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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by glenn on December 5, 2001, at 5:44:25
Ihave seen people mention ruminating before on this board and Im not sure what it means
but I think I might be suffering from this. In my case I have thoughts, usually about my condotion that go around and around and I cant get rid of them or concentrate on anything else until they go.
They might be things as simple as- "I feel horrible today" or going over and over something I have read again and again and tend to be accompanied by a very unpleasant wired or agitated/ anxious feeling.
Would this be rumination and if so do people have any med suggestions as ads seem to
either make it worse or be useless.
Thanks in advance for any information you may have, it feels as if my brain and to a leeser extent body are on overdrive!
olichris
Posted by sid on December 5, 2001, at 11:26:11
In reply to Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention, posted by glenn on December 5, 2001, at 5:44:25
Yeah, what you describe sound like ruminating.
Ruminants, like cows, have 3 or 4 stomachs, and they digest their food over and over. So if you think about the same things over and over while it is useless and even bothers you or prevents you from doing what you want to do (read a paragraph, work,...), then you're ruminating.
It might have to do with anxiety or with obsessive behaviour. I am not sure which. I know major depression made me like that. I had "black thoughts" over and over. I called them that because they felt like a dark cloud over my head. Terrible feeling it was.
Medicines could help, by alleviating the depression or by treating anxiety or obsessive behavior if that's what it is - talk to your doctor about this.
Cognitive therapy could also help: you would learn to stop these thoughts. You catch yourself as you think them and DECIDE to stop them and think of something else or do something each time you have them. As I understand, your current condition is no fun, there is no need to feel bad about feeling bad on top of it. Try rationalizing it if you can. There are well known books on cognitive (and behavioral) therapy that might help you. It helped me a lot in the past and I still use it when I'm stressed out. If you're having trouble reading these days (I did during major depression), then try to find a therapist or group therapy that might suit you.
I hope it helps and you find a way of alleviating the rumination.
> Ihave seen people mention ruminating before on this board and Im not sure what it means
> but I think I might be suffering from this. In my case I have thoughts, usually about my condotion that go around and around and I cant get rid of them or concentrate on anything else until they go.
> They might be things as simple as- "I feel horrible today" or going over and over something I have read again and again and tend to be accompanied by a very unpleasant wired or agitated/ anxious feeling.
> Would this be rumination and if so do people have any med suggestions as ads seem to
> either make it worse or be useless.
> Thanks in advance for any information you may have, it feels as if my brain and to a leeser extent body are on overdrive!
> olichris
Posted by JackD on December 5, 2001, at 12:06:19
In reply to Re: Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention » glenn, posted by sid on December 5, 2001, at 11:26:11
Here in my opinion are the best meds for ruminating thoughts/obsessive thinking:
Remeron
Klonopin
Paxil
ZyprexaThey are in order of lightest to heaviest in terms of side-effects, danger, or withdrawal symptoms. And yes, Paxil has pretty nasty withdrawal. Remeron works good for blocking "bad" thoughts and is a potent antidepressant, Klonopin kinda makes you less introverted so to speak and narrows your thoughts (keeps you from thinking a million thoughts at once), Paxil numbs well and blocks some negative thoughts, and Zyprexa REALLY blocks thoughts (but always has that risk of extra-pyramidal symptoms).
Posted by MB on December 6, 2001, at 12:48:54
In reply to Re: Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention » glenn, posted by sid on December 5, 2001, at 11:26:11
In psychiatry, I think, there is another type of behavior sometimes referred to as "rumination"...where the patient repeatedly vomits into their mouth and swallows it. I think it's something that occers mainly in infants (or that's what the DMS says).
Posted by svevo1922 on December 6, 2001, at 12:50:55
In reply to Re: Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention, posted by JackD on December 5, 2001, at 12:06:19
I've read that the very best med for OCD is clomipramine (anafranil). Unfortunately, many people find the side effects too unpleasant to continue the medication for long. Think I read on one of the medical info web sites that in one of the trials of clomipramine something like 20% of the study participants dropped out because of the side effects.
You might also want to take a look at a web site called "OCD Online." Among other kinds of OCD, it discusses a kind called "pure obsessional," the category into which rumination would fall.
Needless to say, this is not an attempt at lay diagnosis. I'm responding to your description of your symptoms. But it's good to be aware of disorders in addition to garden variety depression in case your pdoc gets stuck. The more I read about the range and variety of these illnesses, the more I think the DSM IV is a somewhat ridiculous book.
..................................................
> Here in my opinion are the best meds for ruminating thoughts/obsessive thinking:
>
>
> Remeron
> Klonopin
> Paxil
> Zyprexa
>
> They are in order of lightest to heaviest in terms of side-effects, danger, or withdrawal symptoms. And yes, Paxil has pretty nasty withdrawal. Remeron works good for blocking "bad" thoughts and is a potent antidepressant, Klonopin kinda makes you less introverted so to speak and narrows your thoughts (keeps you from thinking a million thoughts at once), Paxil numbs well and blocks some negative thoughts, and Zyprexa REALLY blocks thoughts (but always has that risk of extra-pyramidal symptoms).
Posted by svevo1922 on December 6, 2001, at 12:51:05
In reply to Re: Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention, posted by JackD on December 5, 2001, at 12:06:19
I've read that the very best med for OCD is clomipramine (anafranil). Unfortunately, many people find the side effects too unpleasant to continue the medication for long. Think I read on one of the medical info web sites that in one of the trials of clomipramine something like 20% of the study participants dropped out because of the side effects.
You might also want to take a look at a web site called "OCD Online." Among other kinds of OCD, it discusses a kind called "pure obsessional," the category into which rumination would fall.
Needless to say, this is not an attempt at lay diagnosis. I'm responding to your description of your symptoms. But it's good to be aware of disorders in addition to garden variety depression in case your pdoc gets stuck. The more I read about the range and variety of these illnesses, the more I think the DSM IV is a somewhat ridiculous book.
..................................................
> Here in my opinion are the best meds for ruminating thoughts/obsessive thinking:
>
>
> Remeron
> Klonopin
> Paxil
> Zyprexa
>
> They are in order of lightest to heaviest in terms of side-effects, danger, or withdrawal symptoms. And yes, Paxil has pretty nasty withdrawal. Remeron works good for blocking "bad" thoughts and is a potent antidepressant, Klonopin kinda makes you less introverted so to speak and narrows your thoughts (keeps you from thinking a million thoughts at once), Paxil numbs well and blocks some negative thoughts, and Zyprexa REALLY blocks thoughts (but always has that risk of extra-pyramidal symptoms).
Posted by ChrisK on December 8, 2001, at 5:47:20
In reply to Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention, posted by glenn on December 5, 2001, at 5:44:25
Been there/done that and nothing has worked as well as Zyprexa. I had really deep ruminating thoughts of death and suicide that clouded any other thoughts. After Zyprexa I cna think much more clearly and the ruminating has stopped. Talk to your doctor about it. My own experience is that it is the best for such clouded thinking.
Chris
Posted by Elizabeth on December 8, 2001, at 10:16:08
In reply to Re: Ruminating -what is this?Ihave seen people mention, posted by ChrisK on December 8, 2001, at 5:47:20
> Been there/done that and nothing has worked as well as Zyprexa. I had really deep ruminating thoughts of death and suicide that clouded any other thoughts. After Zyprexa I cna think much more clearly and the ruminating has stopped. Talk to your doctor about it. My own experience is that it is the best for such clouded thinking.
Ruminative anxiety is very common, and it responds to a whole lot of different kinds of meds -- antipsychotics, benzodiazepines, antidepressants, sometimes even stimulants. It can go along with almost any anxiety disorder (not just OCD) as well as depression and ADD. I have pretty much no idea how to predict who will respond to what, though. I guess you just have to keep trying things until you find something that works. One thing that may give a clue as to what is right for you is your other symptoms -- are you depressed, nervous, hyperactive, etc.?
Xanax helps me; it's better than any other benzo for this in that it stops the ruminative, involuntary thoughts without clouding my thinking, making it hard to concentrate, or making me tired. When I tried taking Zyprexa, it made me feel tired and foggy all day (it's very long-acting}), not at all clear.
-elizabeth
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