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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lisa on October 29, 1998, at 15:30:40
Unfortunately, I'm posting this at the end of the month, and hopefully someone will continue the thread after it goes into the folder. I may be completely wrong about this or possibly paranoid, but we'll have to see. Let's not forget that I am bipolar and have no medical training, but rather 15 years of living with the disease. Dr. Bob said:
> I don't have any official assistants. At least not
> yet, anyway. Other people who help out here are
> helping out on their own. I tried to address this
> before and have to say I was disappointed by the
> response. See:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/199809/msgs/604.htmlIt's obvious after reviewing the page that you were looking for other professionals to answer posts on this list but got no response. I've been under the impression that we were all here to share our experiences with each other, and also to help out other fellow sufferers with any personal knowledge we possess from going through similar ordeals. I check the board daily and find many questions going unanswered or ignored. Why?? I don't know except that maybe others who frequent the board feel that their feelings about an issue or their advice might be attacked or corrected by one of the limited amount of professionals (‘attacked' is too harsh a word to use there, but the Gabapentin and Clonazepam tend to fog my writing these days). I've had so many pieces of my posts copied into other threads, so how can I not help feeling targeted (Aha! There's the correct word :).
I'm curious, Dr. Bob. Have you ever experienced a severe depression, debilitating panic attacks, or inconceivable manias? Do you know what it's like to suffer the sometimes intolerable side effects of medications? Would you even consider inducing a panic attack or mania on yourself with certain drugs known to cause those reactions? I've been a research rat, and I know it can be done. Even with all your education and training, can you really know and *feel* exactly what we go through? I think not, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that this is where posts from those who have been there can be invaluable.
> I don't mean to be insensitive, but let me just
> say that in theory it *is* conceivable that a
> personality conflict was the problem. IOW, he may
> have been a bad doctor for you because your
> personalities didn't mesh, but it may be that he
> may be a fine doctor for patients with different
> personalities.You *are* being insensitive by not trying to place yourself in my situation. If Internet Psychiatry is an interest of yours, realize that the Net is a big world with across the board views of everything. It is not confined to *your* world. He was a bad doctor for me not because our personalities didn't mesh, as you say, but because I found his form of practice incompetent and a waste of my money. For someone who has to pay 50% of all mental health bills, I am not going to settle for someone that cannot remember what medication I'm taking after a month of visits. Maybe he was a "fine doctor" for patients too ill to educate themselves or lacking the energy to seek better help, and for some patients, the act of keeping an appointment with any doctor is extremely difficult. As I have repeatedly said to you, things were fine personality-wise until I questioned his actions and behavior. He obviously did *not* want to hear those things.
Again you found it important for some reason to quote me in your answer to "Employer Requesting Information."
> > is it legal for an employer to require an
> > employee to list all medications he/she is
> > taking?> I have to answer that with a big fat NO!!
>
> An employer does not have any rights to such
> information, and as far as I know, asking you to
> divulge that information falls somewhere under
> "discriminating questions that an employer cannot
> ask."I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. Though I have had some legal training and personal experience on this issue, my response was only friendly advice from one patient to another. Toby made a point with urine screen tests. I forgot about those because I've never been in a position where I had to take one.
> I think it's with *potential* employers that
> discrimination's a big issue: they're not supposed
> to deny people jobs just because of any mental
> problems.You spoke of discrimination from potential employers, when most of my answer was geared toward that same situation. I also told Paul to consult an attorney if the employer hired him as a disabled employee. I also assumed that this was the same Paul who posted on October 26th re: adult ADD, depression, and anxiety. If it was that Paul it goes beyond Toby's response of over the counter meds showing up on the test, because he is taking Ritalin and Wellbutrin.
> But if it's actual employers, the people already
> have jobs, so that's not an issue.You have got to be kidding me :) Not an issue?? Have you ever been stigmatized on the job because your employer found out about your mental illness? Do you have any idea what it's like to have them look at you like your nuts? Where work was fantastic before the discovery, suddenly now it needs improvement? Have you experienced your boss's trust in you as a distinguished employee diminish in a heartbeat? The law provides defenses against discrimination for people already having jobs, but please don't tell me or others that the social stigma is not an issue. I am so disturbed by society's view on mental illness that I recently had a shirt created that says "I am manic-depressive. STOP the ignorance" Yes, I *do* wear it in public. :-}
I have now set myself up again as a target. Have fun! Roll Tide! Go, War Eagle!
Lisa
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 1998, at 5:01:20
In reply to Wrong About The Objectives Of This Board???, posted by Lisa on October 29, 1998, at 15:30:40
> It's obvious ... that you were looking for other
> professionals to answer posts on this list but
> got no response.Not exactly. It's clear that other professionals
are answering posts here. And I think that's great.
That's *one* way this forum can be helpful.But what I was thinking was that it would be nice
to know a little more about those professionals.
Nobody should just accept advice blindly, you know.> I've been under the impression that we were all
> here to share our experiences with each other,
> and also to help out other fellow sufferers with
> any personal knowledge we possess from going
> through similar ordeals.Exactly right, fellow sufferers helping each other
out is also a great way to use this forum.> I check the board daily and find many questions
> going unanswered or ignored. Why?? I don't know
> except that maybe others who frequent the board
> feel that their feelings about an issue or their
> advice might be attacked or corrected by one of
> the limited amount of professionalsI hope that's not the reason. And I'm sorry if you
feel attacked (or even targeted) by me. If I try to
correct some information, it's just because I want
the information to be correct. I don't mean to
imply any criticism of anyone else.If other people have any comments, I'm all ears...
> > I don't mean to be insensitive, but let me just
> > say that in theory it *is* conceivable that a
> > personality conflict was the problem.> You *are* being insensitive by not trying to
> place yourself in my situation. If Internet
> Psychiatry is an interest of yours, realize that
> the Net is a big world with across the board
> views of everything. It is not confined to
> *your* world. He was a bad doctor for me not
> because our personalities didn't mesh, as you
> say, but because I found his form of practice
> incompetent and a waste of my money.I *was* trying to place myself in your situation.
That's one reason I asked if you felt he was
blaming you for the problem. And I do realize there
are lots of views in the world. In fact, what I'm
trying to do is explain one. :-)Let me try again. Clearly there was a problem. He
forgot what medication you were on, etc. That
shouldn't have happened. It was his fault. I'm not
trying to let him off the hook. I'm not saying you
should settle for that kind of treatment.But I don't know if we can be sure that he treats
all his patients that way. Maybe he does, but maybe
he doesn't.So, the only thing I was trying to say was that I
think in theory it's conceivable that he doesn't
treat all his patients that way. But then why would
he treat some patients that way and some patients
another way? Maybe because of how his personality
and those of his patients mesh -- or don't.Does that make sense?
> Again you found it important for some reason to
> quote me in your answer to "Employer Requesting
> Information."...
>
> my response was only friendly advice from one
> patient to another.And I just wanted to add a friendly clarification
based on what I know about the Americans with
Disabilities Act. :-)> > I think it's with *potential* employers that
> > discrimination's a big issue: they're not supposed
> > to deny people jobs just because of any mental
> > problems.
> >
> > But if it's actual employers, the people already
> > have jobs, so that's not an issue.> You have got to be kidding me :) Not an issue??
> Have you ever been stigmatized on the job because
> your employer found out about your mental
> illness?Sorry, I wasn't clear enough again. All I meant
was that once someone has a job, *denying them a
job* isn't an issue anymore.So, AFAIK, it's not illegal to ask them if they're
taking any medication. It *is* wrong, of course,
to discriminate against them just because they are.
I think I said in my next sentence that I didn't
condone discrimination on the job.OK, my turn to be the target now, I guess. :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 31, 1998, at 11:26:16
In reply to Re: Wrong? No, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 1998, at 5:01:20
> once someone has a job, *denying them a
> job* isn't an issue anymore.
>
> So, AFAIK, it's not illegal to ask them if they're
> taking any medication.I looked into this a little more. The ADA deals
with discrimination both when someone's applying
for a job and once they're on the job.Before hiring someone, an employer isn't supposed
to ask about disabilities. They can, of course, ask
if the person can do the job, possibly with
accommodations for disabilities, but the person
doesn't have to say at that time whether they would
need any such accommodations.After hiring them, however, the employer can then
ask if they have any disabilities for which they
would like accommodations. That makes sense, since
how else would they know to make any
accommodations?But even then, they're not supposed just to ask
what disabilities the person has, period. So I
don't think it would be OK to ask what medications
they're on, period, either.Unless there are special circumstances. An airline
pilot can probably be required to disclose the
medications they're on, for example, but a flight
attendant probably can't.Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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