agonist mechanism would be drowned by Zyprexa's full agonist mechanism.
Posted by SLS on December 14, 2003, at 17:12:17
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by hawkeye on December 14, 2003, at 16:52:29
> Zyprexa acts as a full agonist at the D2 recptor. Therefore, it would seem that any advantages offered by Abilify's partial agonist mechanism would be drowned by Zyprexa's full agonist mechanism.
I imagine you meant to say "Zyprexa's full antagonist mechanism".
I had thought about that, but Abilify binds to the D2 receptor much more tightly than Zyprexa, so I don't think Zyprexa would knock Abilify loose from postsynaptic receptors.
- Scott
Posted by cybercafe on December 15, 2003, at 9:12:33
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by hawkeye on December 14, 2003, at 16:52:29
> I'm no psychopharmacologist, BUT it seems to me that in using the two together, the Zyprexa would defeat the unique "partial agonist" mechanism of Abilify.
>
> Abilify acts as a weak stimulator (so-called "partial" agonist) at dopamine D2 receptors, with the potential for exerting either antagonistic (inhibitory) or agonistic (stimulating) effects, depending on the sensitivity of the receptors and availability of dopamine, its natural agonist in the brain. [Abilify also has similar actions at serotonin 5-HT1A receptors, as well as acting as an antagonist at serotonin 5-HT2A receptors, and having a number of other lesser actions.]
>
> In other words, partial agonism refers to the ability of a drug to block a receptor if it is overstimulated or in competition with a natural agonist, such as dopamine and serotonin themselves, but also to stimulate a receptor when the natural agonist is unavailable. These are unprecedented properties in a clinically effective antipsychotic agent.
>
> Zyprexa acts as a full agonist at the D2 recptor. Therefore, it would seem that any advantages offered by Abilify's partial agonist mechanism would be drowned by Zyprexa's full agonist mechanism.
if you are SZ and have way too much dopamine hitting your receptors, zyprexa would block some of the receptors and abilify would block others (or partially agonize) no? depending on the dosehowever taking the two together does certainly not mean you are going to lose all (any?) AP activity.... in large doses (which i don't think sebastian is taking), either the over active receptors are going to be blocked by zyprexa or by abilify ....... but they will be blocked and therepeutic effects will be seen
Posted by Sebastian on December 15, 2003, at 22:18:23
In reply to Re: Zyprexa Abilify cancel each other?, posted by hawkeye on December 14, 2003, at 16:52:29
So you are saying that the two add in power plus selection of many more receptors? Makes sense, thanks.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.