![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 18:18:53
In reply to Re: WOW » Eddie Sylvano, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:17:57
> I married to continue an existance that I found acceptable. Make any sense?
--------I can appreciate the fact that it is sooooo difficult to find "real" people. I've spent plenty of time looking, and have been lucky to finally find one.
I feel like everyone else has objectives that satisfy them (career, appearance, global social approbation), and I'm off in left field watching ants, or staring at clouds (literally. I do this.). It's supposedly cool the be different or "quirky," but it really isn't enjoyable to be unable to relate to the vast majority of people in the world. Unique needs to fit into the fat part of the bell curve to be appreciated.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 17, 2003, at 21:11:57
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 18:02:28
Interesting article about Asperger's -- my 24 y.o. cousin has been in complete remission from this disorder for several years due to a combination of fluoxetine 5mg, clozapine 25mg b.i.d., and Adderall 5mg q.i.d., so I pretty much have to believe that drug treatment is possible.
Posted by fachad on September 17, 2003, at 22:14:20
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
I have many things in common with your experience(s) of life. I'll share a few ideas, and link to some older posts pertinent to those ideas, because I'm too lazy to re-type them.
I have been having the sense of philosophical emptiness for as long as I have been able to reflect on my experience.
I majored in philosophy in college, because it seemed like if I could not resolve these existential issues, no vocation would matter or be worth doing.
I responded to stimulants, first Ritalin, then Dexedrine in a major way and have struggled with the same (drug or med) question for years.
Here are a few ponderings...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97442.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97130.html
As to what your REAL diagnosis is, and whether a particular med is the right one for THAT diagnosis, see below
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020408/msgs/103154.html
I have even contemplated the issue in the minds of others, specifically a hypothetical suspicious physician in my future who is reluctant to RX for me.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020416/msgs/103521.html
I think the most productive approach for you would be to leverage your natural intelligence to work on making your life experience better.
To that end, the cognitive, rational-emotive therapies would be ideal. You can buy the works of Albert Ellis and David Burns very cheaply, and work thru them yourself.
I think you would be very impressed by Ellis' (corny titled) "Guide to Rational Living", and if you got the hang of the dialogue, you'd be well on your way to a better philosophical perspective and more pleasant life experience.
Plus, Ellis is also an atheist and has written a title on addiction recovery without resort to supernatural beliefs so predominant in 12 step programs.
If Dexedrine helps, then by all means ask your doctor to RX for it - don't be hung up on DSM diagnosis. But the kind of life problems you are describing will not be resolved by medication, IMHO.
Some people, who are less reflective and more oriented to ordinary life, may do fine with medication only.
But your issues are philosophical at root, and are manifesting behaviorally (including cognitive behavior patterns and resultant emotional experiences) so the intervention needs to be at that level. "Plato not Prozac" is a book that you may find helpful.
I could say a lot more but for time will end here for now.
> I have turned to 'psycho-babble' for advice as I don’t believe I can trust psychiatrists anymore; I have seen several and they always seem to diagnose me differently. I have followed this board for about ten years now, posting infrequently. I know there are some very intelligent people here (salarmy4me, Cam.w st.james to name a few)including pharmacists and doctors. Also, experience speaks for itself.
>
> I am frustrated with my life and chronic 'underachievement' and still have no answers after years of seeking help.
>
> So, I leave my long story in your hands, open to any input, encouragment, ideas, thoughts or advice.
>
> I will begin at the beginning including details which may or may not be relevant (It helps to have all the facts I think). Appreciation to all that read my story, and thanks to those who respond.
>
> I was born in 1974 with an extra thumb on my right hand. The thumb was removed without problem however I was forced to learn to use my left hand to write as my right thumb does not bend. As a child I was a cry-baby and very shy, always seeking my mother for security. This of course drove her nuts over time, and I have been told that on several occaisons she would bribe the neighborhood kids with popsicles to play with me. Predictably, I would cry when they came around and run to her. School started and almost immediately difficulties were evident. I refused to do any type of work whatsoever and was always "day-dreaming", I was not hyperactive at all. At home, I kept myself very very busy with independant projects which I deemed to be important. I invented things, was fascinated by bugs and ants, and had uncanny skills in electronics. At around ten years old I recall having made an electronic burglar alarm system for my room out of a popular magazine. I built and invented many things from scartch and had an insatiable curiosity to know how things worked.
> The point being that outside of school, I appeared to be brilliant yet in the classroom I would produce absolutely nothing. The school became very concerned in grade 4 and decided to have me tested using the WISC-R for a learning disability. Both the school and my parents were absolutely shocked to find that my full-scale score was "at or above the 99th percentile", and that "on a subtest thought to involve practical reasoning, Andrew received a perfect scaled score". My math scores however were at the 37th percentile. After many meetings, an IEP was developed and they decided that I would be put into the county's 'mode3 enhanced learning program'. I didnt like the idea of being stuck in 'nerd class', as I already did not fit in with school kids and was alienated from their activites because I was different.
> So, in grade 5 my life began to go down hill.
> My marks and attention didnt improve with a 'tailored curriculum'; they continued to plumet.
> Report cards from my school years are riddled with remarks like "I am sure if Andrew would apply himself, he would do better" or "Andrew appears to have alot on his mind, little to do with his schoolwork". My memories fail me somewhat, however I believe that I simply just wasnt interested in school work. I wanted to do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. At home I was busy reading my mothers college nursing books, creating things and LEARNING LEARNING LEARNING. But (in retrospect) I think that it was a kind of passive agression which caused me to do absolutely nothing in school; I refused to let anyone tell me what I needed to learn or how to learn it, I was kind of a 'fuck you' attitude. In grade eight I was selected by a Toronto television station out of thousands of written stories to be a 'student reporter'. I remember when the selection committee was interviwing me and the the other finalists, they were blown away by me (or so my father said who was present) I was talking about how I would changed the world and my inventions and how a television worked and my feelings on Hitler and Korea etc. etc. etc. they were fascinated by this young child who was so aware of the world. Anyways I went on t.v. and intervied a blind lady who used a seeing eye dog.
> I dont mean to toot my own horn, I am trying to convey that as a child I was brilliant and had much potential. Everyone saw it. Everyone was perplexed and frustrated that I would not apply myself in school.
> I dropped out of the mode3 program at the end of grade eight, to the dismay of my parents. I was longing to 'fit in' with my peers and felt that this could not be achieved if I was a nerd. So, grade nine I went to a regular high school. It was a nightmare. I was bullied badly for the first two years. I had no friends. I felt different. I failed most of my courses. I went to summer school and night school but I failed there too. My attendance was excellent, but I refused to do written work, homework, or to study. It was at this point in my life that I began to develope very bad self esteem. I was constantly picked on and called things such as a fag, loser, fat boy etc. I remember eating my lunch in the stairwell under the stairs. Perhaps if a teacher or counsellor had have opened their eyes a little they would have seen that what I needed was some support and somone to talk to, NOT more homework or detentions. I dropped out of high school in grade 14 :-) (I stayed an extra year to try to graduate but gave up) I immediately began working in a warehouse and blew every cent on stupid things, never saving (impulsive). My parents were seperating again for the third time and my mother was verbally abusive. This is when I began to take anti deppresants. My doctor gave my Zoloft and it worked ABSOLUTE WONDERS. It was awesome, fantastic, life was beautifull. Colors were more intense, music sounded better, I was sociable for the first time in my life. I couldnt believe it, It was like I had been transformed or put on a different planet. It was like I had woken up from a long nasty nighmare. I stayed on zoloft for about three months and then discontinued it myself because I couldnt achieve orgasm (let alone get it up) anymore. Of course the 'depression' returned. My doctor gave me a new script for zoloft several months later after life became intolerable again. To my dismay it did not work, he upped the dose and it still did not work. Many years and trials later (I am 28) it still does not work. I have tried at least 15 different antideppresants in a seemingly neverending quest to achieve that same profound effect zoloft had. I wonder if it was a 'better than well' reaction that zoloft had given me? Thats what the controversy over prozac was.
>
> I am getting tired of typing, so I will sum it up. Thanks for hanging in this far!
>
> My life is a sad tragic story of a smart kid who never went anywhere. I start 10 things and finish none. I have very low self esteem and I hate myself. I believe I am ugly and worthless. I am feminine and extremely emotional and empathetic, This actually led to a period in my life where I THOUGHT I was gay; women were never atracted to me and people frequently called my gay. So I figured (in my search for belonging) that they must be on to something. I moved to the gay district in Toronto and started working in gay bars and dating gay men. Of course they welcomed me with open arms; this 20 year innocent young guy who was very eccentric and naive to the 'tricks' of men. ****I have nothing against gays and Its not my intention to offend anyone, however those are MY opinions and experiences******
> To my dismay, I soon discovered I was not gay and was left with mountains of sexual guilt.
>
> I am 28 now. Up until a few weeks ago I was working as a child and youth worker in group homes
> (I kind of sneeked my way into the field through volunteering and using connections) I have worked in this field for the last 5 years.
>
> A year ago, I developed a nasty compulsive gambling problem with slot machines. I have blown about 35 thousand dollars. I am going to gamblers anonymous and I guess it helps a little, however, being an agnostic It is difficult to find a 'higher power'. Three weeks ago I gambled again, my whole pay-cheque again. In the last year I have slept in my car, stolen, borrowed, got fired from the best job of my life due to fraud, attempted suicide. Anyways, I blew my cheque and flipped out in a huge ragefull anxiety attack. I was very scared and drove myself to the hospital; they admitted me on a 'form 1' to the psych ward for about a week. After hearing my story, the psychiatrist there concluded that I have ADD. He started me on dexedrine 5mg BID a week ago.
> The dexedrine hasnt really improved my attention or focus I dont think, however, my mood has lifted to something which resembles that zoloft experience I earlier spoke of. I am VERY confused....Everyone responds to dexedrine..right?
> Am I on a medication or a drug (you know what I mean) I feel like I am cheating somehow.
> Aside from this, I have been in a long argument with my G.P. for years, he is the one who has given me the antideppressants over the years. He says I DO NOT have add; I have depression. I raised the add possibility years ago, but he has always dismissed it. He further says that the depression in my life has caused all of my failures and my view that the world is disgusting and that we are animals. I argue
> that the reason I am depressed is that the world is shitty and digusting and meaningless.
>
> Do you see my dilema? He (g.p.) says that I have been rationalizing the depression. I say "NO!" thats just the way the world is and I see it for what it is because I am smart and different.
> That brings to mind another question; does the depressed mind see life as it really is? Or, Is the 'normal' person being denied reality via ample neurotransmitters? I am really fucked up. I dont know what is what anymore, I think too much, over analyse too much, read my dsm too much and I am very introspective.
> I have always felt that I am "different", profoundly different. I just dont fit in. I feel like I have this deep insight into life that other people just dont see. Maybe nothing is wrong with me, and I am just a loser trying to justify (or rationalize) my failures with diagnoses like add or depression. Who knows?
> Another problem is this; I have read that psychiatrists should be very carefull not to misdiagnose gifted people with A.D.D. They can co-exist however, it is rare. Gifted people tend to be all over the place, hence the old saying "there is a fine line between genius and insanity". If this is true, then what is a smart or gifted person to do? Why dont they have a DSM classification for "too smart disorder".
> I feel that my suicidal ideation is increasing, I cant be strong and percevere forever
> I also question my intelligence; "how can somone so smart be such a fuck-up" maybe I was just having a good day when I was tested and it was mere coincidence.
>
> Are you still with me? Thanks.
>
> I read philosophy now, in my search for answers about conciousness and existence. Unfortunately its all pretty discouraging and morbid stuff. Espescially Nietzsche. I have fallen into this kind of lonely alienated pit of my own thought. I dont know how to get out. And the doctors and psychiatrists in my life seem to be just as baffled as I am. Or they say that nothing is wrong with me and that everyone goes through experiences like mine. I think I need a little validation from people of my intelligence sometimes, however its very possible that some doctors are intimadated by it.
> At the heart of me I think my problems might lay in my longing to fit in. However, its very hard to fit in with people when I see them so condescendingly. People are so shallow and crass. They are selfish, jealous, greedy, conforming pigs. Compounding this, I realise that I AM TOO!!
> I am only human. So maybe its my very existence that sickens me? OR am I depressed? OR do I have add? OR am I just a stupid fucking loser who cant deal with it?
>
> WHAT THE HELL IS DEPRESSION???????????????????
>
> I is absolutely impossible to be objective about that matter if the very brain thats looking at the problem is looking at it though 'depressed eyes'. and if I have always been depressed as my g.p. says, then I dont know the difference! I only know MY reality. So therefore that IS reality.
> I am rambling.
>
> I am just really confused about all this. Humankind has been trying to answer these question forever, and for some reason, I feel like I should be able to do it: maybe I am being to hard on myself. If I am basically taking a 'street drug', Dexedrine, and its making me happier (and maybe focusing me a bit but the doctor says that will take 1-2 week to notice) then is it correcting my brain, or is it drugging me? Is it clouding reality? beyond that, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? If you feel good, then who cares? Well, I do, because I feel like I am lying to myself and denying the truth. But.........They say that MY truth is depressed. whatever.
>
> Please help me. I dont want sympathy, just answers.
>
> Thanks for reading all this crap :-) I am actually suprised that I have been sitting here for over an hour typing, my attention and focus must be getting better.
>
> Andrew.
Posted by loolot on September 18, 2003, at 0:35:52
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 17, 2003, at 17:10:24
> How long did you date before you married this guy? I've been through one marriage to an incompatible before. As you said, she didn't really think about anything that wasn't required for her to get through the day. I think a lot of people are like that (or they don't let on otherwise, anyway). It's the difference between people who live in the world, and people who live in their head. If the things in your life don't interest you, you've got nowhere else to go for novelty than into yourself. If only it didn't typically lead to isolation and depression.>>I have noticed that depression makes me question my own judgement. In a situation like this I think a depressed person might think, maybe its just me, he/she is probably interesting to everyone else.
Maybe its not just you!!!
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 18, 2003, at 8:51:37
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by blondegirl47 on September 17, 2003, at 17:33:15
> Do you all let your mates know whats going on in your head?
After getting a few blank looks, I stop trying.
> Its hard to find the engergy and the brain power to think about theories, analyzing things, learning new things and seeing the world when you can't find your keys or the purse you put them in :) te he.
> BlondegirlSure Blondegirl! :) ADD interfered with my thinking. Strattera sure helps that. I can remember where I put my keys and purse now.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 9:05:11
In reply to I could spend hours responding to each item... » zarathustra, posted by fachad on September 17, 2003, at 22:14:20
> But your issues are philosophical at root, and are manifesting behaviorally (including cognitive behavior patterns and resultant emotional experiences) so the intervention needs to be at that level. "Plato not Prozac" is a book that you may find helpful.
---------Do you think that it's the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of their existance that keeps them from depression? I have to wonder how many religious people truly believe the things that they report. I know that studies support the idea that relgion helps people live longer. What about it works? Is it the belief in an afterlife? Religions answer questions, but beyond the fear of death, I don't see people really asking the questions. On the occasions that I've talked to people about their religious beliefs (usually because they're trying to save me, being an atheiest), I come away with the impression that I know more about their religion than they do (12 years of Catholic school does that).
Personally, I imagine that natural death for most people isn't horrific because the brain is usually in such a degraded state at the time that the passage into it isn't alarming (or even identifiable). It's like HAL getting his memory removed in 2001. Awareness is whittled away like a dimmer switch, and you can't really point to the moment that conciousness is gone. People tend to think of death in terms of their typical state of awareness and anxiety, though, which is more like facing down a gunman.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 18, 2003, at 11:48:03
In reply to Re: WOW, posted by KimberlyDi on September 18, 2003, at 8:51:37
I understand completely about the blank look. I think I was feeling a little insecure, because my S.O. has said things like I don't have anything to say to him. Its hard to make conversation when they look at you like you have two heads when you are talking about something.
When I talk with him my first response to what he says is usually wrong, because I take things so literally and speaks figuratively which at times confuses the heck out of me.Anyway enough of that :). I tried Strattera, it helped me sleep really well. Then I started gaining weight. It would help me focus, but I would have trouble not hyper foucusing. I still have trouble with that with dexedrine sr and adderall, but not as bad.
I have a spot for my purse now and my keys automatically go in my purse when I get home. Now if I can just remember to pay the bills I have in my purse...thats getting better too. :)
Blondegirl
Posted by fachad on September 18, 2003, at 12:58:59
In reply to Re: I could spend hours responding to each item... » fachad, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 9:05:11
> Do you think that it's the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of their existence that keeps them from depression?
I think it can work either way - the stories people believe about the nature and purpose of existence are often the cause of depression.
Religious beliefs that are absolute, and include a negative picture of human nature (humans are sinners, an abomination in the eyes of a god or gods) can lead to negative self image and feelings of guilt and worthlessness.
>I have to wonder how many religious people truly believe the things that they report.
Well, some do and many just don't question things that much.
>I know that studies support the idea that religion helps people live longer. What about it works?
Maybe it is the fear of the wrath of an angry god that keeps them in line. You are less likely to indulge in life shortening vices if you think a god is going to eternally torture and punish you for doing it. That could explain why religious people live longer.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 14:02:42
In reply to Re: I could spend hours responding to each item... » Eddie Sylvano, posted by fachad on September 18, 2003, at 12:58:59
> Maybe it is the fear of the wrath of an angry god that keeps them in line. You are less likely to indulge in life shortening vices if you think a god is going to eternally torture and punish you for doing it. That could explain why religious people live longer.
---------If I really believed that I would go on to either never ending torment or endless bliss upon death because of the parameters of my life, I would become a preist (or rabbi, or whatever) in a hearbeat, and I would welcome death. Compared to the afterlife, this would just be considered an abberant, forgettable, immeasurable blip of existance. I'd also be a bit suspect of God. Eternal torture for ~70 years of animal behavior?
Of course, the Big Bang is an artifical end point as well.
Posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » Eddie Sylvano, posted by utopizen on September 16, 2003, at 17:23:29
Has Dexedrine improved social skills for anyone here? i suffer from social anxiety and ocd. please help!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:21:33
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
Absolutely! With the dexamphetamine + clonazepam combo, conversation just seems to flow so naturally. It's the most wonderful feeling in the world to be talking to someone and, for the first time in your life, realize they're not judging you, and that they're actually *interested* in talking to you. I've really been loving going to parties and meeting new folks, and I'm usually the one to approach others and introduce myself. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get out much lately as my fibromyalgia has flared up *very* badly, and I may need to switch from Ultram to Subutex, Xyrem, or something.
Posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:39
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post) » matthhhh, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:21:33
Hey Ame, thanks for the reply. So it sounds like the dex or stim med really puts the final touch in eliminating your social phobia.
Do u find that its hard to flow, motivate yourself, connect in conversation with the klonopin alone?
By the way, ive been on wellbutrin now for about a 3 1/2 weeks in combination with the klonopin. So do u think that wellbutrin will give me the same effects as the dexedrine would?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 18, 2003, at 21:48:05
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:39
> Do u find that its hard to flow, motivate yourself, connect in conversation with the klonopin alone?
Definitely. The anxiety would be absent, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable.
> By the way, ive been on wellbutrin now for about a 3 1/2 weeks in combination with the klonopin. So do u think that wellbutrin will give me the same effects as the dexedrine would?
Ummm... I really doubt that. Wellbutrin is said to be more "Ritalin-like" than amphetamine-like, and Ritalin is, in general, a nasty drug for social phobia. But who knows, YMMV.
Posted by blondegirl47 on September 19, 2003, at 11:08:57
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 18, 2003, at 21:02:10
When I add 12.5 mg to 2 15 mg dexedrine sr, I get quite chatty. :)
Blondegirl
Posted by sarah1980 on September 20, 2003, at 3:29:40
In reply to I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by zarathustra on September 16, 2003, at 2:43:38
If Dexedrine makes you feel euphoric then you shouldn't take it. I know that sounds really non-intuitive but it is true. Dexedrine is made for ADD and if you truely have ADD it only focuses your attention but doesn't change your mood. Dexedrine can make depression worse in the long run and is easy to get addicted to. When the stimulant is in your brain it increases dopamine and seritonin which feels good, but over time your brain will develop less of these chemicals and you have to increase your dose or get depressed... you see where this is going? I understand though. I have depression and I wouldn't pass up Dexedrine anyday or night for that matter. It feels great. But the very fact that it is that attractive, and the feeling that I want to take more and more, allows me to realize it isn't the best solution for the long run.
Posted by wsj on September 20, 2003, at 12:46:50
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by sarah1980 on September 20, 2003, at 3:29:40
> If Dexedrine makes you feel euphoric then you shouldn't take it. I know that sounds really non-intuitive but it is true. Dexedrine is made for ADD and if you truely have ADD it only focuses your attention but doesn't change your mood. Dexedrine can make depression worse in the long run and is easy to get addicted to. When the stimulant is in your brain it increases dopamine and seritonin which feels good, but over time your brain will develop less of these chemicals and you have to increase your dose or get depressed... you see where this is going? I understand though. I have depression and I wouldn't pass up Dexedrine anyday or night for that matter. It feels great. But the very fact that it is that attractive, and the feeling that I want to take more and more, allows me to realize it isn't the best solution for the long run.
you don't mention what you do take?
Posted by matthhhh on September 20, 2003, at 13:19:23
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by wsj on September 20, 2003, at 12:46:50
good point sarah. But what about if you have an anxiety disorder or ocd caused by low levels of serotonin in your brain. And by taking the stimulant med ie dexedrine your serotonin levels are raised to a point that you dont really feel euphoric but just normal.
I myself and social anxiety ocd and with a very small dose of a stimulant i feel normal. Do u think taking dexedrine for this is bad?
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2003, at 19:47:24
In reply to WOW » zarathustra, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:02:29
Ah, Kimberly, I love your posts. This will probably end up in Social, but I wanted to ensure that you get this. You state so eloquently the very tender and private thoughts so many of us (as in myself) share with you. There is such pain in feeling 'different' from whoever defines such things, but such beauty in it as well.
I have a book you might want to read. I stumbled upon it in a bookstore and it's changed my whole attitude about being a lone pea in a pod in a crowded sea of pod people. It's called "Party of One" by Anneli Rufus, subtitled "The Loners' Manifesto". It celebrates the unique and unrecognized wonderfullnes of people who enjoy their own company and the space to think their own thoughts. The independent thinkers somewhat left of plumb, interesting, innovative and highly curious, disturbing and moody at times, social when necessary, and wanting so much to find kindred spirits, but are generally met with a glazed expression, boredom, disinterest, stupidity, misunderstanding - you get the picture. You feel like an outcast and it hurts, even though you think they're all rather loud and trying, and you'd really rather be somewhere else, someplace quiet. So many artists, writers, scientists, creaters have all been loners. It's a very long list and it's nice to be a member in this club that doesn't have members.
Sometimes I can be a real wild and crazy party animal, but my true nature has always been as a lone explorer. Realizing I'm not a weirdo in preferring not to hob-nob with this rather strange human race made me feel quite relieved - not so weird, strange, unpopular, aloof, snooty - all those unkind judgements that make us doubt ourselves. The truth is, I'm a very loving, compassionate and empathetic person, but too many people exhaust me and drain my life force.
Lately, I'm learning to accept all of myself, the stuff I've always been embarrassed about, my forthrightness, my discerment, my cynicism, my 'whoo, that's weird' visions, my ultra-sensitivity, my goofyness, my gushing heart, my intelligence (and fooey to those who can't keep up), my tendency to wander away at parties to spend time with the cat, my preference to go shopping alone, eating at restaurants alone, thinking my own thoughts, all the eccentricities that define me.
My husband respects all this in me but is a 'people person' with loads of friends and social activities. I've always thought maybe I should feel kind of bad about this, about not having hoards of friends who want to do things together all the time, and get asked to be on committees and on boards of things. I have a handful of much loved friends who are loners and explorers like me. We see each other only occasionally, which is quite enough, but it's always so precious, like coming home. This not wanting to mingle with others' energies and thought forms is actually a healthy thing. I no longer feel like I need to be different from who I am and it's so liberating. A time may come when I feel differently and choose to emerge from my cave experience, but for now, I don't.
You know, you really don't have to waste time with Mr. Number Four if he doesn't cherish or recognize the preciousness of you. That kind of situation all too often makes you start doubting you own preciousness. Your own company might be much more enriching. Much fondness to you. BarbaraCat
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 20:14:17
In reply to An Ode to Alone » KimberlyDi, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2003, at 19:47:24
Hello Barbaracat,
Somehow I think your post ended up on the wrong thread, but thanks be to a Higher Power that it did! I will definitely check out that book. I am glad I am not the only person to seek out the cat at parties
(in fact, I have neighbors who lived down the street from me for almosty 15 years. I never knew their names but knew the names of both of their cats).
I too have a my set of friends with whom I "touch base" to see how we are doing. I have never really been able to get into "need to find someone to go do something" space. In a way, although we sometimes have to struggle against the norm, us "loners" really have a lot of empowerment. Not too long ago I had returned from an enjoyable holiday trip (just me) to a nearby mountain town. I happened to mention this to a co-worker, who said he would *love* to go there but can never find anyone to go with.
Ironically, I also have friends who are true people persons as well (I think of them as the "high extroverts"). We get along well because they seem to accept and cherish me for who and what I am -- they don't try to "fix" me by making me more social.
Anyway, I have seen your posts around (you seem to be one of the old-timers here, or at least a quasi-oldtimer) -- it is nice to finally "e-meet" you!
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2003, at 21:29:13
In reply to Re: An Ode to Alone » BarbaraCat, posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 20:14:17
Good to meet you too, madwand. I think you'll enjoy the book. Funny how we're guided and helped 'by accident', eh? I feel blessed that I can enjoy things by myself. It rejuvenates me and allows me to enjoy company so much more. Keep in touch. - BCat
Posted by sarah1980 on September 21, 2003, at 4:52:04
In reply to Re: I need the truth about Dexedrine. (long post), posted by matthhhh on September 20, 2003, at 13:19:23
I have never heard of stimulants being used for OCD or an anxiety disorder. From all I know of pharmacology it would seem really strange for a stimulant to help either of those, although I know that it could make either worse... However, one should be pragmatic. If the treatment is using particularly small doses and it works than I can't see any problem. I would be more inclined to think the person would better off and much more likely to be responsive to Paxil (the drug of choice for both) or Zoloft, or as a third route an anti-anxiety agent such as low dosages of benzos. If none of these things worked then I would think that it would be an unusual next choice, but if it does the job i can't say it is wrong. I could never say a medication is wrong for all people for all purposes. I just think that one should weigh the potential costs and benefits and make a thoughtful, knowledgeable decision about what path they should take. But I was not the psychiatrist who saw you or the person in your hypothetical.... so perhaps there are more complex issues at hand. For example if someone has ADHD that is severe enough to cause the person anxiety about how they are acting it would make a lot of sense to try a stimulant. Psychology is a science of trends, not absolutes.
Posted by katia on September 21, 2003, at 16:19:58
In reply to Re: An Ode to Alone » madwand, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2003, at 21:29:13
Hey Barb!
Are you back? Has it been ten days? I guess i've sorted of taken a psychobabble break. I've been (yes again) looking for a new place to live.I just wanted to say hi and address the below --
>>Sometimes I can be a real wild and crazy party animal, but my true nature has always been as a lone explorer. Realizing I'm not a weirdo in preferring not to hob-nob with this rather strange human race made me feel quite relieved - not so weird, strange, unpopular, aloof, snooty - all those unkind judgements that make us doubt ourselves. The truth is, I'm a very loving, compassionate and empathetic person, but too many people exhaust me and drain my life force.
yes, wouldn't you know it I'm one of these people too. I think that's why I started drinking so much at parties. So i could tolerate it! and then would somehow become the center of the party then! This polarities make BP sense. Know what i mean? Prior to that, I was the "cat" person too. I remember as a child wandering to back bedrooms and drawing or crawling under the christmas tree and staring up into with a brand new perspective on life!
The introvert in me recharges alone. as you said "other people exhaust me and drain my life force". I've often wondered how much of this in me has to do with depression or just being a sensitive person or lacking "psychic" boundaries and getting too much mixed up energy going on in my own. There are so many factors to this!
lately, I've been "trying" to be more social (the past couple years) and it's actually been nice to let people in and show my other sides to. anyway, interesting conversation..... if we get redirected and you want to respond, I'll follow it.
Katia
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2003, at 19:31:18
In reply to An Ode to Alone » KimberlyDi, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2003, at 19:47:24
> Ah, Kimberly, I love your posts. This will probably end up in Social...
Yes, here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030913/msgs/262258.html
Bob
Posted by silmarilone on September 23, 2003, at 2:36:32
In reply to WOW » zarathustra, posted by KimberlyDi on September 17, 2003, at 17:02:29
You think just like me! And I married someone like your husband...hmmm!! (I"m divorced)
-Thomas- death_in_venice_mann@yahoo.com
> I stated in another post that *real life*, the *real world*, is unique to everyone. Your individual reality is how you perceive your world. How you feel and think is everything, to you.
>
> My experience in school was different. I made straight A's without trying. I was the quiet one that the teacher's adored. Painfully shy. I endured very little harrassment by other kids because I was simply beneath their notice. Music and math were my favorites. Music because it moves my spirit and math because it has rules. Memorize the rules and you can achieve perfection every time.
>
> So much talent. Musically gifted on the piano, but I hated to play for others. Zero ambition. I loved to learn... everything. One of those people who knows alittle about everything, and alot about nothing. When I go to a doctor's office, I tell him what's wrong with me. Because I've already researched it thoroughly.
>
> <smile> 3 paragraphs to go through. not nearly as long as yours. The point is:
>
> I don't have many friends. I am married, for the 4th time, to a semi-stranger. So many times, I look at him, and wonder.. "is that all?" just food, sex, practical jokes & sleep? that's all he needs and thinks about? what about theories? analyzing things? learning new things? seeing the world?
>
> He doesn't think like I do. Hardly anyone does. I'm an oddball and sometimes even take pride in being unique. other times i realize i'm destined to lead a lonely existance. even as a child, i had thoughts that God was a scientist and i was his experiment. nothing existed except for me and God monitored how i reacted in an environment that he controlled.
>
> I don't get much pleasure out of life. The majority of people live life in pursuit of pleasure, be it sex, good food, fun, wine or whiskey. I can't deal with the thought that I'm just an animal on one planet in one of many galaxies.
>
> I was depressed, and self-medicating with alcohol. Now I take Effexor and I don't look through depression-tainted eyes. I still feel different from everyone else. I'm newly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and now take Strattera. It helps me focus which helps me to complete my 1001 halfway finished projects... But I'm still an oddball.
>
> Enjoy what you are feeling while it lasts, if the medicine makes you feel better. The way you feel is your reality. If you feel better, you are better.
>
> KDi in Texas
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 23, 2003, at 16:26:34
In reply to Re: WOW » KimberlyDi, posted by silmarilone on September 23, 2003, at 2:36:32
This is the end of the thread.
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