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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 2 of 2. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jwill on January 29, 2001, at 11:23:28
I have been on Prozac; and many other antidepressants,
at various times, etc., until the best formula was found
for me, over a period of 9 years. I've had problems with
alcohol and caffiene abuse, but my current regimen of
Prozac, Klonipin and Ritalin has made me much more
functional and far less depressed than I'd been for the
majority of my life, before using anti-depressants. I
am very glad that I no longer drink alcohol or coffee,
both of which cause me tremendous detriment, and led to
total nervous breakdown long ago. Hence, I concur with
the obvious wisdom that it's a lot better to use
psychopharmaceuticals like Prozac, or whatever, than it is
to abuse alcohol. I certainly do not advocate use of
alcohol or other "harsh" drugs to deal with depression.However (and this is the crux of my question to anyone
kind enough to share their thoughts on the matter), looking
back over the years, I cannot ignore some fundamental
conundrums and flaws with taking the sane path.Without alcohol, I'd never have met my wife (yes, we are
now divorced, but it was a wonderful marriage lasted for quite some time.)
Absent the "charge" of a few beers, I'd never have been
able to overcome my own shyness, and present myself with
sufficient charisma to have connected with her (at a bar).
But that's not all. Looking back, I see that I would never
even have ever had a girlfriend in my life if not for alcohol.
Every woman I've ever connected with has been via intoxication.Further, the woman who is now my ex-wife and I had a beautiful
baby son together. Today he is 4 years old. He lives with
his mother, my ex-wife, who is a wonderful mother, and who
is also very wealthy, and will be able to give him "the
good things" in life very easily, which I could not do.
Without alcohol, this happy, wonderful child with a bright
future to look forward to, and who is my main reason for
being, would not exist.Further, as a lawyer who is socially phobic and prone to
anxiety, I sometimes have had to drink heavily on the night
prior to arguing a case in order to "placify" (pacify my
nervousness and feel sufficiently placid) myself enough
to effectively deal with the courtroom stress and abusive
judges of our pathetic legal system. No pharmaceuticals
have been sufficiently immediate and/or powerful enough
to grant me this effect.The bottom line:
Fact: Without "abuse" of alcohol, one of my clients, a
single mother of four, would have unjustly lost her license
to be a school teacher, and been sent to jail on false accusations.Fact: Absent a buzz from three strong cups of coffee
(which affects me just about as strongly and immediately as
alcohol), I would not have been able, when the hospital
attempted to wrongly bill myself and my wife $90,000 for medical
services rendered in the birth of our son, I'd never have had
sufficient glibness to make a call directly to the H.M.O. legal
department and "delicately chew them out" with sufficient
finesse to receive the letter, which we did, which was a cc of
the H.M.O.'s emphatic directive to the Hospital never to bill
us again for such charges, which were not our liability.
$90,000 is a lot of money -- work hours -- to me. I crash
into dismal depression from using coffee for a jolt. But
I also lose months of my life if I have to earn
$90,000 to pay such extortion.I could give many other examples, but you get the idea.
Prozac, Wellbutrin, and the host of other psychopharmaceuticals
have saved my life. Over time, they alleviated the chronic
major depression which would have made me so dysfunctional,
ultimately, that I may well have seriously hurt myself or
others. But, the big problem with them is that alcohol, and
other "fast-acting" drugs conflict with, and are not
compatible with these antidepressants.In the long run, there is no question that the medications
were the most logical, and best, way to deal with my
severe chronic depression. This is, and rightly so, the
majority opinion on the issue of Prozac, et al. v. Alcohol,
Drugs & Co.But what about the miracle of a child?
What about being able to ever have a girlfriend or spouse?
What about people who would not have been able to even
obtain legal counsel at all spending time in prison for
no reason whatsoever?Psychopharmaceuticals allow me to live at least fairly
functionally, and take care of myself modestly.They are so slow to act, however, that they do not allow
me to deal with the above issues. The above issues are
no small thing, I believe.What can be done to provide the "immediate" quick fix that
psychopharmaceuticals cannot give, but which is necessary
to allow for some of the things mentioned above?I think this is a very big question.
Posted by sooz on January 30, 2001, at 17:39:57
In reply to Prozac v. Alcohol; Q's from dissenting opinion, posted by Jwill on January 29, 2001, at 11:23:28
I get that conundrum; I live it too.
Alcohol and other drugs have helped me "cope" with countless situations in my life, including therapy. I don't have answers for you, just sympathy. I was lucky enough to meet my partner when I was on an antidepressant. That means that I wasn't high or drunk when I met her and those complications didn't interfere with our relationshop. I still drink, and often alone, but the relationship isn't based on an alcoholic dependency... lucky for me.
I am currently on a combination of Effexor and Prozac; one for ADHD and one for depression. It works pretty well most of the time but I still go early to my weekly therapy appointments so I can get a beer or two before I have to talk. I'm pretty introverted about my feelings and I find that alcohol helps "lubricate" my ability to communicate. It places me in an altered universe where I can't think about the whole picture, I have to narrow things down to just a few topics. Ritalin doesn't work for me becasue of my addictive, driven and abusive personality.
I'm still drinking, but I'm far less depressed than I've ever been before. Less depressed and actually happy. That's a big turn around for me.
Good luck to you,
Sooz> I have been on Prozac; and many other antidepressants,
> at various times, etc., until the best formula was found
> for me, over a period of 9 years. I've had problems with
> alcohol and caffiene abuse, but my current regimen of
> Prozac, Klonipin and Ritalin has made me much more
> functional and far less depressed than I'd been for the
> majority of my life, before using anti-depressants. I
> am very glad that I no longer drink alcohol or coffee,
> both of which cause me tremendous detriment, and led to
> total nervous breakdown long ago. Hence, I concur with
> the obvious wisdom that it's a lot better to use
> psychopharmaceuticals like Prozac, or whatever, than it is
> to abuse alcohol. I certainly do not advocate use of
> alcohol or other "harsh" drugs to deal with depression.
>
> However (and this is the crux of my question to anyone
> kind enough to share their thoughts on the matter), looking
> back over the years, I cannot ignore some fundamental
> conundrums and flaws with taking the sane path.
>
> Without alcohol, I'd never have met my wife (yes, we are
> now divorced, but it was a wonderful marriage lasted for quite some time.)
> Absent the "charge" of a few beers, I'd never have been
> able to overcome my own shyness, and present myself with
> sufficient charisma to have connected with her (at a bar).
> But that's not all. Looking back, I see that I would never
> even have ever had a girlfriend in my life if not for alcohol.
> Every woman I've ever connected with has been via intoxication.
>
> Further, the woman who is now my ex-wife and I had a beautiful
> baby son together. Today he is 4 years old. He lives with
> his mother, my ex-wife, who is a wonderful mother, and who
> is also very wealthy, and will be able to give him "the
> good things" in life very easily, which I could not do.
> Without alcohol, this happy, wonderful child with a bright
> future to look forward to, and who is my main reason for
> being, would not exist.
>
> Further, as a lawyer who is socially phobic and prone to
> anxiety, I sometimes have had to drink heavily on the night
> prior to arguing a case in order to "placify" (pacify my
> nervousness and feel sufficiently placid) myself enough
> to effectively deal with the courtroom stress and abusive
> judges of our pathetic legal system. No pharmaceuticals
> have been sufficiently immediate and/or powerful enough
> to grant me this effect.
>
> The bottom line:
>
> Fact: Without "abuse" of alcohol, one of my clients, a
> single mother of four, would have unjustly lost her license
> to be a school teacher, and been sent to jail on false accusations.
>
> Fact: Absent a buzz from three strong cups of coffee
> (which affects me just about as strongly and immediately as
> alcohol), I would not have been able, when the hospital
> attempted to wrongly bill myself and my wife $90,000 for medical
> services rendered in the birth of our son, I'd never have had
> sufficient glibness to make a call directly to the H.M.O. legal
> department and "delicately chew them out" with sufficient
> finesse to receive the letter, which we did, which was a cc of
> the H.M.O.'s emphatic directive to the Hospital never to bill
> us again for such charges, which were not our liability.
> $90,000 is a lot of money -- work hours -- to me. I crash
> into dismal depression from using coffee for a jolt. But
> I also lose months of my life if I have to earn
> $90,000 to pay such extortion.
>
> I could give many other examples, but you get the idea.
> Prozac, Wellbutrin, and the host of other psychopharmaceuticals
> have saved my life. Over time, they alleviated the chronic
> major depression which would have made me so dysfunctional,
> ultimately, that I may well have seriously hurt myself or
> others. But, the big problem with them is that alcohol, and
> other "fast-acting" drugs conflict with, and are not
> compatible with these antidepressants.
>
> In the long run, there is no question that the medications
> were the most logical, and best, way to deal with my
> severe chronic depression. This is, and rightly so, the
> majority opinion on the issue of Prozac, et al. v. Alcohol,
> Drugs & Co.
>
> But what about the miracle of a child?
> What about being able to ever have a girlfriend or spouse?
> What about people who would not have been able to even
> obtain legal counsel at all spending time in prison for
> no reason whatsoever?
>
> Psychopharmaceuticals allow me to live at least fairly
> functionally, and take care of myself modestly.
>
> They are so slow to act, however, that they do not allow
> me to deal with the above issues. The above issues are
> no small thing, I believe.
>
> What can be done to provide the "immediate" quick fix that
> psychopharmaceuticals cannot give, but which is necessary
> to allow for some of the things mentioned above?
>
> I think this is a very big question.
This is the end of the thread.
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