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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on June 15, 2003, at 20:17:10
Hmmm...I'm not a happy man at the moment.
It's to do with Nardil...
Here's the situation...
I foolishly stopped Nardil to foolishly try Anafranil. I WAS FOOLISHLY OFF NARDIL 17 DAYS IN TOTAL. Anyway, I restarted Nardil ASAP - even at the risk of 5HT syndrome - I resatrted only 2 days after 4 days of foolishly starting Anafranil.
Anyhow, one I reached 60mg, after a few days on 15/30/45 it kicked in BIG TIME! But this frittered away and I began feeling flat - anyhow I have been on 90mg for 5 days now - still feeling flat a lot of the time, BUT IT IS WORKING GREAT FOR THE Phobic anxiety/derealization.
So essentially, that 17 days off the magic...it's like I've had to start again...last time it took 6 weeks to kick in... I have now been on it for 4 and a half weeks. And ALL of the s/effects when I first went on it have come back! Some are starting to fade however...Within that 17 days would resynthesis occured?
But why is it working great for derealization/anxiety now...will i have to wait again for the depression effects.
You stupid FOOL Andrew for going off the stuff! You FOOL! You FOOL! You FOOL!
Ace,
PS please call me a fool!
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 15, 2003, at 21:48:51
In reply to What the heck is going on here!? Ace needs advice!, posted by ace on June 15, 2003, at 20:17:10
> Hmmm...I'm not a happy man at the moment.
>
> It's to do with Nardil...
>
> Here's the situation...
>
> I foolishly stopped Nardil to foolishly try Anafranil. I WAS FOOLISHLY OFF NARDIL 17 DAYS IN TOTAL. Anyway, I restarted Nardil ASAP - even at the risk of 5HT syndrome - I resatrted only 2 days after 4 days of foolishly starting Anafranil.
>
>
> Anyhow, one I reached 60mg, after a few days on 15/30/45 it kicked in BIG TIME! But this frittered away and I began feeling flat - anyhow I have been on 90mg for 5 days now - still feeling flat a lot of the time, BUT IT IS WORKING GREAT FOR THE Phobic anxiety/derealization.
>
>
> So essentially, that 17 days off the magic...it's like I've had to start again...last time it took 6 weeks to kick in... I have now been on it for 4 and a half weeks. And ALL of the s/effects when I first went on it have come back! Some are starting to fade however...
>
> Within that 17 days would resynthesis occured?Yup. MAO enzymes have a half-life of less than two weeks. With an irreversible inhibitor like phenelzine, there may well be an upregulation of MAO synthesis, as the body tries to overcome the drug's effect. By going off the drug for 17 days, you probably came close to 100% restoration of your normal MAO complement, if not reaching it sooner. If you had fully reached your normal level of the enzyme, feed-back inhibition would already be occurring. In other words, you'd have to start all over again with the Nardil. There's a good chance your body remains primed to attempt to circumvent the drug. This is just my opinion.
> But why is it working great for derealization/anxiety now...will i have to wait again for the depression effects.
Soon, you'll feel that again. You need greater than 80% inhibition of MAO.
> You stupid FOOL Andrew for going off the stuff! You FOOL! You FOOL! You FOOL!
>
> Ace,
>
> PS please call me a fool!You were not, and are not, a fool. You were trying to help yourself feel well. Only in hindsight can you come to any negative opinion, so why bother with that?
Hope the Nardil kicks in soon.
Lar
Posted by ace on June 16, 2003, at 0:46:29
In reply to Re: What the heck is going on here!? Ace needs advice! » ace, posted by Larry Hoover on June 15, 2003, at 21:48:51
> > Hmmm...I'm not a happy man at the moment.
> >
> > It's to do with Nardil...
> >
> > Here's the situation...
> >
> > I foolishly stopped Nardil to foolishly try Anafranil. I WAS FOOLISHLY OFF NARDIL 17 DAYS IN TOTAL. Anyway, I restarted Nardil ASAP - even at the risk of 5HT syndrome - I resatrted only 2 days after 4 days of foolishly starting Anafranil.
> >
> >
> > Anyhow, one I reached 60mg, after a few days on 15/30/45 it kicked in BIG TIME! But this frittered away and I began feeling flat - anyhow I have been on 90mg for 5 days now - still feeling flat a lot of the time, BUT IT IS WORKING GREAT FOR THE Phobic anxiety/derealization.
> >
> >
> > So essentially, that 17 days off the magic...it's like I've had to start again...last time it took 6 weeks to kick in... I have now been on it for 4 and a half weeks. And ALL of the s/effects when I first went on it have come back! Some are starting to fade however...
> >
> > Within that 17 days would resynthesis occured?
>
> Yup. MAO enzymes have a half-life of less than two weeks. With an irreversible inhibitor like phenelzine, there may well be an upregulation of MAO synthesis, as the body tries to overcome the drug's effect. By going off the drug for 17 days, you probably came close to 100% restoration of your normal MAO complement, if not reaching it sooner. If you had fully reached your normal level of the enzyme, feed-back inhibition would already be occurring. In other words, you'd have to start all over again with the Nardil. There's a good chance your body remains primed to attempt to circumvent the drug. This is just my opinion.
>
> > But why is it working great for derealization/anxiety now...will i have to wait again for the depression effects.
>
> Soon, you'll feel that again. You need greater than 80% inhibition of MAO.
>
> > You stupid FOOL Andrew for going off the stuff! You FOOL! You FOOL! You FOOL!
> >
> > Ace,
> >
> > PS please call me a fool!
>
> You were not, and are not, a fool. You were trying to help yourself feel well. Only in hindsight can you come to any negative opinion, so why bother with that?
>
> Hope the Nardil kicks in soon.
>
> Lar
You explained it perfectly Larry. Thanks so much. I think in 1 or 2 more weeks I'll be happy again. Sometimes the depression gets frustrating so I gotta get angry with someone, so why not me! But yeah, I know I was only trying to help myself and I can use this experience as learning. Once again, you really helped clarify - thanks to you bro.Ace.
Posted by avid abulia on June 16, 2003, at 13:29:16
In reply to Thanks Larry! » Larry Hoover, posted by ace on June 16, 2003, at 0:46:29
additionally, part of the reason you are experiencing a decline in derealization so quickly may be due to the fact that derealization (particularly if it is occurring in episodic fashion, as i am getting the impression yours is because you called it an aura in a previous post) is often related to abnormal quasi-seizure-like activity (similar to de ja vu and jamais vu) and one metabolite of Nardil is a gaba-transaminase inhibitor similar to the canadian anti-epileptic drug Sabril which helps to alter electrical function by inhibiting breakdown of gaba, thereby hyperpolarizing neuronal membranes.
give it some time for the depression; as larry says, 80% inhibition is nececcessary for most people. 17 days is probably long enough that you will have reached a baseline level of MAO (14 days does it for most people in irreversible inhibitors, ergo the 14 day warnings).
~AA
Posted by Ron Hill on June 17, 2003, at 20:48:53
In reply to What the heck is going on here!? Ace needs advice!, posted by ace on June 15, 2003, at 20:17:10
> PS please call me a fool!
You are NOT a fool Andrew. You simply tried something that looked promising but it did not work. We've all done it. You'll be okay. No need to beat yourself up; it's not beneficial.
-- Ron
Posted by ace on June 18, 2003, at 1:04:47
In reply to Re: What the heck is going on here!? Ace needs advice! » ace, posted by Ron Hill on June 17, 2003, at 20:48:53
> > PS please call me a fool!
>
> You are NOT a fool Andrew. You simply tried something that looked promising but it did not work. We've all done it. You'll be okay. No need to beat yourself up; it's not beneficial.
>
> -- Ron
>Thanks man,
Hey, check out my post below! It's finally set in man- this time for good!
I don't feel like a fool now! I feel great!
Are you still on Zyprexa? I'm preety sure I saw an old post and it was you. If I was right, how are you doing with it? How long has it been since you started it?
Thanks again for you support Ron,
Ace, Nardil freak!, 90mg.
Posted by Ron Hill on June 18, 2003, at 8:55:26
In reply to Re: What the heck is going on here!? Ace needs advice! » Ron Hill, posted by ace on June 18, 2003, at 1:04:47
Ace,
> Are you still on Zyprexa? I'm preety sure I saw an old post and it was you. If I was right, how are you doing with it? How long has it been since you started it?
Nope, not me. I've never taken an AP.
Real happy to hear that your Nardil has kicked back in. Be well!
-- Ron
This is the end of the thread.
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