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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 9:57:12
any thoughts???
bethanchol??
anything
ross the sexless wonder!!!!!
Posted by Phil on May 5, 2002, at 10:37:44
In reply to guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 9:57:12
You might consider going to a drug-checker site and key in nardil and Gingko Biloba, also Nardil and Viagra. See what it says then go to your doc.
My doc didn't like bethnecol for some reason.
My doc gave me samples of Viagra, I don't take Nardil, and it does help, but can't always overcome, uh-hum, not finding the magic fountain.
Viagra with Nitrates is a problem.Have you ever tried unsuccessfully to reach orgasm after a long, long 'effort', didn't make it. Got up kicked a hole in the wall, cursed god and AD's, thought this is a very unfair side effect. Scared the cat shitless, screamed in frustration and then just go to sleep. Drained and demoralized?
Me neither, but that would suck, wouldn't it???
Phil
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 5, 2002, at 13:12:48
In reply to guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 9:57:12
Did Dr. tell you to be patient 3 months?
Also can treat prn in meantime if you want.
Does your Dr. have experience with Nardil?
Posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 22:14:08
In reply to Dr. Doesn't Know What to Tell You?? He Should., posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 5, 2002, at 13:12:48
chris did you ever have this problem?
what can i prn it with?
i can barely pee. i see doc on the 25th or so.
you know more about ardil on this thread. i take your advice. thanks
ross
Posted by IsoM on May 5, 2002, at 22:25:14
In reply to Re: Dr. Doesn't Know What to Tell You?? He Should., posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 22:14:08
Ross, Spike was one of the longest user of Nardil that I remember. You could probably talk with him about it via e-mail.
Posted by JohnX2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:24
In reply to Re: Dr. Doesn't Know What to Tell You?? He Should., posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 22:14:08
> chris did you ever have this problem?
> what can i prn it with?
> i can barely pee. i see doc on the 25th or so.
> you know more about ardil on this thread. i take your advice. thanks
> rossI haven't heard of urinary retention on Nardil?
But then again I don't know much about Nardil.Reboxetine is known to cause urinary retention,
and the medication Flomax has been shown to reverse
this. One person reported that Flomax reversed
Reboxetine induced erectile dysfunction.Good Luck,
John
Posted by Seamus2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:38
In reply to guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 9:57:12
ross,
A couple weeks back I congratulated you on sticking though this round on Nardil. I gather it is working for you in its appointed manner...
I can't find my post of a few weeks ago because the search function is limited, but the gist was to complain to the Doc and switch to Parnate.
I had the EXACT same problem w/ Nardil and finally switched. Problem solved.
Don't forget to work on the SP in a cognitive manner; I think there's a feedback loop between perceptions and anatomy.
Seamus
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:09:29
In reply to Re: guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by Seamus2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:38
Hey Ross -
I took high dose Nardil (by itself) for 2 years. I was extremely productive at that time, and eventually switched over to low Nardil + Klonopin. However, the high Nardil was good, and I would not change that course of events even if I could go back.
I had the same initial side effects as you. My Dr. reassurred me to be patient. He was right. After a few months all side effects were gone (including the difficulty starting urination), except delayed orgasm which started out as anorgasmia when I got the dose pretty high. The difficulty with urination is an anticholinergic effect I believe which you get also with tricyclics and other drugs. Bechanechol is indicated for that but that should go away in time. Any occasional dizziness on standing, etc. will go away. In my case the initial anorgasmia had me very scared. Luckily my Dr. kept reassurring me, and after a few months at the high dose thing were suddenly improved. Once you adjust then on a 2nd retrial you will quickly adapt to Nardil, and also it may not take as long as 3 months to adjust the first trial.
You can try Parnate also. Although if you are doing well with Nardil and you probably have tried other stuff which is why you are trying Nardil - it is worth staying with it, just annoying to wait out the side effects initially for some people.
After adjusting I had retained efficacy and I did have sexual side effects, and while they were annoying they were no worse than I experienced with 50 Zoloft or 30 Paxil. And everything else was far better so it was an easy call.
You might try bechanechol, or prostigmin if your Dr. is ok with those. The cholinergic meds are probably good since some of the initial side effects are due to anticholinergic effects.
If you want to aggressively treat sexual side effects in the early adjusting perior you can and Dr's vary. Cautious trials of very low Ritalin and even Serzone with or without Ritalin for example. Both of those drugs might be considered dangerous to combine though. Personally I would not since you are getting the most potent Nardil effect right now. I would go with cholinergics at first (Viagra has similar effects to a cholinergic also).
If you add a stimulant, ritilin will promote libido, decrease delay, improve erection, etc. (How is that for clinical talk?) You should try only extremely tiny doses at first and measure BP changes if you do that - check PDR and ask Dr though. Serzone may have a similar effect. When I added Serzone to 75mg Nardil I felt as though I were taking Parnate (not good for social phobia). But there was an obvious prosexual effect. I tried that only because I had taken 300 Serzone with Zoloft 50 previously also to combat sexual side effects as well as fatigue and improve socialbility.
Which reminds me - as for Parnate I would say it is worth trying. However do keep in mind that most people with significant social phobia do much better with Nardil than with Parnate. Parnate taken alone was of little use to me - in fact it may have caused me trouble at work.
Still - occasionally people to get good results for SP from Parnate.
Good luck.
BTW, Seamus - what do/did you use Parnate for? Did it work well all by itself?
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:13:19
In reply to Re: guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by Seamus2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:38
Hi Seamus2 -
Was curious how you fared with Parnate for Social Phobia? What were comorbidities? Any meds accompany Parnate? How was end state fucntioning versus off meds?
Very curious it would be great to hear someone describe excellent results from Parnate - I've heard so far only 1 person who had partial success for primary generalized SP from it though...
Ray
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:34:30
In reply to Re: guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by Seamus2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:38
I should mention that Serzone probably should not be combined with Nardil. The risk can technically include serotonin syndrome and hypertenise crisis. Still, I took Serzone 100-200/day with Nardil 60mg for 5 months. For me 60mg is low dose of Nardil, and 90mg was high dose.
Ritalin also is controversial to combine with Nardil, and many Dr's will not combine them, while some will. The required dose goes down since Nardil potentiates the effect. Tiny doses can work well. But again there is technically risk of hypertensive crisis - also hypotension which is probably just as likely. In my case I had no adverse effects except beviorally (aggression).
The best thing in my opinion is to be safe about things at first. Once you adjust to Nardil things will be different.
BTW, serzone probably works by reducing serotonin, ritalin by increasing dopamine and norepinephrine, and cholinergics by reducing anticholinergic effects. The anticholinergic effects probably are worst in the first few months and the safest to treat thus I would suggest if treating any side effect early on to try an anticholinergic first.
Ray
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:45:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Doesn't Know What to Tell You?? He Should. » ross, posted by JohnX2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:24
BTW I meant to end last msg with "cholinergic" not ANTI cholinergic...
Flomax - not heard of it sounds like it increases urine flow.
The urine problem is not too debilitating I personally would just wait on that to go away and enjoy the awesome effects of Nardil in the meantime.
Ray
Posted by ross on May 6, 2002, at 22:13:27
In reply to Nardil and waning of side effects, posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:09:29
kregpark thank you very much for all your input. i really appreciate it. thanks
ross
Posted by Vince on May 6, 2002, at 23:26:12
In reply to guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil, posted by ross on May 5, 2002, at 9:57:12
Try a combination of three or four of the following natural remedies. I've listed them in my own order of preference. This worked for me much better than Viagra, or any other prescription that I've tried.
- Epimedium Sagitatum extract(arial),
- Maca (Lepidium meyenii)(root),
- Potency Wood (Muira puama)(arial),
- Avena Sativa extract(ariel),
- Yohimbe extract (Pausinystalia yohimba)(bark), (yohimbe may cause nerviousnes - probably not good for people with GAD or depression - IMO.
- L-Arginine,
- Zinc (or ZMA)
- Tribulus Terresteris extract(arial),Also: low dose selegiline.
You can find all of these (except selegiline) at:
https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi
I like this site because it sells in bulk which makes the products much cheaper. The downside is that you have to cap the products yourself because if you take them without capping them most of them taste nasty.
Vince
Posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 7, 2002, at 0:10:00
In reply to Re: guys help me with the anorgasmia from Nardil » ross, posted by Vince on May 6, 2002, at 23:26:12
Hi Ross -
I just wanted to thank you for the kind words..
Hopefully other long term Nardil users will have additional posts...
Also, very importantly - I have to mention something regarding the last post by Vince.
DANGER INTERACTION SELEGELINE + NARDIL XXXXXXXX
Those are both MAOI's and that is a HIGHLY DANGEROUS MIX.
Feel free to write me at anytime down the line if you have any comments/questions, etc. ray_3888@yahoo.com (I used to be named kregpark).
Best Regards,
Ray
Posted by christophrejmc on May 7, 2002, at 18:24:30
In reply to Nardil and waning of side effects, posted by kregpark@yahoo.com on May 6, 2002, at 15:09:29
I also experienced moderate urinary hesitancy from Nardil. It got better over a few weeks and was replaced by a few days of increased urinary frequency (cholinergic rebound?).
Re the anorgasmia: have you tried anything yet? Do you think it might be related to your urinary difficulties? If so, bethanechol or Flomax might be worth a try. Viagra is safe to combine with Nardil, but I'm not sure how well it works for anorgasmia.
Have you had this problem on other antidepressants? Cyproheptadine has been used for SSRI-induced anorgasmia, and it appears to be safe to use with Nardil.Have you discussed anything with your doctor yet?
-Chris
Posted by timidly on January 26, 2003, at 22:52:09
In reply to Re: Dr. Doesn't Know What to Tell You?? He Should. » ross, posted by JohnX2 on May 6, 2002, at 1:43:24
> > chris did you ever have this problem?
> > what can i prn it with?
> > i can barely pee. i see doc on the 25th or so.
> > you know more about ardil on this thread. i take your advice. thanks
> > ross
>
> I haven't heard of urinary retention on Nardil?
> But then again I don't know much about Nardil.
>
> Reboxetine is known to cause urinary retention,
> and the medication Flomax has been shown to reverse
> this. One person reported that Flomax reversed
> Reboxetine induced erectile dysfunction.
>
> Good Luck,
> JohnI've had urinary retention, symptoms mimicing prostrate problems, interupted stream, etc. for days to weeks after changing Nardil dosage over the 26 years I've been on it. It was the urologist I saw for the "second opinion" that finally figured out that Nardil was the cause. It's "just one of those things" that you learn to put up with.
This is the end of the thread.
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