![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by andrewb on October 15, 1999, at 17:48:28
I’ve tried supplementing with the amino acid tyrosine. It didn’t make a difference for me. Some people claim that tyrosine, typically taken on an empty stomach in the morning, increases their drive (motivation). This makes some sense. Tyrosine is a precursor for dopamine. Dopamine, I’ve read, goes on to create norepinephrine. Dopamine and norepinephrine play a role in motivation, energy, alertness and vigilance. There is a rate limiting step in the conversion of tyrosine to dopamine however. So while the precursor tryptophan will very much effect seretonin levels (and, yes, I believe you should use caution when combining tryptophan with an SSRI), dopamine levels are harder to influence using precursors. Sometimes dopamine synthesis can be increased by combining the tyrosine with B vitamins and magnesium supplements. Carbidopa can increase the amount of tyrosine delivered to the brain. NADH, a supplement, can at times increase dopamine synthesis.
This raises the question whether it is desirable to raise one’s dopamine levels. Having taken amineptine, a general dopamine reuptake blocker, and amisulpride which is D2-D3 receptor specific, my experience tells me that it is preferable to ‘activate’ only the dopamine pathways involved with mood and motivation, that is, the limbic system D2-D3 structures.
Posted by dj on October 16, 1999, at 12:38:00
In reply to Tyrosine: reply to dj, posted by andrewb on October 15, 1999, at 17:48:28
Andrew, thanks as always for your well considered comments. Have you tried the DLPA combo. which is supposed to be more balanced than straight L-tyrosine or L-phenylalanine?
Did you try using carbidopa or NADH with tyrosine?
I take if from your comments that L-tyrosine & L-phenylalanine are not acitvators for "the dopamine pathways involved with mood and motivation, that is, the limbic system D2-D3 structures." but rather boost the dopamine level overall. Is this correct? If so do you know of any non-pharmaceutical supplements which may have the same effect?
Posted by andrewb on October 16, 1999, at 14:25:58
In reply to Re: Further queries for andrewb..., posted by dj on October 16, 1999, at 12:38:00
I haven't tried DLPA or carbidopa. I tried NADH but did'nt feel anything. There are no non-pharmacuetical D2-D3 specific supplements that I know of. There is a maximum rate at which the body can convert tyrosine to dopamine. If the body hasn't already achieved that maximum rate, tyrosine supplements may be able to inrease the overall dopamine levels as I understand it.
Posted by saint james on October 16, 1999, at 22:25:36
In reply to reply to dj, posted by andrewb on October 16, 1999, at 14:25:58
> I haven't tried DLPA or carbidopa. I tried NADH but did'nt feel anything. There are no non-pharmacuetical D2-D3 specific supplements that I know of. There is a maximum rate at which the body can convert tyrosine to dopamine. If the body hasn't already achieved that maximum rate, tyrosine supplements may be able to inrease the overall dopamine levels as I understand it.
James here....
Given that these aminos are well represented in all food in signicicant amounts supplementation
does not seem to work for depression, If you take additional aminos you body sloffs the excess off.Also depression is really not about having enough neuro transmitters (and their percursors) but about regulation (reuptake, down regulation) of NT's. If depression was an EZ tit for tat condition (take more aminos, be happy) we would of cured depression in the 1940's.
If you are a speed addict then you are burning aminos like crazy, so aminos are helpful in replacing what you burn and good if you are trying to get off speed. (to help your body make up for NT deficit)
j
Posted by bigb on October 20, 1999, at 11:07:01
In reply to Re: reply to dj, posted by saint james on October 16, 1999, at 22:25:36
> If you are a speed addict then you are burning aminos like crazy, so aminos are helpful in replacing what you burn and good if you are trying to get off speed. (to help your body make up for NT deficit)
James-
Does the above have any application to persons
being treated for ADD who are taking stims?What
about ADDers who also take anti-Ds? Should ADDers
supplement their diets with aminos and which ones?Thanks to both you and Andrew for your in-depth
Q&A's. I don't know much about brain chemistry,
but your posts indicate a lot is involved in taking
these meds and I would like to understand it better.
Can you guys reccommend a good "starter" book?
Posted by saint james on October 21, 1999, at 0:30:12
In reply to Re: James/Andrew, posted by bigb on October 20, 1999, at 11:07:01
> James-
>
> Does the above have any application to persons
> being treated for ADD who are taking stims?What
> about ADDers who also take anti-Ds? Should ADDers
> supplement their diets with aminos and which ones?
>
James here....No, not generally. The doses of abuce are orders of magnitude greater than thereputic doses.
Start at http://www.hyperreal.org/nootropics/index.html
also search using "smart drugs" or "nootropics"
j
Posted by saint james on October 21, 1999, at 4:58:33
In reply to Re: James/Andrew, posted by bigb on October 20, 1999, at 11:07:01
> Can you guys reccommend a good "starter" book?
James here....
Go to your local pill shop and buy "Mental Edge"
at http://www.thecornucopia.com/mental.html you can see what is in it. If one would like to see if taking in more percursors for brain chems will do this product covers the major ones. I came to conclusion that I did not benifit that much to justify the cost. I feel I am better off taking a good multi vit and mineral supp.BTW, here is a list of the "brain chems"
GENERAL BIOCHEMICALS (e.g. brain tissue homogenates)
Ascorbic acid
N-acetyl serotonin
3,4-dihydroxy-benzylamine
3,4-dihydroxy-mandelic acid (DOMA)
3,4-dihydroxy-phenylacetic acid (DOPAC)
3,4-dihydroxy-phenylalanine (L-DOPA)
3,4-dihydroxy-phenylglycol (DHPG)
3-hydroxy-anthranilic acid
2-hydroxy-phenylacetic acid (2HPAC)
4-hydroxy-benzoic acid (4HBAC)
8-hydroxy-2-deoxyguanosine
5-hydroxy indole-3-acetic acid (5HIAA)
3-hydroxy-kynurenine
3-hydroxy-mandelic acid
3-hydroxy-4-methoxyphenylethylamine
4-hydroxy-phenylacetic acid (4HPAC)
4-hydroxy-phenyllactic acid (4HPLA)
5-hydroxy-tryptophan (5HTP)
5-hydroxy-tryptophol (5HTOL)
5-hydroxy-tryptamine (5HT)
5-hydroxy-tryptamine sulfate
3-methoxy-4-hydroxy phenylglycol (MHPG)
5-methoxy-tryptamine
5-methoxy-tryptophan
5-methoxy-tryptophol
3-methoxy-tyramine (3MT)
3-methoxy-tyrosine (3-OM-DOPA)
5-methyl-cysteine
3-methyl-guanine
7-methyl-guanine
Anthranilic acid
Bufotenine
Dopamine
Dopamine-3-glucuronide
Dopamine-3-sulfate
Dopamine-4-sulfate
Epinephrine
Epinine
Folic acid
Glutathione (reduced) Glutathione (oxidized)
Guanine
Guanosine
Homogentisic acid (hga)
Homovanillic acid (hva)
Homovanillyl alcohol (hvol)
Homoveratic acid
Hva-sulfate
Hypoxanthine
Indole
Indole-3-acetic acid
Indole-3-lactic acid
Kynurenine
Melatonin
Metanephrine
N-methyl-tryptamine
N-methyl-tyramine
N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine
N,N-dimethyl-tyramine
Norepinephrine
Normetanephrine
Octopamine
Pyridoxal
Pyridoxal-phosphate
Pyridoxamine
Synephrine
Tryptophol
Tryptamine
Tyramine
Uric acid
Vanillylmandelic acid (vma)
Xanthine
Xanthosine
2,3-dihydroxybenzoic acid
2,4-dihydroxybenzoic acid
3,4-dihydroxybenzoic acid
6-hydroxydopamine
3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetaldehyde
L-threo-3,4-dihydroxyphenylserine
Parbanic acidNote that your body makes Indole and Bufotenine
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.