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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by julesvox on July 14, 2000, at 18:24:50
wondering if anyone out there has advice or stories to share about what's eating me up in a major way. i believe i fell in love with my first therapist...our intense and vital work ended prematurely because i had to move away but we've been in touch intermittently and i've been able to see her a couple times this summer. realizing that what's the most painful is not necessarily my feelings for her (abt which i still have a lot of shame and fear) but saying goodbye, which i haven't been able or willing to do. at the same time it feels (and i believe she feels) our connection is real. not that we'll be lovers--i trust her to stick to her therapist role--but that there IS a connection that is not just about transference/countertransference. shouldn't we honor those connections in this world?
i'm really confused about what the 'right' thing to do is for me. i thought i wanted closure, i wish i did, but i really don't. the thought of not having her in my life is incredibly painful (even though we haven't been in contact, there's always been the possibility). in a couple of weeks i cross the country again and i fear without something at least symbolic i'll keep hanging on to her memory and it will continue to hold back my other therapy. i don't think it's an issue of needing to say something--i feel i was able to express myself to her and tell her (nearly) everything i think and feel. burning my letters to her, making some gift for her, etc., doesn't feel quite right. she is comfortable with me contacting her sometime in the future...she's focused on this being about my process and helping me do what i need and if that's saying goodbye...i've wished she would just tell me never to call her again to make it easier.
anyone have a similar tale? any abiding relationships with therapists? this is so painful i'm crying just writing this outline of the situation. there's so much more but i'll stop here.
Posted by PattyG on July 14, 2000, at 18:46:08
In reply to transference or...?, posted by julesvox on July 14, 2000, at 18:24:50
Wow. I can really feel your pain and wish I truly had something overly insightful to say to you that would help. I don't think I do. I'm sure there will be others who have had similar experiences and they will offer some guidance.
My first thought was that considering you're moving away and won't be her patient anymore, why can't you (at some point) reveal your feelings for her? No "law" against that, right? I suspect, however, if you were to do that right away, she would feel obligated to honor her professional ethics and not respond, regardless of how she might feel. Do you think she has some feelings for you on a personal level? Is this the first female with whom you've been able to share your inner-most thoughts and feelings? I wonder if sometimes folks confuse the relief they feel from "free expression" with "love." Perhaps?
At any rate, sorry you're suffering now and wish I could help. I suppose as with many things in life, time will tell. Also, I see nothing wrong with giving her some kind of gift as a token of your friendship and appreciation.
PattyG
Posted by shar on July 14, 2000, at 23:46:28
In reply to Re: transference or...?, posted by PattyG on July 14, 2000, at 18:46:08
I had a therapist who moved away. It was someone I'd been seeing for a long time, and had had joint sessions with her, me and my son. Also was in a group with her.
Our relationship was "professional" but also very nurturing. It's one of the few places I'd ever had anyone honor my feelings or encourage me to love myself.
Her leaving was a time of intense grief for me because I loved her as a person who had been a part of my life for a long, long time. And, with whom I had an intimate AND professional relationship (intimate as in my deep dark shameful thoughts).
My last visit with her was her holding my hands as I wept and wept and wept. I get very attached to people.
When she left we did exchange Christmas cards for a few years. Then I started seeing her former partner (about two or so years later). Now, when my current therapist goes to visit my former therapist I always ask her to remember me to X, and send my fond regards.
I think a rememberence honoring your relationship that you had with your therapist is fine, but if it is more than that (or if you expect more from the relationship) I'd recommend either saying so or holding off until you are really sure what you want to do.
Best wishes. I hope that you find a way to have a safe farewell (which you probably need to do for the therapy part of the relationship anyway). And if you contact her in the future, that you'll be guided by clarity.
Shar
Posted by allisonm on July 15, 2000, at 10:23:21
In reply to Re: transference or...?, posted by shar on July 14, 2000, at 23:46:28
julesvox,
CindyW turned me onto a book a couple of months ago called "In Session: The relationship between women and their therapists" by Deborah Lott.
It has large sections devoted to the subject of transference and countertransference. Mostly, it urges the patient to talk about their feelings with their therapist because that is an important part of the therapy. But it also has some good common-sense things that I hadn't thought about before that helped me get past some fantasies about my own therapist.
Lott says there is a difference between a patient having a crush or strong feelings toward a therapist and the patient having an agenda "to get" the therapist. Fond feelings are normal, because the relationship by necessity has to be close. But if you search yourself and find you have more of an agenda to try to win over your therapist, it's something that needs to be dealt with, talked about. Or that's the gist, I think.
That said, I haven't had the nerve to talk with my own therapist about my transference.
Take care.
Allison
Posted by shellie on July 15, 2000, at 11:20:05
In reply to transference or...?, posted by julesvox on July 14, 2000, at 18:24:50
Jules, I always have transference for every therapist I go to. Mostly they have been all women, so I know it hasn't been about sexuality for me. And it didn't feel much different with my one male therapist.
I have seen that over the years when I change therapists, I also transfer the transference, so it is very clear to be that it is not about the particular person, but about having someone care about me, listen to me (afterall, we get total attention during our sessions). It has also caused me some pain, because sometimes the night after I have therapy, I really miss my therapist to the point where it hurts.
And I have discussed it with my therapist, because I feel shame about it. She tells me that although a lot of me is grown up now, there are still parts of me that have not, and those are the parts that ache. I was not a nutured child. So I work some on grieving for what I did not get, although the grieving is not natural for me. And hopefully when the grieving is done, the transference will lose a lot of its intensity. I already feel some difference.
Anyway, this is for your first therapist, so it's harder to tell what's going on. But you do need to remember that therapy is one-sided in the sense of whose emotional needs are dealt with. Relationships with "real" people, are much different--they need to strive for balance, so my opinion is that it would be a very difficult if not impossible transition, even if your therapist cares a lot for you. And I agree that you need a true symbolic ending. I am still in touch with my last therapist, but the intense feelings are no longer there. And we did exchange gifts, and I like having something that she gave me, and I like that she still has a part of me.
best wishes, shellie
Posted by Sara T on July 15, 2000, at 13:36:12
In reply to transference or...?, posted by julesvox on July 14, 2000, at 18:24:50
> wondering if anyone out there has advice or stories to share about what's eating me up in a major way. i believe i fell in love with my first therapist...our intense and vital work ended prematurely because i had to move away but we've been in touch intermittently and i've been able to see her a couple times this summer. realizing that what's the most painful is not necessarily my feelings for her (abt which i still have a lot of shame and fear) but saying goodbye, which i haven't been able or willing to do. at the same time it feels (and i believe she feels) our connection is real. not that we'll be lovers--i trust her to stick to her therapist role--but that there IS a connection that is not just about transference/countertransference. shouldn't we honor those connections in this world?
>
> i'm really confused about what the 'right' thing to do is for me. i thought i wanted closure, i wish i did, but i really don't. the thought of not having her in my life is incredibly painful (even though we haven't been in contact, there's always been the possibility). in a couple of weeks i cross the country again and i fear without something at least symbolic i'll keep hanging on to her memory and it will continue to hold back my other therapy. i don't think it's an issue of needing to say something--i feel i was able to express myself to her and tell her (nearly) everything i think and feel. burning my letters to her, making some gift for her, etc., doesn't feel quite right. she is comfortable with me contacting her sometime in the future...she's focused on this being about my process and helping me do what i need and if that's saying goodbye...i've wished she would just tell me never to call her again to make it easier.
>
> anyone have a similar tale? any abiding relationships with therapists? this is so painful i'm crying just writing this outline of the situation. there's so much more but i'll stop here.Jules,
Got back a month or so in the archived threads and you will find some long threads about this subject of relationships with therapists and transferrance.
Remember, too, that your therapist cannot have a friend/lover type of relationship with you unless she wants to risk professional ethics and in some states, prosecution. That said, however, I think the links are real, they just have boundaries.
Perhaps this is something you can address with your current therapist.
Sara T.
Posted by PattyG on July 15, 2000, at 14:15:30
In reply to Re: transference or...? » julesvox, posted by Sara T on July 15, 2000, at 13:36:12
It's interesting.........all this talk of transference. Usually one reads about this being the case for Borderlines, but I'm wondering if that doesn't happen for lots of folks?
PattyG
Posted by julesvox on July 15, 2000, at 15:39:50
In reply to Re: transference or...?, posted by PattyG on July 15, 2000, at 14:15:30
thanks for all the words, everyone...allison, i'll check out that book. sara t--thanks for directing me to the threads. they've been helpful.
i want to amend my post by saying i feel like i have a pretty savvy understanding of what's going on. i've read michael kahn and lots else on transference and ethics and ill-fated reciprocal relationships btw therapist & client and i know well our relationship can and prob. should never be a reciprocal one. (when i check inside i don't 'really' want it to be; that doesn't even feel safe. i trust her to respect those boundaries herself even as i fantasize and hope she has feelings for me.)
also wanted to clarify that i haven't worked with this therapist for nearly 4 yrs and til this summer hadn't been in touch at all for 2 yrs. when we ended 4 yrs ago we had a termination session that we tried to use carefully and intentionally to gain closure. when i've seen her this summer i've felt able to tell her everything that's going on. what's tearing me apart is the feeling state i'm in and the real situation of simply not being in therapy w/her any more.
i have discussed this a lot w/my current therapist...it's up for me just about every day. shellie, your experience sounds very familiar. i do believe a lot of my love for her is about not having gotten her kind of caring & attention when i was young. i wish i could have the same feelings for my current therapist so i could work thru them w/her...i'm jealous! i also think my attachment to my first has kept me from bonding w/ my current.
i've talked with a therapist friend about how maybe we got deep into the mirroring stage and didn't have time for her to fall off her pedastal in front of me. i have some anger towards her and it sometimes feels like she abandoned me. i know she didn't; i'm the one who moved away when i graduated & left an abusive relationship; but these feelings seem like an important part of the process and i try to go into them & explore them.
as i said, i wish i wanted to say goodbye forever or goodbye forever to this stage in our journey but i don't and i can't change my feelings; i'm trying just to be fully where i am. i wish she would do it for me (say goodbye) but her generosity/availability/flexibility is making this my responsibility (and makes me feel more attached). i've tried to ride it out for 4 yrs and take the grief to the next stage but it still hurts like hell to miss her this much and i can't see much else. i've felt suicidal for the first time in many months.
maybe there's nothing i can 'do' to unstick myself but be where i'm at w/this and try to learn why it makes me feel so bad. i wish there were something i could do.
julesvox
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