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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 11:13:32
I can't believe noone out there hasn't undergone ECT- is that a double negative? Anyway, having no responses is making me really nervous, like did you survive? Thanks.
Posted by Chris A. on February 3, 2000, at 17:23:33
In reply to ECT again, posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 11:13:32
I'm in the midst of my fourth round of ECT over a period of 23 years. This time we are doing them unilaterally to minimize memory loss and other cognitive problems. We are also scheduluing them farther apart. Subjectively I thought I had a lot of cognitive problems from when I had them in '92 - permanent memory loss, name-face-recognition difficulties, etc. I took professional boards a year after the last ones and aced them, though. Perhaps some of my perceived difficulties were just that. It's hard decision to make. I did have a couple of hours of aphasia following my treatment a couple of days ago, but it resolved in a couple of hours. At this point I plan to do maintenance ECT.
Posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 19:31:59
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Chris A. on February 3, 2000, at 17:23:33
Thank you Chris for your honesty- I already have cognitive problems from a head injury so that is my major concern with ECT. The drs. claim there is some short term memory impairment but that was the only negative they cited. Are you treatment resistant also? When you mentioned you aced your boards, does that mean you are functioning intellectually at the same level you were before the ECT? How about the name-face recognition, has that improved? Since I am already functioning below the level I was before my head injury, I have had extensive neuropsych testing, I am concerned about making it worse. Thank you again for your response.
Posted by Noa on February 3, 2000, at 19:58:15
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 19:31:59
Judy, I found this article (abstract) on use of ECT in patients with brain injury. Here is the address:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9990553&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
Posted by Chris A. on February 3, 2000, at 21:21:21
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 19:31:59
Do you have a neurologist that's cared for you that you can ask for an opinion about the ECT? My biggest barrier to functioning has been onging bipolar depression, and not side effects from the ECT. I'm starting to notice the name-face problem this time, but hopefully it is only temporary again. I would've preferred to try rTMS, but that is not available at all in my locale. The pDoc who gave me the second opinion this time mentioned the vagal nerve stimulation. We have been through meds and more meds. I decided to start ECT when Bayer Corp. cut off my nimodipine supply. I just reviewed my ECT consent. It speaks of the possibility of losing some memories, particularlly those from right around the time the procedures are done and about the difficulty of learning new material for a short while. Whatever you decide, I wish you well.
Posted by judy1 on February 4, 2000, at 14:31:08
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Noa on February 3, 2000, at 19:58:15
I checked out the abstract and plan to read the article on my next trip to the med library (probably next week). I appreciate the effort you put in. Take care
Posted by judy1 on February 4, 2000, at 14:39:58
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Chris A. on February 3, 2000, at 21:21:21
I also have a treatment resistant rapid cycling bipolar disorder- I'm sure you've probably hit all the meds like I have. My presentation is usually manic- the thought of depression is very frightening to me (even though my manic episodes cause the most damage) I saw a neuropsychologist who also suggested rTMS and I think I should seriously look into it. My neurologist is against ECT but has no suggestions other than trying different combos of meds again. He has seen my deterioration and is concerned. I guess I'm shocked at the cavalier attitude of the pdocs I've consulted- their main concern is to stop the cycling, mine is to keep my intellect. It is a difficult decision and I thank you for your opinion. Take care.
Posted by Ruth on February 6, 2000, at 13:22:58
In reply to ECT again, posted by judy1 on February 3, 2000, at 11:13:32
I had two rounds of ECT treatment a year apart. My experience was mixed. I tried it only after having failed a lot of medications and combinations. The first time I had a dramatic decrease in symptoms in a short period of time, but they began to recur within a few months. The second time my response was not as pronounced though I did have gradual improvement.
As for side effects. What you have been told about memory around the time of treatments is true. I have little memory for things that occurred around t he time of treatment. The other cognitive effects have been problematic. There is research out there that shows that there are no long term effects from ECT. That has not been my experience. I have what I've come to call "swiss cheese memory" where there are pieces of my past that are just lost to me. I also have troubling learning and remembering new information. My doctor feels this is still temporary (though it's been a y;ear and a half) and that it is just that cognitive function takes longer to resolve than the mood piece of the depression. I want to believe he is right.
LEt me know if you have more specific questions I can answer.
> I can't believe noone out there hasn't undergone ECT- is that a double negative? Anyway, having no responses is making me really nervous, like did you survive? Thanks.
Posted by judy1 on February 6, 2000, at 16:24:47
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Ruth on February 6, 2000, at 13:22:58
I cannot convey how much I appreciate how you and Chris have given me your experiences with ECT. I wonder how these papers get written extolling the virtues- while I have no doubt that I would get immediate short term relief from my rapid cycling or occasional psychotic episodes- a shot of haldol did the same for a short time (and without the memory loss). I think I questioned earlier about how the ECT pdocs make so much money- they certainly have beautiful offices and are free in handing out those well made videos of ECT patients. I guess I'm getting hopeless again- having done the all drug/some drug/no drug approach- like Chris said there's rTMS or I can accept what's happening and just do the emergency measures which means lots of hospitals lately. I've ruled out ECT, I trust your account a lot more than someone who hasn't been through it. Sorry to ramble and whine- this sure isn't easy is it?
Posted by sandi on February 6, 2000, at 17:56:51
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Ruth on February 6, 2000, at 13:22:58
> I had two rounds of ECT treatment a year apart. My experience was mixed. I tried it only after having failed a lot of medications and combinations. The first time I had a dramatic decrease in symptoms in a short period of time, but they began to recur within a few months. The second time my response was not as pronounced though I did have gradual improvement.
>
> As for side effects. What you have been told about memory around the time of treatments is true. I have little memory for things that occurred around t he time of treatment. The other cognitive effects have been problematic. There is research out there that shows that there are no long term effects from ECT. That has not been my experience. I have what I've come to call "swiss cheese memory" where there are pieces of my past that are just lost to me. I also have troubling learning and remembering new information. My doctor feels this is still temporary (though it's been a y;ear and a half) and that it is just that cognitive function takes longer to resolve than the mood piece of the depression. I want to believe he is right.
>
> LEt me know if you have more specific questions I can answer.
>
> > I can't believe noone out there hasn't undergone ECT- is that a double negative? Anyway, having no responses is making me really nervous, like did you survive? Thanks.
My experience with ECT is that it worked wonderfully on my depression and rapidly. I had a total of 17 treatments in 1995 (2 series and 1 maintenance in between.) I believe I still have cognitive deficits and many lost memories because of them. When I mentioned this to my pdoc, he seemed quite suprised that I did not realize I would have some "brain damage"-as he called it-from the treatments.Would I have it again?
Only if I was suicidal with no other promising options. I wish you luck----sandi
Posted by quilter on February 8, 2000, at 1:07:36
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by Ruth on February 6, 2000, at 13:22:58
> I had two rounds of ECT treatment a year apart. My experience was mixed. I tried it only after having failed a lot of medications and combinations. The first time I had a dramatic decrease in symptoms in a short period of time, but they began to recur within a few months. The second time my response was not as pronounced though I did have gradual improvement.
>
> As for side effects. What you have been told about memory around the time of treatments is true. I have little memory for things that occurred around t he time of treatment. The other cognitive effects have been problematic. There is research out there that shows that there are no long term effects from ECT. That has not been my experience. I have what I've come to call "swiss cheese memory" where there are pieces of my past that are just lost to me. I also have troubling learning and remembering new information. My doctor feels this is still temporary (though it's been a y;ear and a half) and that it is just that cognitive function takes longer to resolve than the mood piece of the depression. I want to believe he is right.
>
> LEt me know if you have more specific questions I can answer.
>
> > I can't believe noone out there hasn't undergone ECT- is that a double negative? Anyway, having no responses is making me really nervous, like did you survive? Thanks.Ruth , I had the same results and consequences you did. My memory is bad wenough that I no longer even consider ECT an option.
Posted by Carolyn on February 8, 2000, at 18:49:57
In reply to Re: ECT again, posted by quilter on February 8, 2000, at 1:07:36
I had six ECT treatments five years ago. I still do not remember the month leading up to the treatment period and have spotty memories of the time I was in the hospital and the week following. However, it was helpful for my depression, which had been treatment-resistant. The depression re-occured, but perhaps would have been kept at bay had I had maintenance treatments. Instead I switched doctors...got on new medication which worked. Now I am suffering from SRI poop-out and am considering asking for ECT, as I am not in a position to stay home from work for an indefinite period and want quick relief. Will give it a few weeks longer. It is very scary to think of going through all this again...not the treatments so much as the awfulness of the depression leading up to such a drastic measure. My self esteem is very low. I do not talk at work. I cry only occasionally. I think about harming myself, but have a 15 year old to think about. I have times of knowing that how I feel and think about myself and act towards others (or fail to act) is due to depression, and other times when I think I'm just incredibly selfish and making all of this up in my head...that I really am a terrible person. Do others have this "back and forth" feeling? Sometimes I think I'm losing my mind.
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