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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by avoet on May 14, 2001, at 6:36:22
i have been on ad's for five years with limited sucess. sometimes i will do well and then i crash into anxiety, depression and obsessive thinking. i have never been off AD's and i have tried every single one. i just resently tried wellbutrin and when i went up to 200 mg, i got depressed and anxious again - with obsessive thinking. i decided that's it! i am going to try to see if going off AD's makes things any better. i have been off for three days and i feel good. does anyone have any experience with this. i know Judy has - any advice anyone?
Posted by loosmrbls on May 14, 2001, at 8:52:08
In reply to can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse?, posted by avoet on May 14, 2001, at 6:36:22
To be short -- yes, antidepressants can definately make bipolar II worse.
I was on them for two years with the diagnsosis of "double depression" with symptoms much like what you describe. After a hypomanic episode, I eventually went into rapid cycling with mixed states while on celexa.I personally feel bipolar II are AT LEAST as susceptible to this, if not more, than bipolar I. I say this only because the "classical" studies involving bipolar I seem to show less patients going into mania (or worsening) than my experience or what I have gathered talking to other BP II's.
I personally fear AD's very much and the only one I am willing to try if needed in the future is Remeron. Even low doses of AD's throw me for a loop, and pretty quickly.
Practitioners, however, are usually a little behind emerging data and will (like in my case) still prescribe AD's -- some at least with a mood stabilizer on board first.
I would suggest talking with others, reading web sites, and talking with your pdoc to see if you indeed may be BP II and then go from there.
Posted by Mitch on May 14, 2001, at 12:04:06
In reply to Re: can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse?, posted by loosmrbls on May 14, 2001, at 8:52:08
I have the same troubles-look at the Celexa posts up above. I need to find a way to get off AD's, because I tried it for a couple of months and the cycling did diminish-but I have social anxiety/panic too and they help that stuff! So it is a dilemma for many people.
> To be short -- yes, antidepressants can definately make bipolar II worse.
> I was on them for two years with the diagnsosis of "double depression" with symptoms much like what you describe. After a hypomanic episode, I eventually went into rapid cycling with mixed states while on celexa.
>
> I personally feel bipolar II are AT LEAST as susceptible to this, if not more, than bipolar I. I say this only because the "classical" studies involving bipolar I seem to show less patients going into mania (or worsening) than my experience or what I have gathered talking to other BP II's.
>
> I personally fear AD's very much and the only one I am willing to try if needed in the future is Remeron. Even low doses of AD's throw me for a loop, and pretty quickly.
>
> Practitioners, however, are usually a little behind emerging data and will (like in my case) still prescribe AD's -- some at least with a mood stabilizer on board first.
>
> I would suggest talking with others, reading web sites, and talking with your pdoc to see if you indeed may be BP II and then go from there.
Posted by SalArmy4me on May 14, 2001, at 12:15:04
In reply to Re: can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse?, posted by loosmrbls on May 14, 2001, at 8:52:08
Mania has rarely been reported on Remeron. "Switching" to hypomania or mania occurred in only 0.25% of bipolar patients taking Remeron:
Montgomery SA. Safety of mirtazapine: a review. Int Clin Psychopharmacol. 1995; 10(suppl 4):37-45.
Posted by judy1 on May 14, 2001, at 16:38:04
In reply to Re: can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse?, posted by Mitch on May 14, 2001, at 12:04:06
Mitch,
You might want to up the klonopin a little while you get off your celexa- not to the point of sedation of course. I take 6mg/day of klonopin and xanax prn, not too unusual in panic disorder and suspicion of TLE. Take care, judy
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2001, at 21:34:21
In reply to Re: can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse? » Mitch, posted by judy1 on May 14, 2001, at 16:38:04
> Mitch,
> You might want to up the klonopin a little while you get off your celexa- not to the point of sedation of course. I take 6mg/day of klonopin and xanax prn, not too unusual in panic disorder and suspicion of TLE. Take care, judyGood thinking. I was just about to post a suggestion to try Neurontin.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Mitch on May 14, 2001, at 23:42:09
In reply to Re: can AD's really make Bipolar II/cycling worse? » Mitch, posted by judy1 on May 14, 2001, at 16:38:04
Judy1, I just got back from seeing my pdoc and I got 300mg of Lithium added to my 300mg Neurontin and 1.0-1.5mg of Klonopin. We are going to see if I can "back off* the Celexa after I have been on the lowdose Lithium for awhile. It has worked before for major depression (as monotheraphy-600mg/day!)
I just took the first tab of Li about two hours ago and I feel like I am going to sleep ok tonite.
The TLE thing may be just a pseudo-syndrome brought on by antidepressant use as far as I know.
Thanks for your concern. Oh, by the way, have you heard anything about Clobazam? It is indicated for partial seizures (and just as good for panic) and less sedating than Klonopin. I am going to do some research on it.
Thanks again,
Mitch
> Mitch,
> You might want to up the klonopin a little while you get off your celexa- not to the point of sedation of course. I take 6mg/day of klonopin and xanax prn, not too unusual in panic disorder and suspicion of TLE. Take care, judy
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