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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Squiggles on June 5, 2003, at 21:33:25
Larry,
If you are picking this up -- i wish to
direct this question to you as you seem
to be an expert in nutrition. I have posted
before my perplexity over the nature of
a seizure/stroke episode i had withdrawing
from clonazepam a couple of yrs. ago. Though
my dr. recognized it as withdrawal, i have
my doubts.I know it's not wise to second-
guess your dr. and most often i do not. I
respect my dr.'s wise and conservative approach
most of the time. However, this set of
sensations really looked like stroke to me
according to my reading on the net. I won't
go over them - you have probably read them -
*but* there is one which may actually give
a clue: a couple of days after the *stroke*
i had an insatiable craving for anything citric
such as oranges or grapefruit or lemons. This
is very unusual for me. Moreover, I recall my
good friend Ray Nimmo of benzo.org reporting
the same effect when he was coming off benzos.Does this mean anything to you?
Squiggles
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 8:22:45
In reply to Question for Larry Hoover - Vitamin C, posted by Squiggles on June 5, 2003, at 21:33:25
> Larry,
>
> If you are picking this up -- i wish to
> direct this question to you as you seem
> to be an expert in nutrition. I have posted
> before my perplexity over the nature of
> a seizure/stroke episode i had withdrawing
> from clonazepam a couple of yrs. ago. Though
> my dr. recognized it as withdrawal, i have
> my doubts.
>
> I know it's not wise to second-
> guess your dr. and most often i do not. I
> respect my dr.'s wise and conservative approach
> most of the time. However, this set of
> sensations really looked like stroke to me
> according to my reading on the net. I won't
> go over them - you have probably read them -
> *but* there is one which may actually give
> a clue: a couple of days after the *stroke*
> i had an insatiable craving for anything citric
> such as oranges or grapefruit or lemons. This
> is very unusual for me. Moreover, I recall my
> good friend Ray Nimmo of benzo.org reporting
> the same effect when he was coming off benzos.
>
> Does this mean anything to you?
>
> SquigglesI have no experience with benzo withdrawal, but if you have found a source (Ray Nimmo) who describes a similar experience during withdrawal, does it not fit the picture that your "stroke" was a withdrawal symptom?
I know of no physiological link between citrus craving and anything else. Citrus isn't even that great a source of vitamin C.
Why does this still bother you, what you might call your experience of so long ago?
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on June 6, 2003, at 8:34:04
In reply to Re: Question for Larry Hoover - Vitamin C, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 8:22:45
Thanks for the reply Larry. In response
to you question "why does it bother me",
it's because the withdrawal actually took
about a year with protracted stuff, while
the "stroke" took about a minute and crippled
me for a month - maybe it was a seizure.
Thought maybe the craving for oranges may
be indicative of stroke or seizure or withdrawal.
My mother was alarmed and shook my head
to see if was dead. I was quite sick for a month.
On account of that incident i had to go back
on clonazepam, and my dr. said take as much
as i need to stabilize (i guess it was just
unsuccessful); now i am left with the question
"do i need clonazepam or am i just addicted";
after all my dr. hoped i could do it - i.e.
get off.It's a perplexing picture, what with the
warring sides on the nature of addiction.
I do lean on the Medawar, Healy, etc. side.
After all i was successful in getting off
Xanax and no longer have panic attacks and
my dr. congratulated me. So, i have the
medical establishment on my side as well.Squiggles
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 10:01:21
In reply to Re: Question for Larry Hoover - Vitamin C » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on June 6, 2003, at 8:34:04
> Thanks for the reply Larry. In response
> to you question "why does it bother me",
> it's because the withdrawal actually took
> about a year with protracted stuff, while
> the "stroke" took about a minute and crippled
> me for a month - maybe it was a seizure.
> Thought maybe the craving for oranges may
> be indicative of stroke or seizure or withdrawal.
> My mother was alarmed and shook my head
> to see if was dead. I was quite sick for a month.I've no doubt is was a frightening and disturbing occurrence. Some time ago, I suggested that "organic brain syndrome" might be a valid explanation. It's a catch-all term doctors use when "something obviously happened, but we don't have a clue just what" takes place.
Absent persistent neurological deficits, you're left with shrugs because you weren't on an EEG when it happened.
> It's a perplexing picture, what with the
> warring sides on the nature of addiction.Addiction be damned. What difference does it make if the med works, you're not abusing it, and you have not developed tolerance?
> I do lean on the Medawar, Healy, etc. side.
Meaning...? Healy believes in full disclosure, but he isn't anti-med per se. I don't know Medawar.
> After all i was successful in getting off
> Xanax and no longer have panic attacks and
> my dr. congratulated me. So, i have the
> medical establishment on my side as well.
>
> SquigglesOn what side is that? If you're treating troubling symptoms, and you have success with that....
I'm wondering if you concerns are not moot. You haven't done things drastically differently because of your concerns, ya know?
Lar
Posted by Squiggles on June 6, 2003, at 10:33:40
In reply to Re: Question for Larry Hoover - Vitamin C » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 10:01:21
Hi Larry,
I thank you for the thoughtful and conscientious
reply. The term "organic brain syndrome" is
vague enough to cover many unkowns - it really
did fit the description of a stroke, and given
the very hot weather with lithium, it very well
could have been. Possibly the absence of clonazepam
in withdrawing changed the chemistry. In any event,
i survived it with waves of illness. I appreciate
your credulity.You make good points - i couldn't ask for more,
except perhaps for being successfully withdrawn
from clonazepam. But either that is not possible
for taking it too long, or ignorance on how it can
be done, or whether infact it should be done. Given
the theory that bipolar disorder is a species of
epilepsy it would be unwise and would contradict my dr.'s
willingness to let me try getting off it, and the success
of people who have.As for Charles Medawar - he is the Director
of Social Audit in England and has written a number
of bookshttp://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books-uk&field-author=Charles%20Medawar
You can do a Google on him and see numerous
hits - or ask me to send you some if you
don't "Google" -- my husband has described him as the
Ralph Nader of pharmaceuticals and health (in the U.K.)Thanks again.
Squiggles
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