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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
Hey folks:I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.
I can't do the maoi's because I have had blood pressure problems to begin with, and there is no way I could ever stick to even the minimalist of diets. Mannerix (moclobemide) just made me anxious and grumpy. I've been down the SSRI road, and they just leave me grumpy, sad, and anxious.
Has clomipramine been good, esp. in terms of side effects? How about imipramine? I have been on desipramine, but didn't like it. Amitriptyline just left me major zonked.
Any input appreciated....
Thanks..
Jay
Posted by misty99 on February 20, 2002, at 16:43:50
In reply to What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
Jay,
Have you tried Nortriptyline? If you already mentioned this in your post, please forgive me as it's hard for me to keep track of the generic and brand names.
I know who felt it was very helpful for anxiety and panic disorder. Forget what the person said about depression though.
Good luck.
Misty
Posted by OldSchool on February 20, 2002, at 18:53:53
In reply to What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
>
> Hey folks:
>
> I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.
>
> I can't do the maoi's because I have had blood pressure problems to begin with, and there is no way I could ever stick to even the minimalist of diets. Mannerix (moclobemide) just made me anxious and grumpy. I've been down the SSRI road, and they just leave me grumpy, sad, and anxious.Hmmmmmmmm SSRIs shouldnt make you grumpy and sad. There is a problem there IMO. This sounds bipolarish to me.
>
> Has clomipramine been good, esp. in terms of side effects? How about imipramine? I have been on desipramine, but didn't like it. Amitriptyline just left me major zonked.Ever tried Remeron? Its good for depression with mixed anxiety. What about a mood stabilizer? Tried lithium? Lamictal?
Old School
Posted by spike4848 on February 20, 2002, at 19:09:04
In reply to What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
>
> Hey folks:
> I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.> > Jay
Hey Jay,
I think serzone would be helpful .... an SSRI may decrease anxiety maybe by about 30% .... an MAOI will decrease anxiety by 80 to 90% .... TCA I personally do not feel are that helpful with anxiety/social phobia.
Other options are klonopin and neurontin. They are becoming gold standards for anxiety/social phobia.
Go to this web site by Ray www.socialfear.com
Hope this helped.
Spike
Posted by BobS. on February 20, 2002, at 19:47:13
In reply to What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
Jay,
If you are only dealing with anxiety disorders, and I have them all, then I suggest either Xanax or Klonopin. I take Xanax. Forget any variant of SSRI, TCA, etc. It's only a matter of time until the SSRI bubble bursts as an anxiety treatment. I work in the field of Clinical Trials and can assure you that the SSRI studies were probably rigged to sell drugs to the anxiety market. See "THE CONSTANT GARDENER" by John LeCarre.
Good Luck
Posted by jay on February 21, 2002, at 15:45:08
In reply to Re: What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by BobS. on February 20, 2002, at 19:47:13
> Jay,
> If you are only dealing with anxiety disorders, and I have them all, then I suggest either Xanax or Klonopin. I take Xanax. Forget any variant of SSRI, TCA, etc. It's only a matter of time until the SSRI bubble bursts as an anxiety treatment. I work in the field of Clinical Trials and can assure you that the SSRI studies were probably rigged to sell drugs to the anxiety market. See "THE CONSTANT GARDENER" by John LeCarre.
> Good LuckThanks for your comments, and is this book by Lecarre widely available? I agree with you 100 percent, and I am actually considering starting up a website to prmote benzo use and educate people about them. Are you, or anybody else interested in this?
Thanks...
James
Posted by jay on February 21, 2002, at 15:47:30
In reply to Hey Ho Hey Ho Hey Ho » jay, posted by spike4848 on February 20, 2002, at 19:09:04
> >
> > Hey folks:
> > I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.
>
> > > Jay
>
> Hey Jay,
>
> I think serzone would be helpful .... an SSRI may decrease anxiety maybe by about 30% .... an MAOI will decrease anxiety by 80 to 90% .... TCA I personally do not feel are that helpful with anxiety/social phobia.
>
> Other options are klonopin and neurontin. They are becoming gold standards for anxiety/social phobia.
>
> Go to this web site by Ray www.socialfear.com
>
> Hope this helped.
>
> SpikeThanks Spike. I did find Serzone to be one of the best a.d.'s, but it left me feeling SO tired and drained, and it also left me with horrible flu/cold like symptoms. I have checked out Ray's website, and it is excellent. I am using clonazepam/klonipin now in a good dose, and it is great.
Thanks!
Jay
Posted by jay on February 21, 2002, at 15:54:25
In reply to Re: What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by OldSchool on February 20, 2002, at 18:53:53
> >
> > Hey folks:
> >
> > I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.
> >
> > I can't do the maoi's because I have had blood pressure problems to begin with, and there is no way I could ever stick to even the minimalist of diets. Mannerix (moclobemide) just made me anxious and grumpy. I've been down the SSRI road, and they just leave me grumpy, sad, and anxious.
>
> Hmmmmmmmm SSRIs shouldnt make you grumpy and sad. There is a problem there IMO. This sounds bipolarish to me.I wondered this too, but then stumbled upon a number of recent studies with SSRI's, in which "normals" (a stupid term) where given an SSRI, and they had nasty anxiety and angry feelings, even though they where not depressed. I think the problem is docs are diagnosing everybody who doesn't do well on a SSRI as being bipolar. Maybe they should consider this class of meds has really bad adverse effects, and start them off on much, much smaller doses. Dr. Mike Norden advocated liquid Prozac, starting at 2mg for two weeks, then bumping up as people can tolerate it.
> >
> > Has clomipramine been good, esp. in terms of side effects? How about imipramine? I have been on desipramine, but didn't like it. Amitriptyline just left me major zonked.
>
> Ever tried Remeron? Its good for depression with mixed anxiety. What about a mood stabilizer? Tried lithium? Lamictal?
>
> Old SchoolYep, tried em all. NOTHING beats clonazepam or the benzos, period. Doctors are prejudice against this med because of all the hype and scares so they can sell us much more expensive antidepressants. IMHO..
Thanks..
Jay
Posted by jay on February 21, 2002, at 15:57:12
In reply to Re: What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by misty99 on February 20, 2002, at 16:43:50
> Jay,
>
> Have you tried Nortriptyline? If you already mentioned this in your post, please forgive me as it's hard for me to keep track of the generic and brand names.
>
> I know who felt it was very helpful for anxiety and panic disorder. Forget what the person said about depression though.
>
> Good luck.
>
> MistyHi...thanks.
I found Nortriptyline to be an excellent antidepressant, but not an anti-anxiety med. Doctors seem confused on this, that an antidepressant=antianxiety med. It works great for depression, though, and I would recommend folks give this a shot, maybe even before trying an SSRI or the like.
Thanks!
Jay
Posted by BobS. on February 21, 2002, at 18:41:56
In reply to Re: What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI » BobS., posted by jay on February 21, 2002, at 15:45:08
> > Jay,
> > If you are only dealing with anxiety disorders, and I have them all, then I suggest either Xanax or Klonopin. I take Xanax. Forget any variant of SSRI, TCA, etc. It's only a matter of time until the SSRI bubble bursts as an anxiety treatment. I work in the field of Clinical Trials and can assure you that the SSRI studies were probably rigged to sell drugs to the anxiety market. See "THE CONSTANT GARDENER" by John LeCarre.
> > Good Luck
>
> Thanks for your comments, and is this book by Lecarre widely available? I agree with you 100 percent, and I am actually considering starting up a website to prmote benzo use and educate people about them. Are you, or anybody else interested in this?
>
> Thanks...
>
> James
I'd be interested in anything that would give me back the 10 years I wasted on SSRIs, and more importantly help others avoid the crap. What I would like to get together is a group of interested people who have the time and interest to pursue the drug companies, FDA, etc. through the legal or quasi-legal process. For example, using the Freedom of Information Act to get at the NDAa submitted to the FDA by GSK for Paxil. I would be tireless and relentless in that kind of endeavor. Also, I believe it's the only way we anxiety sufferers can move science forward. Right now it's stuck, and I have two teenagers who will need anxiety help as they go through life. Unfortunately, I haven't a clue where to begin. There is the Paxil class action underway right now, but that effort is not attempting to achieve the "lofty" goals I mentioned above. Let me know if you have any ideas....
Posted by Frankie on February 22, 2002, at 2:21:01
In reply to What antidepressant best for GAD/PANIC/SOCIALPHOBI, posted by jay on February 20, 2002, at 16:26:56
>
> Hey folks:
>
> I really need some big time help on this one. I have been on Effexor for years, and it just seems to lightly touch anxiety, but also makes it 100x worse. I also take a benzo, but find I have to gulp back a pound of benzos because of the anxiety effexor causes.
>
> I can't do the maoi's because I have had blood pressure problems to begin with, and there is no way I could ever stick to even the minimalist of diets. Mannerix (moclobemide) just made me anxious and grumpy. I've been down the SSRI road, and they just leave me grumpy, sad, and anxious.
>
> Has clomipramine been good, esp. in terms of side effects? How about imipramine? I have been on desipramine, but didn't like it. Amitriptyline just left me major zonked.
>
> Any input appreciated....
>
> Thanks..Jay,
For certain an MAO-I would be ideal for your situation, because it is much like mine. I suffer primary OCD, social anxiety, GAD, and slight panic dis. Nardil would be ideal. Since this is not an option for you, or for me either, I would suggest Remeron. The tricyclics you suggest supposedly cause terrible side effects. Worse the higher the dosage. Remeron causes few side efects, and will treat all these conditions well. Probably sedating though, since it has antihistamine action. Or, a good combination. Paxil, Celexa, or Zoloft, with a benzodiazepine like Klonopin, would be ideal. The benzo's are not as dangerous as they are made out to be. Zoloft is good, but really strong! I felt like I was on "acid". It does work well though, for all these conditions. Any of the SSRi's with a benzo would be ideal. I would first try Remeron though. Not with a benzo! You will be all f####d up! Too much sedation. Good luck.
Frankie.
>
> Jay
This is the end of the thread.
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