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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
i desperately need advice. one of my dearest friends i fear is on a road to self-destruction. here's a little history...she has been previously diagnosed as manic depressive, shortly after her father committed suicide about 15 years ago(he was also manic depressive). she and i have been friends for 5 years now and i quickly see her spiraling down. she briefly went to a psychiatrist 2-3 years ago who prescribed her prozac...she gave that up after a couple of weeks, because she was more afraid of what everyone would think of her. we live in separate cities, so i'm not around to see her behavior most of the time. from our phone conversations, i have encouraged her to see a doctor again on numerous occasions. it wasn't until about 2 months ago that she told me that she was seeing a counselor once a week and felt like it would work out. i'm assuming that she's given that up as well. anyway, she has developed a drinking problem here recently and it is of course adding to her problems. i've talked until i'm blue in the face, but it doesn't help. she never acts depressed or sad and i have never seen her break down and cry or even "seriously" discuss with me anything.
just last night, i had come in town to visit her, and we went to dinner. she blatantly told me that she had recently cut her arms and beat her head after something had happened. my jaw dropped. why on earth would she tell me this when i am the person always on her butt to stop her behavior and get help???? i thought she was just telling me that for attention until i confirmed the story with another one of her close friends that lives in the same town. she showed her what she had done to herself. i'm not sure if this is characteristic in self-injury to tell people like it is nothing.
I don't know what to do. she will not seek help on her own and none of her family is aware of how bad things are.
i have to do something, i can not standby and watch her do this, she is a single mother of 1, and has a great job. how she manages to keep herself together is beyond me. i feel like there will come a time that she will break down or explode.
i want to confront her but am afraid of triggering something. my first inclination is to talk to her and try to get her to be serious and realize what she is doing. it's all a joke to her-the cutting-the drinking-the drinking and driving-the denial. if i can't get her to do this the only thing i can think to do is threaten her. meaning, i plan to let her mother, who is a nurse, know what her daughter is doing.
how wrong is this of me? i am willing to temporarily lose this friendship as long as it gets her the help she needs.
WHAT CAN I DO??? of the 2 of us that are aware of her problems, i am the only one prepared to do anything about it...but i want to do it the right way.
ANY ADVICE IS MUCH APPRECIATED! I NEED TO DO THIS QUICK.
thanks
Posted by coral on November 6, 2000, at 10:42:19
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
Dear Lala,
My advice is that you contact her mother immediately. Recognizing that each person has a right to make decisions for his/her own life, and you may well be jeopardizing the friendship, I'm sensing that your friend told you as a masked cry for help. What you're describing and sensing could very well be on the mark.
I can so appreciate the sense of futility you feel and the need to do something. Just last week, the husband of a very dear friend called, hysterical, because she'd just taken every pill in the medicine cabinet. I'm 1,000 miles away and told him to call 911. He gave in to her protests not to call 911 and she began forcing herself to throw up. She survived this episode but when she called me a few days later, profusely apologizing, I got her to agree to see a doctor. Now the question is whether she'll follow through.
God be with you,
Coral
Posted by dark sally on November 6, 2000, at 12:42:41
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
hi lala
i wanted to give you a mini suggestion in regards
to your friend, who i feel is reaching out to you
and would benefit from your help.self destructive behavior is rarely suicidal and
only temporarily soothing. unlike her, i am not
manic depressive, however i am a cutter and burner.
i do not think that her behavior makes her any less
qualified as a mother or person. however, it may
be a good idea to tell her mother, who may be able
to persuade her to find a therapist who has dealt
with this issue. many self destructive persons have
been turned away from disgusted therapists and i
wonder if your friend is fearful of this rejection.there are self help books for cutters, but i really
think your non-judgmental non-condescending support
would be most appreciated. because she told you
about her cuts, she probably trusts you, and the
worst reaction in my experience is someone turning
away from you.also, you may want to read a book on cutting so you
can understand more where she is coming from.i very much value your concern and love for your
friend, but don't panic. this is rarely a life-
threatening issue.
Posted by judy1 on November 6, 2000, at 15:32:35
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
Dear Lala,
Wow, it's like you're writing about me. I'm also bipolar, lost my bipolar father to suicide and also cut. Try posting on the other page (social babble), everyone was a huge help to me last week when I was self-injuring. The added problem here is the bipolar disorder, if she is drinking- I've learned the hard way that it really makes depression worse and also affects the SI. If she just had prozac prescribed (without a mood stabilizer) that really could of messed her up also. I think she is really fortunate to have a friend like you, and you should do everything in your power to help her get treatment. If she doesn't have a regular psychiatrist, maybe you could accompany her to a mental health clinic. And yes, I think in this case if you know her Mom, I'm sure she would want to help- anything to prevent a repeat of what happened to her husband. I know the place she is in, it is a horrible place and she is reaching out. While SI is not life threatening, if you mix it with alcohol and bipolar disorder it very much is. Maybe you can get her to post, it really helped me, especially knowing I wasn't alone with my illness and I wasn't the disgusting being I felt I was. Take care, Judy
Posted by S. Howard on November 6, 2000, at 19:05:23
In reply to Re: self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by judy1 on November 6, 2000, at 15:32:35
I would also tell her mother. First because the mother is a nurse, so she's less likely to "freak out" about her daughter's self-destructiveness - even if she's not familiar with cutting, surely she has some experience with people who harm themselves intentionally.Second, even if your friend doesn't MEAN to kill herself, at the very least she is a real danger to herself and others if she drives drunk. Even worse, she might have her child in the car with her. You may lose her as a friend by "telling" on her but you may also save a few lives by doing so.
This is just my opinion, but I think if your friend didn't want help, she wouldn't tell you about the destructive things she does. -SGH
Posted by stjames on November 6, 2000, at 20:10:47
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
James here.....
Keep these points in mind....
1) She can't just stop these behaviors, the problems are far beyond behaviors one has any
control over.2) This problem is far beyond what a good friend
can help with. You said you have talked till you are blue in the face and this had no effect. Understand that clearly this is not working and stop wasting your time on this front because it does not work and has a negative effect on you.
This person "sounds like" she is in a manic phase
which means she does not see that anything is wrong and will not as long as she is manic, no matter what.3) The cutting tends to indicate past abuse, ect. Something big. There many be 2 issues here, Bi polar and big time past issues.
What to do ? Hmmm.... tell the family in graphic terms and hold nothing back. If she endangers her life you can call the police. Keep in mind this tends to mean taking one's life and not cutting, in general. Why did she tell you about the cutting ? Deep down she is hurting and wants someone to know, even though on the surface she wants no help. I had a friend tell me how good he was doing with at the same time pulling back his shirt to show me the cutting. If she is in school you could contact the schools mental health services, also.
You do not have to bear this alone, envolve the family. Don't expect her to be happy about this, at all.
james
Posted by shar on November 7, 2000, at 20:56:03
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
If you are willing to take action, act. Do not threaten to tell her family. Tell her family, now. She has a child who is also experiencing this episode. If your friend gets help, depending on what type, she will need to have someone care for her child. Will her family do that?
As other posters have indicated, she is unlikely to stop on her own, and unlikely to appreciate anything you do on her behalf right now.
At the very least, her child does not need to be having this experience.
Shar
> i desperately need advice. one of my dearest friends i fear is on a road to self-destruction. here's a little history...she has been previously diagnosed as manic depressive, shortly after her father committed suicide about 15 years ago(he was also manic depressive). she and i have been friends for 5 years now and i quickly see her spiraling down. she briefly went to a psychiatrist 2-3 years ago who prescribed her prozac...she gave that up after a couple of weeks, because she was more afraid of what everyone would think of her. we live in separate cities, so i'm not around to see her behavior most of the time. from our phone conversations, i have encouraged her to see a doctor again on numerous occasions. it wasn't until about 2 months ago that she told me that she was seeing a counselor once a week and felt like it would work out. i'm assuming that she's given that up as well. anyway, she has developed a drinking problem here recently and it is of course adding to her problems. i've talked until i'm blue in the face, but it doesn't help. she never acts depressed or sad and i have never seen her break down and cry or even "seriously" discuss with me anything.
>
> just last night, i had come in town to visit her, and we went to dinner. she blatantly told me that she had recently cut her arms and beat her head after something had happened. my jaw dropped. why on earth would she tell me this when i am the person always on her butt to stop her behavior and get help???? i thought she was just telling me that for attention until i confirmed the story with another one of her close friends that lives in the same town. she showed her what she had done to herself. i'm not sure if this is characteristic in self-injury to tell people like it is nothing.
>
> I don't know what to do. she will not seek help on her own and none of her family is aware of how bad things are.
>
> i have to do something, i can not standby and watch her do this, she is a single mother of 1, and has a great job. how she manages to keep herself together is beyond me. i feel like there will come a time that she will break down or explode.
>
> i want to confront her but am afraid of triggering something. my first inclination is to talk to her and try to get her to be serious and realize what she is doing. it's all a joke to her-the cutting-the drinking-the drinking and driving-the denial. if i can't get her to do this the only thing i can think to do is threaten her. meaning, i plan to let her mother, who is a nurse, know what her daughter is doing.
>
> how wrong is this of me? i am willing to temporarily lose this friendship as long as it gets her the help she needs.
>
> WHAT CAN I DO??? of the 2 of us that are aware of her problems, i am the only one prepared to do anything about it...but i want to do it the right way.
>
> ANY ADVICE IS MUCH APPRECIATED! I NEED TO DO THIS QUICK.
>
> thanks
Posted by pullmarine on November 9, 2000, at 22:26:50
In reply to self-destructive friend--NEED HELP!!, posted by lala on November 6, 2000, at 9:13:17
1. If you decide to help her, make sure you are going for counselling with someoene who has a strong background in suicide prevention.
2 Read up about the Do's and Dont's of suicide prevention.
3. Get ready for a tough battle.
one of my dearest friends i fear is on a road to self-destruction.4. Sometimes, there nothing that can be done. Such is life.
she briefly went to a psychiatrist 2-3 years ago who prescribed her prozac...she gave that up after a couple of weeks,
5. That's her right!!!!!!!
we live in separate cities, so i'm not around to see her behavior most of the time.6. Make regular appointments in times of crises.
anyway, she has developed a drinking problem here recently and it is of course adding to her problems.
7. Don't judge, don't pressure!
i've talked until i'm blue in the face,
8. Do not talk!!!!
DO not offer advice!!!!
Do ask questions!!!
Be direct.!!!
and LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN to her say what's on her mind!!!!!!!! She will probably repeat certain things again and again till it's out of her system!talking to her doesn't help.
9. Of course not. these types of problems are like grieving. If you were grieving the loss of a son or a lover. would you want someone to give you advice and talk at you? or would you prefer have someone listen to you or be with you in silence?
she blatantly told me that she had recently cut her arms and beat her head . i'm not sure if this is characteristic in self-injury to tell people like it is nothing.
10. Yes. this is normal, but it's a serious warning sign!!!!It is characteristic of suicidal people to give warning signs. This is usually beyongd their control. Please read up on suicide and warning signals.
>
> I don't know what to do. she will not seek help on her own and none of her family is aware of how bad things are.11. Listen to her. make regular appointments. If her mood improves suddendly (overnight) CALL FOR HELP IMMEDIATLY!!!!! >
i want to confront her but am afraid of triggering something.
12. DON"T BE AFRAID!!!!! ASK HER VERY DIRECTLY IF SHE IS CONSIDERING SUICIDE.
my first inclination is to talk to her
12. DO NOT TALK!!! LISTEN!!!!
and try to get her to be serious and realize what she is doing.
LISTEN TO HER!!!!!
it's all a joke to her-the cutting-the drinking-the drinking and driving-the denial.
LET HER DRINK IF SHE NEEDS TO!!!!
if i can't get her to do this the only thing i can think to do is threaten her. meaning, i plan to let her mother, who is a nurse, know what her daughter is doing.
Finally a good idea!!!!
>
> how wrong is this of me?QUITE JUSTIFIED!!!
i am willing to temporarily lose this friendship as long as it gets her the help she needs.
You won't lose her friendship!!!
Much courage,john
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