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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
Hello all,
I haven't had a drink in 6 months or more because I decided it was a bad idea because I'm bipolar II and it rocks the boat too much. Anyway, at my last hospital stay the doctor said to me that "normal" people just get relaxed by alcohol but don't really get any major mood elevation. Well, alcohol definitely elevates my mood. I mean, I really really like alcohol, but does this make me an alcoholic? I would drink until I passed out most of the time but a lot of people do. Since I've stopped I definitely crave beer - even 6 months later my mouth waters and something perks up inside me when I think of drinking. However, drinking never got in the way of my life and I didn't have any trouble stopping. Does this mean I'm not an alcoholic? The doctor at the hospital told me that it takes time to develop a problem. Is this possible... I'm confused?
Thanks,
Jon
Posted by jonh kimble on April 25, 2002, at 22:56:34
In reply to Questions about *Alcoholism*, posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
hey jon. sorry i cant answer your question but i did want to comment on how you said that alcohol really makes you feel good. this is definetly the case for me too. in fact, even one drink greatly elevates me in many ways. most people in my family get this (as well as alsoholism) although i feel really good from it, i am quite moderate and it does not interfere with anything (except speech and walking at the time). whats strange is that my friends who drink with me do not get this at all, they become a bit more chatty and relaxed after a few drinks, while im dancing on the table in euphoria. (in fact i think ill go do that right now.) what do you think? and by the way, bi polar is BIG in my family (but not me)
jon
Posted by oona on April 25, 2002, at 23:07:32
In reply to Questions about *Alcoholism*, posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
> Hello all,
>
> I haven't had a drink in 6 months or more because I decided it was a bad idea because I'm bipolar II and it rocks the boat too much. Anyway, at my last hospital stay the doctor said to me that "normal" people just get relaxed by alcohol but don't really get any major mood elevation. Well, alcohol definitely elevates my mood. I mean, I really really like alcohol, but does this make me an alcoholic? I would drink until I passed out most of the time but a lot of people do. Since I've stopped I definitely crave beer - even 6 months later my mouth waters and something perks up inside me when I think of drinking. However, drinking never got in the way of my life and I didn't have any trouble stopping. Does this mean I'm not an alcoholic? The doctor at the hospital told me that it takes time to develop a problem. Is this possible... I'm confused?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
Hi Jon,I am not an expert but when you said you drank until you passed out and "a lot of people do", I had to smile a little because I used to think that to. I realized later that those that "drank till they passed out" had a problem also. Whether you want to call it "alcoholism" or a problem with drinking. I am not sure about what the doc said about it 'taking time' to develop a drinking problem. My drinking was always a problem from the get go. It was never just 2 drinks at a party, then a coffee to go home. When it gets to the point where you are "passing out", I would stop and think about it.
I also stopped drinking about 7 years ago when I first started on Zoloft. It really did take my craving away. Even now, tho I know I never want to drink again, it still is in the back of my mind.
Jon, it is better not to drink, if you have a choice and if you are young now, it will save you and your family a lot of grief in the future.
I did a lot of "party drinking" when I was younger, then a lot of what I called "sustenance" drinking as I got older. Just to keep myself together. There is a lot of bi-polar and manic depressives in my family and also a lot of alcohol and drug abuse. I think they may go hand in hand.
I am 53 now and still feel the effects of my father's drinking, my drinking, my husband's drinking, my sons drinking and drug abuse and if you want to go back further, the destruction that drinking caused in my maternal and paternal families.
Sorry to go on so long.
Good luck with your journey, stay optimistic and stay sober if you are able.oona
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 28, 2002, at 12:01:16
In reply to Questions about *Alcoholism*, posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
good question. i am tired of the term "alcoholism" myself. it's degrading and vague.
i wish i knew what it's like to be a "normal" person and drink. i am bipolar, and i know my reactions to it are not "normal".
it is better not to drink, of course, if on meds. i tell myself this everyday. do i still drink? sometimes, but it's Much better, and i actually do take pride in that.
what if it takes me several years to stop, or what if i never do, but i lower it considerably? an alcohol counselor is probably going to say i'm kidding myself, or that that is not enough. but that's just discouraging the patient imo, and i don't buy into that anymore. one does the best one can.
i don't know, jon. i think we "mentally ill" do often have drinking problems. and i don't think it's something to feel odd or stigmatized about. my guess is it is somehow connected to our faulty brain wiring.
if you do start drinking again, keep track of how it affects your relationships, also your health. if you're honest with yourself, you'll know when it's not worth it to imbibe anymore. then, if it's difficult to stop that time around, seek support (does Not have to be AA!).
and the right med helps - my stabilizer has helped me curb the self-medicating part of it a lot.
good luck.
- kk
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on April 28, 2002, at 17:00:57
In reply to Questions about *Alcoholism*, posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
Posted by Phil on April 29, 2002, at 18:12:19
In reply to Re: Questions about *Alcoholism* » JonW, posted by Krazy Kat on April 28, 2002, at 12:01:16
You think the term alcoholism is bad, grow up with drunks. Do you have any idea what a low bottom drunk is, my mom was, it's incredibly painful to watch.
If you have a parent that's alcoholic, or uncle, etc. you have a 4 times greater risk of becoming one yourself.
And, believe me, it ain't as simple as,'gone too far, just get help-doesn't have to be AA.' That is naive and bad information. People who drink too much, especially on top of mental-illness, are one day going to see a pit so deep they might not get out. I've seen it many times.
If you are to the point of trying to drink less or counting your drinks, or stopping for a month just to see if you can, you already have a problem. This is my opinion but I have been around more drunks than you can shake a stick at.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 19:49:07
In reply to Re: Questions about *Alcoholism*kk, posted by Phil on April 29, 2002, at 18:12:19
>> You think the term alcoholism is bad, grow up with drunks. Do you have any idea what a low bottom drunk is, my mom was, it's incredibly painful to watch.
=== phil - no, i only grew up with some people who drank too much. but i still have a problem with the term, "alcoholics". some people whom you call "drunks" can be very easy to deal with - i have seen that. people can also be very abusive when they don't drink a drop.
> If you have a parent that's alcoholic, or uncle, etc. you have a 4 times greater risk of becoming one yourself.
=== i would guess that's genetics...> And, believe me, it ain't as simple as,'gone too far, just get help-doesn't have to be AA.' That is naive and bad information.
=== why are you still posting so unsupportively? i am not naive on this issue. i don't like AA - that's my opinion. there are plenty of secular and other support groups out there.
>> People who drink too much, especially on top of mental-illness, are one day going to see a pit so deep they might not get out. I've seen it many times.
== isn't this generalizing? they may live to be 90 +years old like Bob Hope and George Burns. How about Frank Sinatra - those guys drank like "fish". they also smoked incessantly. those are just innocent examples - there may be better.
> If you are to the point of trying to drink less or counting your drinks, or stopping for a month just to see if you can, you already have a problem. This is my opinion but I have been around more drunks than you can shake a stick at.
> Take what you like and leave the rest.== I'm tired of reading what are "abusive" posts from you, phil, and being told to take what you like and leave the rest. once they're read, the concept's locked in your mind.
== you exemplified exactly what i was saying - that you "Feel" i already have a problem. some people Can cut back and drink "moderately" after drinking heavily for years. I'VE seen that.
== and when you're trying to cut back on stress, so that you don't have more episodes and a more difficult life, it can be easier to give yourself some room sometimes instead of getting obsessive and overly conservative about it.
== By the way, i find the term "drunks" offensive. the same way someone overweight would find "fatty" offensive. It's out-of-date and pious.
== and further, since, i'm still reeling and crying from an earlier post (not yours) -- i'm tired of the info i'm getting here and the reactions to my attempts to be supportive, offer perhaps different views, and get support, AND learn from my mistakes so i do a better job.
== i don't want to relinquish my place here, so to speak, but i'm going to have to. it's just not the same. everyone's defensive, the "leader" doesn't seem concerned that a member of his group is gone forever...
== i'm terrified - this has been one of the only places at times that kept me here...
- kk.
Posted by Phil on April 29, 2002, at 21:41:56
In reply to phil - i'm tired and leaving...., posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 19:49:07
So, you don't have to go over this post. I don't know if it happened when I switched to Adderall but I've had a really short fuse. On the board and off.
Believe me, it's nothing you said. If someone says hello to me right now, they may wish they hadn't.
I'm still talking to this lady from hell I was seeing months ago. Until I stop, I'll be pissed at myself and the world. But you're safe as far as I'm concerned. This has been a not so good last few months. I apologize..Phil
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 22:02:10
In reply to Re: kk-I haven't been in a good mood }}just angry, posted by Phil on April 29, 2002, at 21:41:56
thanks for the reply. but i've had too much lately. perhaps i'll see you later.
take care.
- kk
Posted by judy1 on April 29, 2002, at 23:34:55
In reply to it's o.k., but it's too late for now » Phil, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 22:02:10
Then take some time and be really kind to yourself. We all have our own ways of healing, and I hope you have a good network of support- if not is that something you can work on? Just I have so may problems when I isolate myself, makes me more depressed, etc. I wish you only the best- Judy
Posted by Phil on April 30, 2002, at 6:27:34
In reply to it's o.k., but it's too late for now » Phil, posted by Krazy Kat on April 29, 2002, at 22:02:10
me, too. Let's go fishing.
Posted by Cindylou on April 30, 2002, at 11:59:00
In reply to Questions about *Alcoholism*, posted by JonW on April 25, 2002, at 22:30:51
Hi Jon,
I used to love alcohol. It also energized me to no end -- made me an extrovert (when I'm really an introvert), made me everybody's best friend, the life of the party, etc. (It's interesting to me that bipolars react to alcohol that way -- I didn't know that. I have just been diagnosed as BP II.)A good rule of thumb to verify if you're an alcoholic is: do you ever have black-outs? Where you wake up in the morning and don't remember portions of the night before? That's a true sign of alcoholism -- I was told by a substance abuse specialist.
I always thought EVERYONE had blackouts! I had them all the time! But this expert told me that most people will pass out before they get to the point of still functioning but not remembering the next day.
I thought I didn't have a problem because I COULD stop drinking after a beer or two if I really wanted to (I just usually didn't want to), and I didn't drink every night or every day. But this expert said there was an "invisible line" that alcoholics cross -- when they are truly physically addicted and need detox, etc. I just hadn't crossed that invisible line yet, but it was only a matter of time, she said.
I stopped drinking before I crossed that line, and I do believe I am an alcoholic, even though I never ended up in a drunk tank.
Like Kat said, medication helped me to curb my appetite for alcohol -- I was definitely self-medicating on alcohol because it made me feel so AWESOME. I do miss it sometimes (just not the horrendous hangovers.)
Congrats for not drinking for 6 months -- it's not easy. I think you are making the right decision to look into this alcoholism issue. I believe that staying away from alcohol is the best thing to do for me and my family.
Good luck and take care!
cindy> Hello all,
>
> I haven't had a drink in 6 months or more because I decided it was a bad idea because I'm bipolar II and it rocks the boat too much. Anyway, at my last hospital stay the doctor said to me that "normal" people just get relaxed by alcohol but don't really get any major mood elevation. Well, alcohol definitely elevates my mood. I mean, I really really like alcohol, but does this make me an alcoholic? I would drink until I passed out most of the time but a lot of people do. Since I've stopped I definitely crave beer - even 6 months later my mouth waters and something perks up inside me when I think of drinking. However, drinking never got in the way of my life and I didn't have any trouble stopping. Does this mean I'm not an alcoholic? The doctor at the hospital told me that it takes time to develop a problem. Is this possible... I'm confused?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
Posted by kid47 on April 30, 2002, at 13:10:55
In reply to Re: Questions about *Alcoholism* » JonW, posted by Krazy Kat on April 28, 2002, at 12:01:16
Hi. For a sizeable portion of my adult life, I was considered, by what I think is a pretty broad definition, an alcoholic. Upon release after spending some time in the hospital for depression, I noticed I was less inclined to drink heavily. Now at 49 yrs old I can have a beer or occasional glass of wine even a Martini without negative effects. For the past three years I have been able to "social" drink & even cop an occasional buzz. One of the only good things to come out of my depression is an awareness that daily drinking of lotsa booze makes me feel like sh*t. But the moderate consumption of alcohol can actually be beneficial. I know there are people who don't have the option of an occasional drink, but for some of us with past alcohol problems this is possible. IMHO
> good question. i am tired of the term "alcoholism" myself. it's degrading and vague.
>
> i wish i knew what it's like to be a "normal" person and drink. i am bipolar, and i know my reactions to it are not "normal".
>
> it is better not to drink, of course, if on meds. i tell myself this everyday. do i still drink? sometimes, but it's Much better, and i actually do take pride in that.
>
> what if it takes me several years to stop, or what if i never do, but i lower it considerably? an alcohol counselor is probably going to say i'm kidding myself, or that that is not enough. but that's just discouraging the patient imo, and i don't buy into that anymore. one does the best one can.
>
> i don't know, jon. i think we "mentally ill" do often have drinking problems. and i don't think it's something to feel odd or stigmatized about. my guess is it is somehow connected to our faulty brain wiring.
>
> if you do start drinking again, keep track of how it affects your relationships, also your health. if you're honest with yourself, you'll know when it's not worth it to imbibe anymore. then, if it's difficult to stop that time around, seek support (does Not have to be AA!).
>
> and the right med helps - my stabilizer has helped me curb the self-medicating part of it a lot.
>
> good luck.
>
> - kk
This is the end of the thread.
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