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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AlphaOne on November 3, 2002, at 8:52:04
My story....
I am 23.
3 years ago I smoked pot perhaps a dozen times over about 6 months.
During that time I also took LSD once.
The result of this drug taking was that I suddenly started to have first constant pot-like perception distortions resembling the symptoms of a very mild high.
After another couple of weeks I started having slight hallucinations or rather illusions that were LSD typical. Things including inanimate objects (real things) move ever so slightly.
The hallucinations were cyclical, building up over about 10 days, then dropping suddenly 80% , then starting to build up again.
I went to a doctor and took Perazine for a couple of weeks but it didn`t do anything except give me a strange feeling in the tongue.
Over time the hallucinations receded, though the perception distortions from the pot didn`t, they just altered slightly.
Then I found out that I had testosterone deficit and possibly a microscopic tumor at the hypophysis.(The testosterone deficit was found to be either caused by the hypothalamus or the hypophysis) Since then I have been injecting testosterone biweekly.
After that I eventually I figured out that I had ADD. Including the typical concentration, motor and social problems.
A doctor prescribed me Ritalin which I had to take at a relatively high dosage (25 mg initially and the 10 mg every hour).
It worked fine - except the hallucinations came back and I aborted after 7 days.
The hallucinations didn`t go away again.
So the next med I tried was Risperidone, which didn´t help with my concentration (in fact it dumbed me down) but after the effect kicked in after a few days the hallucinations went down 99% within just 3 or 4 days, and stayed that way after discontinuation.
Then I tried reboxetine. After a few days I noticed a stark increase in sensitivity to sexual stimulation. At that time I figured out that my "normal" sensitivity to sex was much lower than normal. I was highly thrilled, until I started getting massive vertigo, feelings of being spaced out and also sensations of pressure in my head.
After discontinuation those symptoms first abated slightly, but then the spaced-out feeling and partially the vertigo increased over a period of three weeks until I felt like I was constantly on heavily on drugs.
Then the trend turned, and over the next months this receded until it was gone completely about 5 months later.(The sexual sensitivity had vanished instantly)
I then took Desipramine (in a low dose), but it screwed up my memory and made me feel spaced out.
After that I tried Moclobemide. In the beginning that made tired. Didn´t improve concentration or do anything else.
I had the feeling that I was left more "hyper" (permantly) when I came off the drug.
A couple of weeks afterwards, I took Buproprione for 3 weeks (300 mg).
That established a pattern I would later find with Ritalin as well.
After a week or so on it, I discovered that my ability to concentrate, indeed my total cognitive abilities were significantly impaired after the drug levels had peaked.
The hallucinations also came back, but remained at a stable level.
After 3 weeks I discontinued the drug and decided to try Ritalin again.
The same pattern emerged as with buproprione - on a high dosage I could concentrate very well, but as soon as the level dropped under a certain level cognition went down the toilet, especially on things that didn`t interest me and were complex.
The cognition improved again when the drug wore off, but didn´t get back to normal levels, at least not within two days.
I noticed a tendency to clench my teeth when I was on Ritalin.
I took Ritalin for maybe 8 weeks, until it stopped working.
First I noticed that the "high" feeling diminished and went away. Then, suddenly, the high feeling stopped totally and there was no cognition enhancing effect anymore achieved on whatever dose, cognition just got worse when I took it.
At the same time I started clenching my teeth compulsively, which went away over the next three days.
But my cognition, notably the ability to comprehend complex texts which don´t interest me much has stayed very low, impairing my attempts to learn very much. (I´m studying economics).
The effect is also strong on texts which do interest me, but somewhat less pronounced.
4 days after discontinuing Ritalin, I hadn´t the gravity of my problem yet, I tried a nicotine patch. (Nicotine, a dopamine agonist, is suppose to enhance cognition and help against ADHD). This produced the same teeth-clenching effect as the last Ritalin dose. Again it took 3 days to disappear.
It`s beem three weeks since I stopped Ritalin.
Cognition hasn´t improved, at least not by much.
Caffeine helps me concentrate a bit better.Has anyone ever come over reports off similar effects either of the drugs I mentioned, or any of the meds (including Ritalin)?
Does anyone have an idea what I could do (if anything)This post is not meant to panic anyone out of taking Ritalin, or anything else for that matter - my brain appears to have some special problems.
Posted by AlphaOne on November 3, 2002, at 8:59:52
In reply to Brain Problems from Ritalin, posted by AlphaOne on November 3, 2002, at 8:52:04
I wanted to add that after the Ritalin, I am occasionally feeling nauseous in the morning and the evening.
Posted by BrittPark on November 3, 2002, at 12:39:21
In reply to Brain Problems from Ritalin, posted by AlphaOne on November 3, 2002, at 8:52:04
I can't offer much specific advice except to try provigil/modafinal for your ADD. There's no way to know if it will work for you, but provigil works in a completely different way from ritalin or amphetamines.
Are you seeing a good psychiatrist, one with real expertise in Psychopharmacology? It makes a big difference.
Feel better,
Britt
Posted by tancu on November 3, 2002, at 22:32:35
In reply to Brain Problems from Ritalin, posted by AlphaOne on November 3, 2002, at 8:52:04
hello AlphaOne...given the high doses of ritalin that your doc prescribed, I will assume that your physical stature is large...however, I can't imagine how 10mg of ritalin per hour could be "theraputic" for anyone--even if you weigh 300lbs...assuming you took your first dose of "25mg initially" (as you've indicated) at 8:00am, for example, and then 10mg/hr (as you've indicated) for the remainder of an average work-day (with a 1 hr lunch-break), that would give you a daily intake of 115mg...that seems like a bit too much, especially if you don't take an ocassional break from it...there are other meds that can be taken with ritalin, which may allow you to use "less" ritalin and still benefit from it...I believe Concerta is one of them...ask your doc about this adjunctive approach--"synergism"--which simply means that a combination of meds taken together can often have a greater effect than the sum of their individual effects...for example, if you rate the benefit of med x as "5" and the benefit of med y as "5" when these meds are taken by themselves, you may find that taking them "together" will give you a benefit rating of significantly more than "10"...you may also find that you'll require less of a dose of one or both of them, and "less" medicine is always best so long as you receive a theraputic benefit...a lesser dose of a particular med generally means less metabolic stress and fewer side-effects...
I sincerely doubt that any of the problems you're currently experiencing are "biologically" related to your brief use of pot from 3 yrs ago...however, ocassionally marijuana can become contaminated with some fairy dangerous chemical compounds--fungicides like "maneb", herbicides like "roundup", and pesticide/herbicides like "paraquat and diquat" are prevalent world-wide ...indiana, for example, has been trying to irradicate hundreds of acres of the same "wild-growing" hemp fields for decades, fields originally planted and harvested for use in making rope...but, you have undoubtedly ingested much more of these compounds by simply eating fruits and veggies and occasionally mowing the lawn or raking leaves...pot can also become contaminated during transport or while in storage...in this case the contaminants could literally be anything...even so, I seriously doubt that this is the cause of your symptoms...you could always check with some of the people you smoked with to see if they're having any problems similar to yours...I wouldn't worry about your one-time use of lsd either...scientifically reliable data overwhelmingly shows no relationship between your one-time lsd experiment and "symptoms" 3 yrs later...relax AlphaOne--you used lsd "once" three yrs ago...this hardly qualifies you to differentiate between "slight hallucinations" and "illusions that were LSD typical"--as you've stated...
don't be disappointed that "perazine" didn't help your symptoms...the only reliable research on this drug indicates that there is no reliable research on this drug...I'm guessing that live in poland, germany, the netherlands, or the former yugoslavia, because these are the only places in the world where perazine is used...please be careful about the docs you trust...try to find one who went to a university in britain, the u.s., or maybe canada...
you seem to indicate that the risperidone worked pretty well in controlling your "hallucinations", but made you feel "numb" and less able to concentrate...can you use this med with (synergism) a small dose of ritalin or maybe adderall?--to counteract the drowsiness?...I gotta go brother...hope this helps a little...
one last thing--can you tell us exactly what your diagnosis is?...if you don't have one, this is your number priority...keep seeing those docs, and don't let'em give the run-around.
Posted by AlphaOne on November 4, 2002, at 9:12:01
In reply to Re: Brain Problems from Ritalin, posted by tancu on November 3, 2002, at 22:32:35
Thanks for the reply....
---------------
hello AlphaOne...given the high doses of ritalin that your doc prescribed, I will assume that your physical stature is large...however, I can't imagine how 10mg of ritalin per hour could be "theraputic" for anyone--even if you weigh 300lbs...assuming you took your first dose of "25mg initially" (as you've indicated) at 8:00am, for example, and then 10mg/hr (as you've indicated) for the remainder of an average work-day (with a 1 hr lunch-break), that would give you a daily intake of 115mg...that seems like a bit too much
----------I limited it to 60-70(80tops) mg per day, which gave me around 6 hours of total concentration.
I took two days off on weekends.
I am not that "large", about 75 kgs, but quite muscular.-----------
one last thing--can you tell us exactly what your diagnosis is?...if you don't have one, this is your number priority...keep seeing those docs, and don't let'em give the run-around. </i>Diagnosis: ADD, hypogonadism(lack of testosterone), possible microtumor at the hypophysis (which doesn´t quite show up on MRT)
Docs said I showed no signs of being psychotic.
No diagnosis re. the slight hallucinations, no diagnosis re. the perception distortions I suffered from the pot. Doctors just didn´t know, though one told me that very rarely people can get psychosis-like states from Pot(even from one time use), which are in reality not a psychosis but a constant, permanent "high", a continual flashback.
Haven`t been to the doc yet with my current, most pressing problem, the cognition since laying off ritalin.
It`s what I would expect from a rebound, except I don´t expect it to last for 3 weeks.
--------
I wouldn't worry about your one-time use of lsd either...scientifically reliable data overwhelmingly shows no relationship between your one-time lsd experiment and "symptoms" 3 yrs later...relax AlphaOne--you used lsd "once" three yrs ago...this hardly qualifies you to differentiate between "slight hallucinations" and "illusions that were LSD typical"--as you've stated...
---------I`m not bothered by the hallucinations anymore. They are rather mild(they were much stronger in the beginning) and since I don´t see anything that`s not there, they don´t hinder me in anything.
Posted by vincent on November 6, 2002, at 6:44:39
In reply to Re: Brain Problems from Ritalin, posted by AlphaOne on November 4, 2002, at 9:12:01
Hi,
apologise for my post not exactly in argument.
I suffer about anergy, deep depression, apatye, ecc... and i'm looking for a stimulant that could improve my "feelings" and "willings".
How ritalin acts?
What is its effect? How long it lasts?
It gives more energy?
Thanks for your help!
Bye
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