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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 5:00:24
Someone mentioned a book on meds and drugs in general (the definitive guide or something) that sounded interesting, but I can't find the post in the archives. Does anyone have any book recommendations (for a dummy, something even *I* can understand) on psych meds and drugs (marijuana etc.) and brain chemicals behavior?
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 3, 2001, at 8:47:58
In reply to Book Recommendation?, posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 5:00:24
> Someone mentioned a book on meds and drugs in general (the definitive guide or something) that sounded interesting, but I can't find the post in the archives. Does anyone have any book recommendations (for a dummy, something even *I* can understand) on psych meds and drugs (marijuana etc.) and brain chemicals behavior?
Posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2001, at 9:56:55
In reply to Book Recommendation?, posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 5:00:24
MM - I have found a good, but very detailed and intensive, source for the type of information that you are looking for, and is online (and free), called "Psychopharmacology - The Fourth Generation of Progress". It is also constantly being updated.
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2001, at 12:08:34
In reply to Book Recommendation?, posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 5:00:24
> Someone mentioned a book on meds and drugs in general (the definitive guide or something) that sounded interesting, but I can't find the post in the archives.
FYI, in case you haven't checked out the "Books" link at the top of the main page, I try to collect recommendations by Babblelanders, see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/books/babble.html
If I've missed any, just let me know, and I'll add them...
Bob
PS: BTW, ordering a book from that page "earns" me a referral fee, at no extra cost to you. :-)
Posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 13:14:30
In reply to Re: Babble Books, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2001, at 12:08:34
> > Someone mentioned a book on meds and drugs in general (the definitive guide or something) that sounded interesting, but I can't find the post in the archives.
>
> FYI, in case you haven't checked out the "Books" link at the top of the main page, I try to collect recommendations by Babblelanders, see:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/books/babble.html
>
> If I've missed any, just let me know, and I'll add them...
>
> Bob
>
> PS: BTW, ordering a book from that page "earns" me a referral fee, at no extra cost to you. :-)
Posted by JohnL on August 3, 2001, at 18:24:12
In reply to Book Recommendation?, posted by MM on August 3, 2001, at 5:00:24
> Someone mentioned a book on meds and drugs in general (the definitive guide or something) that sounded interesting, but I can't find the post in the archives. Does anyone have any book recommendations (for a dummy, something even *I* can understand) on psych meds and drugs (marijuana etc.) and brain chemicals behavior?
There is a really good book called "The Successful Treatment of Brain Chemical Imbalance", by Dr Martin Jensen.
His teachings are quite unique and different, but easy for a layman to read and understand. Be forewarned though, at first it seems like a radical departure from conventional psychiatry. But the more and more you read it, the more and more you realize it is just an extension of existing conventional psychiatry. His techniques and conventional psychiatry marry together very well. But like I said, at first it seems radical. After you are done reading, you realize it is not radical at all. It actually blends with current psychiatry like peanut butter and jam. It's only around $30 or $40, and is the best of many psychiatric books I've ever read.
John
Posted by Zo on August 3, 2001, at 23:07:06
In reply to Re: Book Recommendation?, posted by JohnL on August 3, 2001, at 18:24:12
John, Can you say more about the radical ideas?
Thx,
Zo> His teachings are quite unique and different, but easy for a layman to read and understand. Be forewarned though, at first it seems like a radical departure from conventional psychiatry. But the more and more you read it, the more and more you realize it is just an extension of existing conventional psychiatry. His techniques and conventional psychiatry marry together very well. But like I said, at first it seems radical. After you are done reading, you realize it is not radical at all. It actually blends with current psychiatry like peanut butter and jam. It's only around $30 or $40, and is the best of many psychiatric books I've ever read.
> John
Posted by JohnL on August 4, 2001, at 5:34:35
In reply to Re: Book Recommendation? » JohnL, posted by Zo on August 3, 2001, at 23:07:06
> John, Can you say more about the radical ideas?
Ok, sure. Be forewarned, it is radical, and every time I discuss it at this board it is met with opposition and debate. Only those who have actually read the book understand that it actually goes with conventional psychiatry, not against. Going just on what I can describe in a post like this though, it is hard to comprehend. The book explains it very well in layman terms, but I don't do so well in trying to explain it. The result is lots of skepticism, opposition, and debate. One must read the book to judge the issue fairly.
First of all, the assumption is that all psychiatric symptoms are caused by chemical imbalances. Chemical imbalances can be too much of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine; or too little of one. We usually tend to think only in terms of chemical deficiencies, but chemical excesses are just as bad. That's why it's called chemical imbalance. There must be a proper balance, which varies from person to person since we all have unique genes, unique chemistry, unique molecular binding, unique circumstances and personality. Sometimes it is not an issue of too much or too little, but rather an issue of instability. Chemical balances are instable and fluctuating too much.
The next assumption is that the closer a drug is to targeting the true undleryling chemical problem, the quicker it will work and the fewer the side effects. The farther away a drug is from targeting the real problem, the longer it will take to work, if it ever works at all, and the more side effects and higher doses are needed. The wrong drugs can indeed work, but they do so through a series of domino chain reactions which take time and affect chemistries not related to the symptoms.
With Dr Jensen's approach, he has patients try three drugs from a category, such as three different SSRIs, for only 5 days each, with a one day washout inbetween. In that 5 days we are looking for clues. One of those three drugs could prove to be the right one. The right one will provide clues such as: A hint of a good response within just 5 days, lack of intolerable side effects. In Jensen's approach, he is looking not just for a drug that will work, but a drug that will work quickly. That indicates a superior match for the patient. The strategy is to find superior drug matches for each patient. The whole idea, and this is where debate arises, is not to get well in 5 days, but rather to identify superior drugs and weed out inferior ones. Then longer trials can be given to the superior ones. No sense wasting 6 weeks on the inferior ones. If a drug shows a hint of promise in just 5 days, it is worthy of giving a longer trial and is given priority over other drugs that didn't do anything in 5 days.
So basically the whole approach is one of priority setting. Since there are so many drugs to choose from, we want to identify just the most promising ones and give them first priority for longer trials.
Jensen's approach was built on years of observations that indeed patients do experience good responses in a short time, the phenomenon really does exist, and there is also plenty of evidence at this board and in clinical trials that this is true. A few months ago I set out to find clinical studies that showed patients who responded remarkably well within one week, and I found so many studies showing this I couldn't list them all!
So, that is a very rough interpretation of his book. Like I said, the only way to legitimately agree with it or disagree with it is to read it. Without reading it, neither agreement or disagreement can legitimately be done.
JohnI personally modified his approach by lengthening the sample period to 2 or 3 weeks instead of 5 days. It's a compromise between his approach and conventional psychiatry.
>
> Thx,
> Zo
>
> > His teachings are quite unique and different, but easy for a layman to read and understand. Be forewarned though, at first it seems like a radical departure from conventional psychiatry. But the more and more you read it, the more and more you realize it is just an extension of existing conventional psychiatry. His techniques and conventional psychiatry marry together very well. But like I said, at first it seems radical. After you are done reading, you realize it is not radical at all. It actually blends with current psychiatry like peanut butter and jam. It's only around $30 or $40, and is the best of many psychiatric books I've ever read.
> > John
Posted by grapebubblegum on August 4, 2001, at 10:53:23
In reply to Re: Book Recommendation?, posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2001, at 9:56:55
Thanks for that book recommendation, Cam. I have bookmarked it and it looks like it has tons of interesting reading in it.
Posted by Simcha on August 4, 2001, at 14:49:06
In reply to Re: Book Recommendation?, posted by JohnL on August 4, 2001, at 5:34:35
OK,
I'd like to recommend this book. Perhaps Dr. Bob could add it to the member's recommendations section??
This book is called, "I Can See Tomorrow: A Guide for Living with Depression." It's by Patricia L. Owen, Ph.D. with a forward by Bert Pepper, M.D. It is put out by Hazelden and as such it is designed to help those of us who are recovering addicts who are in 12-step programs.
I've found it very useful. Often there is a sense of shame I have about being depressed and in recovery. The others in my group try to tell me, "If only you would go to more meetings and call more people you would not be depressed." This book helped me to realize that my depression was a separate illness from my addiction and that there was separate treatment that I needed to get better.
Once the doctor decided that medication was something that I should consider the book helped me to deal with the resistence I had as a 12-stepper. In our groups so many people are prejudiced against meds because many of us medicated with illegal drugs for so long. The book helped me to realize that like a diabetic needs insulin, I need my medication for my very medical problem.
This book was a light in the darkness for me and it helped me to understand my illness in the light of 12-step spirituality. This book may not be for everyone but for those of us who suffer from addiction and depression it is a G-d send!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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