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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 0:49:30
I have actually found a psychopharmacologist and I have made an appt. to see him. Perhaps Brazil isn't as 3rd worldish after all. I'm compiling a list of all the ways in which my behaviour deviates from the normal and one of the things I've noticed is that I have a curious lack of attachmment to people, places or things. I have moved many times in my life and I have always been able to do so without the slightest feeling of regret or loss. I've made quite a few close friends but I've always been able to move on . In fact I prefer moving on to staying put. My husband and I built this rather beautiful house but when money became tight I sold it without a qualm. I've never had a proprietary feeling about anything even my children whom I love dearly. I've always regarded this detachment of mine as a positive Budha-like quality (all things will pass). But now I'm beginning to wonder if this inability to make an emotional investment is a protective mechanism from possible loss, hurt etc. Does anyone else behave in a similar way? Am I really living on a higher plane or am I sicker than I thought I was? Jan
Posted by AndrewB on March 18, 2000, at 8:50:47
In reply to Curiously detached, posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 0:49:30
Jan,
When I feel that detached I am often reminded of a phrase from the Beatle's song Penny Lane, 'She feels as if she is in a play and she is anyway." I think you will be interested in the recent study (see below) that indicates a detached personality is associated with low function of the D2 recpetor. I know I've said it before to you, but I think you may benefit from a medicine you have available to you in Brazil called amisulpride (Socian). It will improve your D2-D3 receptor function and quite possibly make you feel less detached and more sociable. It has done that for me. It also could help your dysthymia and chronic fatigue. There are many studies showing this med. to be effective for dysthymia. It has been speculated that at least some people with chronic fatigue syndrome would benefit from a med. like amisulpride. The drug is very safe and has few side effects in general. I can send you more info. if you email me at andrewb@seanet.com
------------------------------------------------
Am J Psychiatry 2000 Feb;157(2):290-2Prediction of detached personality in healthy subjects by low
dopamine transporter binding.Laakso A, Vilkman H, Kajander J, Bergman J, paranta M, Solin O, Hietala J
Department of Pharmacology and Clinical Pharmacology, University of Turku, Finland. akilaa@utu.fi
OBJECTIVE: Low striatal dopamine D(2) receptor binding in healthy human subjects has been associated with detached personality in studies using positron emission tomography (PET) and the Karolinska Scales of Personality questionnaire. The authors investigated whether a similar correlation exists between striatal dopamine transporter binding and detached personality. METHOD: Eighteen healthy volunteers participated in a PET study with the specific dopamine transporter ligand [(18)F]CFT ([(18)F]WIN 35,428) and completed the Karolinska Scales of Personality questionnaire form. RESULTS: Age-corrected dopamine transporter binding in the putamen, but not in the caudate, correlated negatively with detachment personality scores, especially in the right hemisphere. CONCLUSIONS: This finding supports the hypothesis that low dopaminergic neurotransmission is associated with detached personality. Furthermore, since [(18)F]CFT binding is thought to reflect the density of dopaminergic nerve terminals in the brain, the authors suggest that the neurodevelopmental formation of the brain dopaminergic system may influence adult personality traits.
Posted by Janice on March 18, 2000, at 12:05:58
In reply to Re: Curiously detached, posted by AndrewB on March 18, 2000, at 8:50:47
you really hit a nerve for me! Thank you for crystallizing it into words for me. This is one of the reasons I have always been turned off Buddhism (on a very superficial level). I read it and go, 'Easy, it's called depression'.
thank you for the info Andrew B.
Janet, just a couple of ideas for you...I am giving them to you on impulse.
Have you ever looked into the hypo-active type of ADD?
*they often have quiet, impulsive shifting of life directions, etc.If you want to do some research on it, it's a type of ADD that women have (although some men have it too) and to the casual observer, it looks just like depression.
Much luck, and thank you again for your insights.
I, too, will look into Andrew Bs suggestions.
Janice
Posted by michael on March 18, 2000, at 13:36:53
In reply to Curiously detached, posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 0:49:30
> I have actually found a psychopharmacologist and I have made an appt. to see him. Perhaps Brazil isn't as 3rd worldish after all. I'm compiling a list of all the ways in which my behaviour deviates from the normal and one of the things I've noticed is that I have a curious lack of attachmment to people, places or things. I have moved many times in my life and I have always been able to do so without the slightest feeling of regret or loss. I've made quite a few close friends but I've always been able to move on . In fact I prefer moving on to staying put. My husband and I built this rather beautiful house but when money became tight I sold it without a qualm. I've never had a proprietary feeling about anything even my children whom I love dearly. I've always regarded this detachment of mine as a positive Budha-like quality (all things will pass). But now I'm beginning to wonder if this inability to make an emotional investment is a protective mechanism from possible loss, hurt etc. Does anyone else behave in a similar way? Am I really living on a higher plane or am I sicker than I thought I was? Jan
Janet -You may be onto something... But it could also be that from experience, you've learned to look forward, rather than backward? If it's something that you've experienced often, you may just have a different perspective than most people, who aren't as mobile, and who are more fearful of "change", than excited about a new adventure?
I can identify with you to some extent. For me, it can be a drag to leave friends, etc. behind - but there is also the adventure in something new... new frineds to make, new sights to see, etc. Whenever I move, I know that I'm more outgoing and curious, checking out everything that's new to me, meeting new people and making new friends. And when I look back, I can also see that I get into a rut after a while. I don't go to new places or try new things as much, or make an effort to meet new people - because I did that when I first arrived - now I know the places I enjoy going to, the local bands I enjoy going to see, and I’ve already developed a bunch of good friends, etc. Of course, I enjoy going back to visit, or calling, to reminisce, etc.
At the same time, I knew someone who’s father worked a few years at a time in different embassys around the world. And in addition to what I mentioned above, she also had learned to cut ties and move on - without looking back. Not leaving on bad terms, but perhaps not having opened up quite as much, bonded quite as tightly, and not developing as strong an attachment to any particular place – since nowhere was really “home”. In her circumstances, I think she had actually learned to avoid strong an attachents (with the exception of a few close friends who had grown up with the same lifestyle, and who had therefore --and would in the future -- cross paths with her every now and then) I think that in her case, the lack of attachment was a coping or defense mechanism, since nothing was really permanent...
Just some ideas... only you can tell if any of them might be relevant to you.
Posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 18:08:06
In reply to Re: Curiously detached, posted by AndrewB on March 18, 2000, at 8:50:47
> Jan,
>
> When I feel that detached I am often reminded of a phrase from the Beatle's song Penny Lane, 'She feels as if she is in a play and she is anyway." I think you will be interested in the recent study (see below) that indicates a detached personality is associated with low function of the D2 recpetor. I know I've said it before to you, but I think you may benefit from a medicine you have available to you in Brazil called amisulpride (Socian). It will improve your D2-D3 receptor function and quite possibly make you feel less detached and more sociable. It has done that for me. It also could help your dysthymia and chronic fatigue. There are many studies showing this med. to be effective for dysthymia. It has been speculated that at least some people with chronic fatigue syndrome would benefit from a med. like amisulpride. The drug is very safe and has few side effects in general. I can send you more info. if you email me at andrewb@seanet.com
> ------------------------------------------------
> Am J Psychiatry 2000 Feb;157(2):290-2
>
> Prediction of detached personality in healthy subjects by low
> dopamine transporter binding.
>
> Laakso A, Vilkman H, Kajander J, Bergman J, paranta M, Solin O, Hietala J
>
> Department of Pharmacology and Clinical Pharmacology, University of Turku, Finland. akilaa@utu.fi
>
> OBJECTIVE: Low striatal dopamine D(2) receptor binding in healthy human subjects has been associated with detached personality in studies using positron emission tomography (PET) and the Karolinska Scales of Personality questionnaire. The authors investigated whether a similar correlation exists between striatal dopamine transporter binding and detached personality. METHOD: Eighteen healthy volunteers participated in a PET study with the specific dopamine transporter ligand [(18)F]CFT ([(18)F]WIN 35,428) and completed the Karolinska Scales of Personality questionnaire form. RESULTS: Age-corrected dopamine transporter binding in the putamen, but not in the caudate, correlated negatively with detachment personality scores, especially in the right hemisphere. CONCLUSIONS: This finding supports the hypothesis that low dopaminergic neurotransmission is associated with detached personality. Furthermore, since [(18)F]CFT binding is thought to reflect the density of dopaminergic nerve terminals in the brain, the authors suggest that the neurodevelopmental formation of the brain dopaminergic system may influence adult personality traits.Dear Andrew, Thank you once again for your great posts. I'm definitely printing yours and JohnLs out to show to the new doc. His reaction to them will be a kind of test.This will be the first time I'll actually present a complete list of symptoms to a doc. I'd previously thought that things like my detachment and total lack of organisation were personality traits. I am so grateful to this board for having given me the information so that I can get myself sorted out properly although sometimes the amount of information overwhelms me. Once again thanks. Jan
Posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 18:33:30
In reply to Re: Curiously detached, posted by Janice on March 18, 2000, at 12:05:58
> you really hit a nerve for me! Thank you for crystallizing it into words for me. This is one of the reasons I have always been turned off Buddhism (on a very superficial level). I read it and go, 'Easy, it's called depression'.
>
> thank you for the info Andrew B.
>
> Janet, just a couple of ideas for you...I am giving them to you on impulse.
>
> Have you ever looked into the hypo-active type of ADD?
> *they often have quiet, impulsive shifting of life directions, etc.
>
> If you want to do some research on it, it's a type of ADD that women have (although some men have it too) and to the casual observer, it looks just like depression.
>
> Much luck, and thank you again for your insights.
>
> I, too, will look into Andrew Bs suggestions.
>
> Janice
Dear Janice, Thanks I'll look into hypo-ADD. I've noticed that many times you've referred to your Catholic upbringing and I wonder if it has played any part in the development of your illness. I was brought up in a strict, repressive,joyless Catholic household and I wonder if this triggered my depression and detachment. Religion is supposed to be conducive to mental health but I wonder if Catholicism's emphasis on outward form rather than inner change has the opposite effect.I always remember wondering why the most avid mass goers and communion takers were the nastiest people you could ever wish to meet. I haven't been able to shake my belief in Christ, nor the concept of original sin and I believe in the need for a moral code but in my efforts to go back to the church are always checked by my revolt at the rampant hypocrisy. Sorry if I've bored you . Jan
Posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 21:11:30
In reply to Re:mental illnes and Catholicism, posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 18:33:30
> > you really hit a nerve for me! Thank you for crystallizing it into words for me. This is one of the reasons I have always been turned off Buddhism (on a very superficial level). I read it and go, 'Easy, it's called depression'.
> >
> > thank you for the info Andrew B.
> >
> > Janet, just a couple of ideas for you...I am giving them to you on impulse.
> >
> > Have you ever looked into the hypo-active type of ADD?
> > *they often have quiet, impulsive shifting of life directions, etc.
> >
> > If you want to do some research on it, it's a type of ADD that women have (although some men have it too) and to the casual observer, it looks just like depression.
> >
> > Much luck, and thank you again for your insights.
> >
> > I, too, will look into Andrew Bs suggestions.
> >
> > Janice
> Dear Janice, Thanks I'll look into hypo-ADD. I've noticed that many times you've referred to your Catholic upbringing and I wonder if it has played any part in the development of your illness. I was brought up in a strict, repressive,joyless Catholic household and I wonder if this triggered my depression and detachment. Religion is supposed to be conducive to mental health but I wonder if Catholicism's emphasis on outward form rather than inner change has the opposite effect.I always remember wondering why the most avid mass goers and communion takers were the nastiest people you could ever wish to meet. I haven't been able to shake my belief in Christ, nor the concept of original sin and I believe in the need for a moral code but in my efforts to go back to the church are always checked by my revolt at the rampant hypocrisy. Sorry if I've bored you . Jan
The above post is for you love Jan
Posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 21:22:11
In reply to Re:mental illnes and Catholicism, posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 18:33:30
> > you really hit a nerve for me! Thank you for crystallizing it into words for me. This is one of the reasons I have always been turned off Buddhism (on a very superficial level). I read it and go, 'Easy, it's called depression'.
> >
> > thank you for the info Andrew B.
> >
> > Janet, just a couple of ideas for you...I am giving them to you on impulse.
> >
> > Have you ever looked into the hypo-active type of ADD?
> > *they often have quiet, impulsive shifting of life directions, etc.
> >
> > If you want to do some research on it, it's a type of ADD that women have (although some men have it too) and to the casual observer, it looks just like depression.
> >
> > Much luck, and thank you again for your insights.
> >
> > I, too, will look into Andrew Bs suggestions.
> >
> > Janice
> Dear Janice, Thanks I'll look into hypo-ADD. I've noticed that many times you've referred to your Catholic upbringing and I wonder if it has played any part in the development of your illness. I was brought up in a strict, repressive,joyless Catholic household and I wonder if this triggered my depression and detachment. Religion is supposed to be conducive to mental health but I wonder if Catholicism's emphasis on outward form rather than inner change has the opposite effect.I always remember wondering why the most avid mass goers and communion takers were the nastiest people you could ever wish to meet. I haven't been able to shake my belief in Christ, nor the concept of original sin and I believe in the need for a moral code but in my efforts to go back to the church are always checked by my revolt at the rampant hypocrisy. Sorry if I've bored you . JanThe above post is for you Kind Regards Jan
Posted by Janice on March 19, 2000, at 16:15:18
In reply to Re:mental illnes and Catholicism, posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 18:33:30
Hi Jan,
yes, I have to admit, religion has f***ed me over quite royally. It doesn't seem fair that young, sensitive children (the ones that grow up to have emotional disorders) should have to be exposed to this kind of nonsense.
It was a Protestant church that did it to me...they basically worshipped the devil and were waiting for the end of the world--or this is all they ever seemed to talk about. BLIND FAITH--your brain is not to use, it's something you resign to the church.
I am especially cynical and angry today Janet! I believe the above, but I also believe it is the people who get attracted to these types of religion that are the real problem. And extremely sensitive people should not be exposed to fanatacism.
it was a trigger for me. As of just recently, I come to believe, I've had bipolar forever--which would have made me very suspectable to the kind of extreme anxiety this protestant religion provoked in me.
take care Jan
Posted by Janice on March 20, 2000, at 23:36:38
In reply to To janice , posted by JanetR on March 18, 2000, at 21:22:11
Hello JanetR,
I was a little too intense for my own good yesterday.
'strict, repressive,joyless Catholic household and I wonder if this triggered my depression and detachment.'
Yes, this could definately set you up for a life with depression. First because your parents may well have been depressed (or with depressive leanings) to have adopted and practised this type of Catholicism, and second of all because of the life style (repressive, and joyless) that your family practised is, I think, conducive to depression.
'Religion is supposed to be conducive to mental health' I wonder about this too.
Whereever humans & a code of ethics meet, I believe, there will be rampant hypocrisy.
You haven't bored me at all Janet R.
I don't blame one person who had bad experiences with religion to be completely turned off of it.
Is Brazil very Catholic? Is it changing?
This is the end of the thread.
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