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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daveman on August 1, 2001, at 0:01:55
Okay, I know this has been discussed here before but I cannot narrow my search enough to find the thread:) The question is: What effect do the benzos have on sleep stages? I know that my pdoc prefers Ambien to benzos for PRN sleep use because, according to him, it does not interfere with sleep stages as the benzos do. Anybody out there who can point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this issue? Thanks.
Dave
Posted by terra miller on August 1, 2001, at 0:10:28
In reply to Benzos and sleep stages, posted by Daveman on August 1, 2001, at 0:01:55
> Okay, I know this has been discussed here before but I cannot narrow my search enough to find the thread:) The question is: What effect do the benzos have on sleep stages? I know that my pdoc prefers Ambien to benzos for PRN sleep use because, according to him, it does not interfere with sleep stages as the benzos do. Anybody out there who can point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this issue? Thanks.
hmmmmm. can't point you to the articles. i can speak from experience for whatever that is worth (and thinking an "ambien" might be good about now for me tonight????? *smile*).) i am taking wellbutrin as my main (and currently only) med. i have, in the near past, taken ambien for sleep and ativan. i found ambien to be more sedating. i found ativan to be less sedating, more "drowsy" in feeling. i found, though, that ativan taken at bedtime let me drift off to sleep and stay asleep. taking ambien at bedtime allowed me to fall off to sleep in 10mins., but i woke up 3-4 hours later.i don't know what that means according to the question that you posed. ambien was helpful, but i "always" woke up from it. the opposite was true with the ativan. with the ativan i seemed to return fairly quickly to "normal" sleep cycles during that night.
does that help?
-terra
>
> Dave
Posted by Mitch on August 1, 2001, at 9:00:44
In reply to Benzos and sleep stages, posted by Daveman on August 1, 2001, at 0:01:55
> Okay, I know this has been discussed here before but I cannot narrow my search enough to find the thread:) The question is: What effect do the benzos have on sleep stages? I know that my pdoc prefers Ambien to benzos for PRN sleep use because, according to him, it does not interfere with sleep stages as the benzos do. Anybody out there who can point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this issue? Thanks.
>
> Dave
Daveman,Generally they can supress REM sleep to some degree from what I have heard. When they are discontinued people can have "rebound" excessive dreaming. I haven't tried Ambien, but I have tried Sonata (which is also touted as not "interfering" with sleep stages). Well, I had similar problems that terra had-it puts you to sleep in a heartbeat, but you are awake again in the middle of the nite (BTW-also had "rebound" anxiety during the daytime that seemed to worsen my mood cycling).
I think they are trying to make a sleeper for people that primarily have trouble getting to sleep not early-morning awakenings, if your trouble is *staying* asleep it may not be the best choice. Serzone is supposed to not interfere with REM sleep and it helps some folks sleep better. I personally don't like to get stuck taking hypnotic-sedatives for sleep, it seems that I always have a rough time stopping the things-and they are prescribed "short term" anyways. If you are already taking a med that causes drowsiness you might try a bedtime dose of that if you don't already.
Mitch
Posted by terra miller on August 1, 2001, at 10:16:42
In reply to Re: Benzos and sleep stages » Daveman, posted by Mitch on August 1, 2001, at 9:00:44
yes, i was taking serzone complete dose at bedtime and that was very helpful as well... i had forgotten that. in fact, i was doing the best in the sleep department when taking serzone at bedtime. i dreamed more which was not a problem and basically seemed pretty normal in my sleep. other people like trazodone. i've read some people using remeron at night with their med. mix. the trazodone can be taken as needed, but the serzone is an every night kind of thing.
-terra
Posted by Ted on August 1, 2001, at 11:54:22
In reply to Re: Benzos and sleep stages » Daveman, posted by terra miller on August 1, 2001, at 0:10:28
> > Okay, I know this has been discussed here before but I cannot narrow my search enough to find the thread:) The question is: What effect do the benzos have on sleep stages? I know that my pdoc prefers Ambien to benzos for PRN sleep use because, according to him, it does not interfere with sleep stages as the benzos do. Anybody out there who can point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this issue? Thanks.
I'll add my two cents. First let me say I have BP and I take depakote, zoloft & wellbutrin. I use ambien regularly and have no problems at all from it. I take very small doses -- usually only 3-4 mg (by breaking tablets). It works wonders for me. There are times, however, when I can't get to sleep on 10 mg ambien, so I mix ambien with ativan (with permission from my pdoc) both in small doses. Works wonders for my sleep. The tranquilizer affect of the ativan with the sedation of the ambien is a great mix for anxiety or hypomania. I don't think occasional low doses of benzos will not be detrimental to your sleep cycles.Ted
Posted by Zo on August 1, 2001, at 18:21:37
In reply to Benzos and sleep stages, posted by Daveman on August 1, 2001, at 0:01:55
I can find the page for you if you really *want*. . .It was somewhere on a CFS site. . .
The info was clear that *every* true benzo actually diminishes Stage 4, or restorative, deep sleep.
Zo
Posted by Daveman on August 2, 2001, at 0:23:22
In reply to Re: Benzos and sleep stages » Daveman, posted by Zo on August 1, 2001, at 18:21:37
> I can find the page for you if you really *want*. . .It was somewhere on a CFS site. . .
>
> The info was clear that *every* true benzo actually diminishes Stage 4, or restorative, deep sleep.
>
> ZoZo:
That's what I remember reading. Darn, I should have bookmarked that one! I'll try to find it with a websearch.
Thanks everone for your responses.
Dave
Posted by paxvox on August 3, 2001, at 20:08:39
In reply to Re: Benzos and sleep stages » Daveman, posted by Mitch on August 1, 2001, at 9:00:44
I concur with Mitch there for the most part, but I don't think benozs really affect your sleep as in length of REM sleep, etc. Ambien and Sonata do. And they DO cause you to wake up after a few hours (wide awake for me). I took ambien for 2 years from my Gp until I went to the Pdoc. He immediately weaned me off it, poo pooing it heavily. Sonata DID potentiate panic attacks in me, but generally only during the winter months (may have been SAD related?). I did not take it for many months after that, and because of the mid-night waking. I think it would probably work better for me if I took it the first time I woke up in the night rather than before I went to bed. Both Ambien and Sonata have been getting mega-media attention on the TV as if they were a panacea for sleep disturbances. They, sadly, are not. Benzos have helped me the best, have acted the longest (in effect not sleep duration) and also have HELPED as mood stabilizers to offset my AD Wellbutrin.
This is the end of the thread.
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