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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
I've always had this problem & nothing seems to make it stop,I hit in my sleep my husband has gotting a black eye because of me,& some times the kides come in our bed in the middle of the night to sleep w/ us.My husband had to stop me from hitting my daughter( when i was asleep of course).It's becoming more & more of a problem,I don't know why i do it or how to stop it from happen anymore?My Dr. thinks it's PTSD.So should i just buy my husband body gear or get twin beds?
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 22, 2000, at 0:41:29
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
> I've always had this problem & nothing seems to make it stop,I hit in my sleep my husband has gotting a black eye because of me,& some times the kides come in our bed in the middle of the night to sleep w/ us.My husband had to stop me from hitting my daughter( when i was asleep of course).It's becoming more & more of a problem,I don't know why i do it or how to stop it from happen anymore?My Dr. thinks it's PTSD.So should i just buy my husband body gear or get twin beds?
Why does your doctor think you have PTSD? He may be right. Did he indicate that these incidents were night-terrors? Do you automatically wake up when this happens, or are you awakened only by the impact of punching something or knocking something over? Are you in a state of great fear upon awakening?
I have had similar experiences while taking certain medications. The last time this happened to me, I was taking Parnate and imipramine in combination. This side effect disappeared shortly after I discontinued Parnate. I'm guessing that Effexor and Lamictal may also be capable of this.
Is there anything to which you can attribute it becoming more of a problem recently? Medication? Stress?
I bet certain medications would help the situation. I don't have a clue as to which ones.
Someone more knowledgeable of sleep-disorders will hopefully post a reply.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Perhaps you could wear "socker-boppers". (You must be at least forty years old to understand this).
- Scott
Posted by BinaryWoman on April 22, 2000, at 10:53:35
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
My father has that. He went to a sleep clinic at a local hospital. They make you sleep there rigged to an eeg and they videotape you. No wonder he felt so tired in the morning:)). They gave him benodiazepams to suppress his REM sleep. When he took it it worked but he said it made him feel dopey in the morning. Usually he sleeps in a separate room so my mom can get some sleep but if for any reason she's not home, I give him a valium so he won't fling himself out of bed. He's needed stitches on several occasions and recently got a rotator cuff injury. Hope that helps:)
BW
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 22, 2000, at 11:45:03
In reply to Re: sleep hitting, posted by BinaryWoman on April 22, 2000, at 10:53:35
> My father has that. He went to a sleep clinic at a local hospital. They make you sleep there rigged to an eeg and they videotape you. No wonder he felt so tired in the morning:)). They gave him benodiazepams to suppress his REM sleep. When he took it it worked but he said it made him feel dopey in the morning. Usually he sleeps in a separate room so my mom can get some sleep but if for any reason she's not home, I give him a valium so he won't fling himself out of bed. He's needed stitches on several occasions and recently got a rotator cuff injury. Hope that helps:)
>
> BW
Were tricyclic antidepressants ever discussed?
- Scott
Posted by Noa on April 22, 2000, at 14:57:21
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
Kelly,
I would recommend seeing a sleep specialist. For one thing, your current meds might be contributing to the problem and that should be sorted out. Also, the hitting is not just a problem for your husband and kids. It could be seriously interrupting normal sleep cycles, which could be adding to your psychiatric problems.
For more info, try this address:
http://www.sleepnet.com/wwwboard/forum9.html
Posted by JohnL on April 23, 2000, at 2:54:50
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
> I've always had this problem & nothing seems to make it stop,I hit in my sleep my husband has gotting a black eye because of me,& some times the kides come in our bed in the middle of the night to sleep w/ us.My husband had to stop me from hitting my daughter( when i was asleep of course).It's becoming more & more of a problem,I don't know why i do it or how to stop it from happen anymore?My Dr. thinks it's PTSD.So should i just buy my husband body gear or get twin beds?
How about wearing extra-large extra-padded boxing gloves to bed? LOL :-) JohnL
Posted by BinaryWoman on April 23, 2000, at 10:51:39
In reply to Re: sleep hitting, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 22, 2000, at 11:45:03
Were tricyclic antidepressants ever discussed?
- Scott
No, my dad has Parkinsons so he had meds for that. Maybe there would be an interaction. The docs at the sleep clinic were trying to suppress REM sleep.BW
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 23, 2000, at 13:01:27
In reply to Re: sleep hitting (Scott), posted by BinaryWoman on April 23, 2000, at 10:51:39
> Were tricyclic antidepressants ever discussed?
>
> - Scott
> No, my dad has Parkinsons so he had meds for that. Maybe there would be an interaction. The docs at the sleep clinic were trying to suppress REM sleep.
>
> BWThat's one of the reasons tricyclics came to mind. They do suppress REM sleep. I don't know if there are any contraindications to their use in Parkinson's or with the use of the drugs typically chosen to treat it. I imagine Eldepryl (selegiline, l-deprenyl) has already been considered for the Parkinson's. It is usually used in combination with other antiparkinson drugs. Eldepryl significantly and dose-dependantly suppresses REM. Perhaps raising the dosage would be helpful.
If PTSD or depression (often associated with Parkinson's) is playing a role in what's going on with your father's sleep, using an antidepressants would probably be a good idea. Eldepryl seems to have demonstrated some efficacy as an antidepressant, but I don't see that it has been used successfully for PTSD. SSRIs are probably attracting more attention for treating PTSD, but certainly tricyclics have been commonly used successfully in the past. Both SSRIs and tricyclics are prescribed for depression associated with Parkinson's. SSRIs are probably chosen first because of their "favorable" side effect profile, but may occasionally exacerbate Parkinsonian symptoms. My gut tells me that tricyclics are probably more effective for PTSD, especially with regard to sleep-architecture. Just a guess. It may be important to choose a tricyclic that has minimal anticholinergic effects, so as to avoid cognitive disturbances and possible interactions with those anticholinergic drugs sometimes used to treat Parkinson's.
I don't know. But these may be things to ask the doctor about.
I still like the "socker-bopper" idea. (Look for archived T.V. commercials of the 1960's)
- Scott
Posted by boB on April 24, 2000, at 2:16:59
In reply to Re: sleep hitting (Scott), posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 23, 2000, at 13:01:27
i post some goofey messages under this psuedonym, but this one is real
I had an experience with this sleep hitting thing that was quite disturbing. But if you look up a book called Chemistry of Conscious States, the well-informed neuroscientist author confesses to some very similar experiences.
Before i briefly relate my experience, I should confide that the basic human mode of thought is confabulation. We are animals who make up our world view out of the little that we actually know. Even moment to moment visual perception is 2 percent perception and 98 percent confabulation based on our short-term recollection of what we most recently saw when we directed our gaze to that location. (Trust me - i am a highly reliable anonymous contributor to an easily accesible internet board. They wouldn't let me post this if it were not 100 percent scientifically proven fact!!!)
When i was married, long ago, before my wife realized that i was not a fit parent and that her in-laws would make the down payment and co-sign for a house if she would dump me and bring home my children for them to relive their failed child-reariing experience by buying things for my children, we lived under the same roof, and shared a bed.
One night, I was home asleep and she came home from somewhere. Well, I was dreaming that someone was burglarizing OUR house. I got up to confront the burglar, who turned out to be her. Well, that is what i learned when I woke myself up by making an agressive martial shout and preparing to strike.
What does this mean? Hell if I know! I tend to think there were subconscious drives and realizations at work. The way they played out was illogical and Carl Jung and any other therapists efforts to explain them would be based on their own sense of authority and not their complete understanding of who I am. At least not unless they want to spent about 10 very intimate and very honest years admitting the reality and truth of the motivations that shape my life. Best advice I can offer is to get twin beds, and do your marital stuff some other way. That or get really, really honest with each other about your inner motivations.
"Yeh, Right!"
Posted by Hugh on April 24, 2000, at 7:15:07
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
every so often. I stopped being a sleep hitter when I stopped Nardil.
Posted by jane on April 24, 2000, at 18:54:03
In reply to sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 21, 2000, at 23:39:10
Kelly - just a thought -
talk to a sleep center about PLMS -periodic limb movement syndrome, also look under the website on 'restless legs' for PLMS
www.RLS.org
Posted by kellyR. on April 24, 2000, at 19:43:51
In reply to Re: sleep hitting, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 22, 2000, at 0:41:29
> > I've always had this problem & nothing seems to make it stop,I hit in my sleep my husband has gotting a black eye because of me,& some times the kides come in our bed in the middle of the night to sleep w/ us.My husband had to stop me from hitting my daughter( when i was asleep of course).It's becoming more & more of a problem,I don't know why i do it or how to stop it from happen anymore?My Dr. thinks it's PTSD.So should i just buy my husband body gear or get twin beds?
>
> Why does your doctor think you have PTSD? He may be right. Did he indicate that these incidents were night-terrors? Do you automatically wake up when this happens, or are you awakened only by the impact of punching something or knocking something over? Are you in a state of great fear upon awakening?
>
> I have had similar experiences while taking certain medications. The last time this happened to me, I was taking Parnate and imipramine in combination. This side effect disappeared shortly after I discontinued Parnate. I'm guessing that Effexor and Lamictal may also be capable of this.
>
> Is there anything to which you can attribute it becoming more of a problem recently? Medication? Stress?
>
> I bet certain medications would help the situation. I don't have a clue as to which ones.
>
> Someone more knowledgeable of sleep-disorders will hopefully post a reply.
>
> Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
>
> Perhaps you could wear "socker-boppers". (You must be at least forty years old to understand this).
>
>
> - ScottI think that socker-boppers is a great choose. I don't think that it's my meds that are cause of my problem, because i've been doing this since i was very young.I can remember waking up from hitting the wall,my sister & brothers were always afraid to wake me up in the morning because i would start hit at them in my sleep (from what they tell me).I was abused by my mother & abused by a neighbor sexaully,my father had a problem w/ drugs (the hard kind),& would beat my mother up all the time so my house was like a battle field everyday. Even going to school was hell w/ kids picking on me all the time punching me in the head just for the fun of it,I was so scared all the time that i started to carry around a knife to school.So what all that in the past why would i still be fighting in my sleep?When i was in the hospital in MN i told the dr. there that i would of rather of gone to vietnam then living where i did,he asked me why & i told him because it would of been for a couple of years then 17yrs of hell.
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 25, 2000, at 23:24:58
In reply to Re: sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 24, 2000, at 19:43:51
> I think that socker-boppers is a great choose. I don't think that it's my meds that are cause of my problem, because i've been doing this since i was very young.I can remember waking up from hitting the wall,my sister & brothers were always afraid to wake me up in the morning because i would start hit at them in my sleep (from what they tell me).I was abused by my mother & abused by a neighbor sexaully,my father had a problem w/ drugs (the hard kind),& would beat my mother up all the time so my house was like a battle field everyday. Even going to school was hell w/ kids picking on me all the time punching me in the head just for the fun of it,I was so scared all the time that i started to carry around a knife to school.So what all that in the past why would i still be fighting in my sleep?When i was in the hospital in MN i told the dr. there that i would of rather of gone to vietnam then living where i did,he asked me why & i told him because it would of been for a couple of years then 17yrs of hell.
I'm sorry.
Warmly,
Scott
Posted by Cece on February 16, 2001, at 1:16:27
In reply to Re: sleep hitting, posted by kellyR. on April 24, 2000, at 19:43:51
I suggest that you do some research on sleep apnea, which can cause the "hitting" symptoms you describe. If you identify with what you read, do anything you can to get a full-fledged work-up in a sleep disorders clinic (which usually includes the miserable experience of staying overnight all wired up and monitored), to rule out the possiblity of sleep apnea. It also can cause cardiac stress, and may account for many cases of nightime cardiac arrest, so it is not an issue to take lightly.
These studies are expensive, and not available too many places- big teaching/research hospitals mostly. I cornered my HMO into sending me to Stanford for one after reading a first hand story about sleep apnea that sounded in many ways like my experience. To force their hand, I paid out of pocket for a preliminary interview at the clinic, which diagnosed significant evidence of a serious, potentially life-threatening problem. As it turned out, I don't have full-blown sleep apnea, but a "lower continuum" condition (not fully recognized in all medical circles) called Upper Airway Restrictive Disorder. I slept regularly for about 2 years with a CPAP machine (Continuous positive airway pressure), and the quality of my sleep improved immensely. I have lost some weight since then- which may have been a contributing factor- and now use the CPAP as needed. For me, the sign that I need it is a recurrence of fibromyalgia symptoms.
I'm sure that there may be other causes for your problem, but whatever they might be, a sleep disorders clinic is the best resource for evaluation.
Good luck!
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