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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by InsomniaMom on June 8, 2002, at 22:52:54
I have been on WellbutrinSR for a couple of years and it doesn't seem to be working anymore. It really helped my concentration and depression at first, but I have always had to supplement it with valium and/or sonata to get more than 3 or 4 hours of sleep. My dr. told me to take the second (150mg) at lunchtime so I wouldn't be so hyper at night, but that still makes me feel really weird and I think I've built up a tolerance to the valium and sonata. I always feel depressed after taking the sonata, too.
A couple of nights ago I decided to try out some trazadone. My mother has a stockpile and is not taking them anymore. I took 75 mg (she used to take 300)and awakened at 4am with a wicked headache, dizziness a little nausea, hot with chills and weird feeling in my body...like I had to keep stretching.
Excedrin helped the head pain, but I was dizzy and felt cold all day. Was wearing a sweatshirt in Florida!
I know from the literature I've read that the dizziness was most likely a side effect, the headache possibly a side effect, but what about the chills? Is it bad to take with Wellbutrin?
Any thoughts would be helpful...except to try SSRI's...will not take them again.
Thanks...I'm new here and almost ready to check myself into the psych ward with my mother...
Posted by terra miller on June 9, 2002, at 14:50:28
In reply to Trazodone side effects??????, posted by InsomniaMom on June 8, 2002, at 22:52:54
hi. gosh i'm sorry to hear about your sleep. are you drinking any caffeine during the day? that can make a big difference when on wellbutrin. drop it altogether if you can. have you tried ambien for sleep? do you have a doc that you can ask about the trazodone? i couldn't tolerate it either, but i use ambien which works just fine. i also have to consciously choose to wind down at night. and it also helps to get exercise in some form during the day as well. i'm actually sleeping now, which is a small miracle.
hope some of that was helpful.
~terra
Posted by Schuyler on June 10, 2002, at 7:05:22
In reply to Trazodone side effects??????, posted by InsomniaMom on June 8, 2002, at 22:52:54
<snip>
> I know from the literature I've read that the dizziness was most likely a side effect, the headache possibly a side effect, but what about the chills? Is it bad to take with Wellbutrin?
>
> Any thoughts would be helpful...except to try SSRI's...will not take them again.
>
> Thanks...I'm new here and almost ready to check myself into the psych ward with my mother...I have taken Wellbutrin for 13 years (currently 100 mg 2X/day). I have taken Trazadone for a couple of years for sleep. I first tried 50 mg, and it had a "paradoxical" effect and kept me awake. Now I take 25 mg a night, and it works well for me. Maybe a smaller dose would work for you.
Schuyler
Posted by InsomniaMom on June 10, 2002, at 7:42:26
In reply to Re: Trazodone side effects??????, posted by Schuyler on June 10, 2002, at 7:05:22
Thanks Terra and Schuyler. I don't consume a lot of caffeine. One or two cups of coffee in the morning at the most. Never any soft drinks, but I often have a glass or two of wine with dinner. I know you aren't supposed to "drink" while on Wellbutrin. My sister took it under the "Zyban" name to help her quit smoking and got very nasty, emotional and aggressive at a holiday function we had, but she drinks a lot more than I do. I was wondering if wine (alcohol being a depressant) could possibly counteract the antidepressant effects of the Wellbutrin?
I do TRY to exercise (30-45 minutes on the treadmill) every other day. I used to enjoy my yoga tapes a lot, but am currently battling a problem with shoulder bursitis/bone spur. Which may be another reason for my worsening spirits as my favorite form of "meditation" had been working on my potter's wheel. Plus I keep forgetting to get my VCR fixed (beginning to think I've had ADD all these years and was misdiagnosed).
I may try the Trazodone at a much lower dose (if I can break the tablets that small). I have tried Ambien, too. I slept on it but did not feel refreshed the next day...sort of an unfulfilled feeling, but not a total zombie like on the traz. Went and got some sublingual B vitamins yesterday, too.
I probably should see a "pdoc" as I have discovered you call them here, but my last one is no longer on the insurance I have and we are about to change carriers again, so I'm trying to wait a month or so.
Sweet dreams!
Posted by terra miller on June 10, 2002, at 16:50:57
In reply to Re: Trazodone side effects/wellbutrin wine?, posted by InsomniaMom on June 10, 2002, at 7:42:26
> I don't consume a lot of caffeine. One or two cups of coffee in the morning at the most.
Sometimes that will do it. Notice if you become agitated after consuming your coffee.
>I often have a glass or two of wine with dinner. I know you aren't supposed to "drink" while on Wellbutrin.
That can definately do it. I really like to drink wine with dinner, too. But I have learned that if I am going to have wine, then I am not going to have a good night's sleep. I understand going into it that I am making a trade off. So I don't get to do it as often as I would like (plus the wellbutrin makes my tolerance so low that I think I would pass out after one glass if I didn't eat at the same time.)
I like your exercise routine. You also should make sure you aren't exercizing too late in the day, as that can keep you up as well.
> I probably should see a "pdoc" as I have discovered you call them here, but my last one is no longer on the insurance I have and we are about to change carriers again, so I'm trying to wait a month or so.
Oh boy am I ever singing the same tune! Grrrrr. Sorry you are, too.
Terra
Posted by katekite on July 9, 2002, at 16:01:17
In reply to Trazodone side effects??????, posted by InsomniaMom on June 8, 2002, at 22:52:54
Hi -- I was researching on trazodone just now and saw your post from way back. I was talking to another person with high cortisol on a Cushing's syndrome website, and we were discussing bad reactions to meds in the past and trazodone came up. We both had a bad reaction to it and never tried it again. Your reaction to it sounded similar to the way I've been reacting to drugs during the time I've had Cushing's.
The stretching could have been due to ACTH release (the hormone that controls cortisol release). Well, maybe, that is -- could also be serotonin. The nausea and feeling cold the following day would be you being in a state like Addison's where not enough cortisol is produced. Really guessing here, of course. I'm sure there are other explanations.
Maybe it was just induced by a wellbutrin interaction, but there's a chance you could have a cortisol or other hormonal problem going on. Seems a bit suspicious too that wellbutrin stopped working, what changed about you? Why do you only sleep a few hrs a night? Maybe get a urine free cortisol checked sometime.
Hope its nothing but thought if I didn't say something.... well anyhow it's a thought.
kate
Posted by InsomniaMom on July 10, 2002, at 8:44:52
In reply to insomnia mom, posted by katekite on July 9, 2002, at 16:01:17
Thanks, Kate. I had heard of Cushings before but was very unfamiliar with it, so I did a little research. It sounds like it's in the past for you? I hope so, anyway. Have you found an antidpressant which does not cause such bad side effects for you?
I don't really have many of the Cushings symptoms, though my hormones have given me some problems over the years. Have had several surgeries for stubborn endometriosis/adenomyosis and took something which suppressed the pituitary action which stimulates the release of estrogen from the ovaries for six months in hopes of "starving" the endometriosis. I felt pretty great during those six months so maybe it was also suppressing the release of the cortisol?I am a little "top heavy" but that is basically due to genetics and my skeletal structure and have always had very thin, dry skin. I do not have excess hair, stretch marks or the "moon face" symptoms which were listed for Cushings.I suppose I still could produce too much cortisol because I am so easily "stressed out".
My last test for menopause came out positive so my remaining ovary may have stopped functioning, but I really haven't had many other symptoms...an occasional hot flash. I think it's still pumping out some estrogen though because I occasionally get cyclic breast pain/enlargement/bloating but can't confirm that I get a "period" as I have no longer have a uterus. The endocrine system is so complicated! Don't know if that FSH test is completely accurate.
Thanks for your concern and the info...I have always thought many of my problems were hormonal (like excess estrogen) but know my dr. would diagnose a request for a Cushings test as "hypochondria" as I do not present with most of the classic symptoms.
Take care,
Michelle
Posted by katekite on July 10, 2002, at 9:30:57
In reply to Re: insomnia mom » katekite, posted by InsomniaMom on July 10, 2002, at 8:44:52
I don't have many of the classic symptoms, I am skinny even. I am lucky to have caught it early...not in the past for me, going through lots of testing now. People who have all or most of the symptoms have usually had it continuously for over 5 years without diagnosis (it often starts in an intermittent way). Some of the most "classic" symptoms may only develop at the end, or not at all.
My symptoms: periods got lighter (but I still have them) started a year ago. Mild acne came back (thought it was gone for good). Irritability and depression and stressed at the least thing, kind of comes and goes. Hot flashes that seemed to last a long time (I'm only 30). Insomnia started 18 months ago and has gotten gradually worse although I still sleep ok some nights. Attentional problems like mild ADD and on and off memory problems like words on the tip of my toungue started about 6 months ago. Started being very sensitive to caffeine (found now a couple cups of coffee really sent my heart pumping). About a year ago decided to give up caffeine, except still had a Coke now and then. Now can't tolerate Coke either. Exhausted all the time, just tired, no good reason. Just in the last month: blood pressure problems, racing pulse, red face, muscle weakness, more infections.
Symptoms I've not had: moon face, buffalo hump, weight gain, stretch marks, and any of the masculinizing things which are rare: the hairy-ness.
I was pretty skeptical of the diagnosis at first as I looked up all the symptoms and of course have no moon face... but it turns out no one has every symptom. And as it turns out I am starting to finally get more symptoms. I think it must be underdiagnosed since if I think about it I can almost think I may have had it gradually coming on for possibly 6 years.
Sounds like you have enough hormonal things to keep you busy without worrying about another... just maybe keep it in the back of your mind in case you ever do get any more of the symptoms. I know what its like to be thought of as a hypochondriac and I sure never wanted to bring all these minor symptoms to the attention of my doctor. I only got diagnosed because I had a bad reaction to Ritalin and my psychiatrist decided to test me for Cushing's and a few other things, just in case. A fluke, almost, that I was diagnosed at all.
Take care -- kate
Posted by cybercafe on July 11, 2002, at 1:14:17
In reply to Re: insomnia mom » katekite, posted by InsomniaMom on July 10, 2002, at 8:44:52
> I don't really have many of the Cushings symptoms, though my hormones have given me some problems over the years. Have had several surgeries for stubborn endometriosis/adenomyosis
hmmm.. i read somewhere that high cortisol is usually found in those with agitation and aggression components to their depression... is that right?
Posted by katekite on July 11, 2002, at 10:06:35
In reply to Re: insomnia mom, posted by cybercafe on July 11, 2002, at 1:14:17
Hi -- I'm not sure. It seems to include all types of depression. I do have short anger bursts here and there - real change from my old personality. But I'm not sure if that's true for all. Apparently a sleepy kind of depression is common, although insomnia is also listed as common... the few articles I've seen aren't real clear on exactly what patients experience, or maybe I'm not familiar enough with the depression scales they are using.
Do you recall at all where you saw that? I'd be interested in reading.
kate
Posted by InsomniaMom on July 11, 2002, at 12:40:45
In reply to Re: insomnia mom, posted by katekite on July 10, 2002, at 9:30:57
Kate, I'm really sorry you are still battling with it.
Thanks for the "inside scoop" on the classic symtoms developing later. Like you, I don't have any of the androgenic effects, but I do have some of your other symptoms in addition to the insomnia...ones I was unaware WERE symptoms. Namely the memory problems (words I should know that I seem to have to grasp for sometimes)and my caffeine sensitivity seems to have increased. I've always been sensitive to it, and don't drink anything which contains it other than coffee. Sometimes I can drink two cups without getting too jittery, but that's pretty rare. I haven't even gotten through a whole cup the last few mornings...but maybe that's the ADD thing...I let it get cold. =) My pulse is more rapid than I would like it to be(85-90 resting), but always have been high and it climbs very quickly when I exercise. I get red in the face, too, but that's because I don't sweat.
You mentioned muscular fatigue. Have you had any problems with tendonitis/bursitis? I seem to be damaging my ligaments more easily...probably just middle age. =(
Thanks again for the info and I hope you feel better and find something to help you. I'm glad your dr. caught it!
Michelle
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