![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 49 to 73 of 82. Go back in thread:
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2005, at 15:38:20
In reply to Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » 10derHeart, posted by Susan47 on June 4, 2005, at 12:24:21
The first time I read this, this word jumped out, and I misread it. See if you can guess what word I *thought* it was....
> No, my first reaction to what you're writing now is no, I'm not fearful, but then I make a big chain, you know, a heavy chain with huge, heavy steel links, it's a link from the **dock**
I guess the word penis does have a lot of power.
> to the ship ... when I was three we "came to America" ... I remember a huge ocean liner, with big anchors in front, and a huge wooden dock, empty but for some few tiny humans ... I remember the solidity of the dock beneath my feet, I remember some huge emotion, my father's excitement ... a smell of ocean .. it was Hamburg ...
> Whew.
> Don't know why I just went there. I haven't remembered this incident so clearly, so freely, in my life. I remember this.
> Oh yes, penises. Lovely, lovely hard and soft hot and mellow things .. attached to a mind, attached to strength, attached to me ... hmh. No, not attached to me, but inside me, somewhere ...
> Okay.I'm a little suprised....maybe only a little...at how much has been evoked by my use of the word. You see, it's the only aspect of my maleness that I was born with. All the rest I developed. My secondary sex characteristics, and especially, my male social behaviours, came after. So, I think of the penis as the basic maleness, and I use it as the primary symbol, when I want to strip away all the other aspects of male identity.
Not to say I haven't learned things about penology (I'm sure there actually *is* a "study of the penis and how it employed") over the years. <heh>
> Yes, I suppose somewhere inside me is a fear of men's sexuality. I want to find it beautiful, I want to find my own beautiful.
That was sweetly said.
> Maybe the fear is that it's not acceptable?
The very idea of that disturbs me, somehow, that you might have such a fear.
> I think my parents were really really sexual, even in front of us, Well, I think about the way they were and yes, they really were in some ways.. they were sometimes pretty disgusting about it, in my little mind .. but I don't know why I think that, except when I think they didn't like to see anything sexual about us, or maybe it was that they did, you know, and they laughed at it.
> Or something.
> Something.
> Wish I knew, think it might not be important to dissect, you know but I have this feeling that my subconscious isn't going to let it rest.My gut reaction to your revelation is that it is very important to understand this ambivalence. I think a great deal of importance bears on this ambivalence.
Somebody taught you to think of yourself as disgusting in a sexual context. (Oh dear, I hope that doesn't sound harsh. I'm restating what you just said, I think.)
> It never does.
> I try, but I have this really strong subconscious mind.
> Whew.What do you gain from suppressing this?
Tenderly,
Lar
Posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 18:40:05
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2005, at 15:38:20
Okay so I haven't read the whole thread...
And I must...
But I must also GET OFF THE COMPUTER AND DO SOME WORK!!!
So I'll try and make this quick and I'll read the thread later....But I have been thinking....
I think that there is still a lot of sexism out there. Especially when it comes to sexuality and attitudes about sexuality etc etc.
I don't especially think I've been the victim of sexism or anything like that...
But... Well... To a certain extent it is unavoidable because of attitudes that are still really prevalent in society. And you can't avoid those messages. And because they get to you. Of course they do because they are all around you.There is this hypocricy and double standards stuff that f*cks a lot of people up.
To put it crudely:
A guy sleeps with a number of girls and he is a 'stud'
A girl sleeps with a number of guys and she is a 'slut'
But it is more than that... More than that...Girls are supposed to be exclusive.
And that is about male dominance because they aren't expected to return.
Or if they don't return they aren't judged for it the way women are.
There is so much...
So much...The other day I was with one of my mates and there are these really yummy iceblocks and so I brought him one and then we started chatting to one of his other mates...
He looked me in the eyes and said 'the way you are sucking that I'm suprised we aren't better friends' and he smiled.
I felt shocked
And embarrased
And disgustedAnd when we left my friend apologised that his mate had said that...
And I thought about it and that IS sexual harrassment. Because it is about making little comments to get power and control over another person. And that still happens.
Yuk.
Anyways... Have been thinking.
more later.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 20:57:15
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 18:40:05
... then LEAVE THE ROOM! Thats not so very hard. I mean it might just slip out accidental like, but it really isn't that hard to leave the room. Out of consideration for others. Likewise there are more or less conspicuous ways of 'arranging ones package' . And there are appropriate places to go to pick ones nose.
Sigh.
Is this really so very hard for some people??????
Adagrace - make them do their own washing. It isn't that hard. Just write a note 'I'm not doing other peoples washing anymore' and leave it on the fridge and there you go. There is no reason on earth why you should have to do their washing. If they are old enough to insist on 2 new towels then they are old enough to wash their towels. Washing simply isn't that hard and it teaches them invaluable life skills in how to look after themselves. And it gives you a little more breathing space. (Hint - you might want to hide a couple towels for you first as they might try to break you by using them all up)
I need time alone too.
Yup.
I want an office one day, all to myself.
A nice inbuilt bookcase wall thingie :-)
And a HUGE desk.
I need space to myself.
IMO EVERYBODY needs space to themself.
If you haven't discovered the joy of having a little time JUST FOR YOU then you need to do that for your own sanity.And so that it isn't such a problem if your partner needs that too.
Some people need more time to themself than others.
It can be hard if one person needs more time than the other.But everybody should have time...
I really think everyone should.Yup Adagrace
I can see why you are upset.
But you do need to get the changes rolling along.
IMO stop doing their washing. Thats a sensible first move.
Next thing can be that they can fend for themselves foodwise two days (or at least two dinners) per week.
Posted by Susan47 on June 5, 2005, at 21:54:55
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2005, at 15:38:20
*trigger*, fathers and little girls, you know, but nothing bad ...
I'll think about this, I love that you got the dock thing, the heavy chains, though, I've always thought and I know this is going to sound too revealing, and maybe unwelcome to some women, might be a trigger, but I've always thought of my own father's.. you know.. penis.. as being heavy and huge. Which it is, it's pretty big.. and it looks heavy .. and the huge heavy chain definitely definitely has the same kind of feeling about it. Whew. Yes, I definitely feel some parts of me are "dirty" and I don't know why, I think they're pretty homely, really.
I wish I didn't feel that way.
Because I've heard it's "beautiful"
But that's just really impossible to see.
It's too wrapped up with feelings about associating with, or being associated with, my male parent. I mean, yuch. Yuck yuck yuck. But it makes no sense, you know, because I find men really sexy, not all men, but a very very few. And I'm Hot for those very few, well serially, you know .. I'm not a bad girl, I've never been one, but I feel like something makes me one. (Heavy sigh)
Where's your message for Sunny? At the bottom? Because I'm sending this thing tomorrow morning, first thing. (I got a bit carried away today, with .. stuff, you know ...)
Posted by Susan47 on June 5, 2005, at 22:01:52
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 18:40:05
I was trying to explain to a well-married friend today, my feelings about wanting nothing but real friendship and companionship from some men, and how that has to be exclusive from having sex with the same men. Some men, MOST men, are simply not worth the effort, for me. There's nothing, not enough, Enough Stuff, Good Stuff, you know, about them, to make it worth the while. And most of them want a mommy. Which they would only get for about five seconds, from me. And I'm sick and tired of men who spend half their life in the john, and burp and snort and f*rt and sweat like nobody's business, then expect you to feel sexual toward them. I don't think most men appreciate that in a woman, yet they expect they can get away with it because of their sex, somehow that stuff is not supposed to affect us. And I guess maybe it doesn't affect men when women behave in beastly ways, but they don't respect our sensibilities enough. They really don't. Not most of them. I'm just sick of unshaved, t-shirt-toting, blue-jeans-and-sneakers guys who think they're something. They're not. They're not interested enough in themselves, never mind in anyone else.
Sorry, see, my personal prejudices are here, right here, up front, but so be it. It's my personal experience. I'm also sick of guys who think it's sexy or male to have a short temper. They make me cringe.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 23:09:16
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by Susan47 on June 5, 2005, at 22:01:52
> Some men, MOST men, are simply not worth the effort, for me. There's nothing, not enough, Enough Stuff, Good Stuff, you know, about them, to make it worth the while.
Ok... But... One should be careful about being quick to come to that conclusion. For the reason that sometimes one finds that the people one is most overtly attracted to are actually the ones that you should be running a mile from. And the 'inconspicuous' ones who just sort of pass you by unnoticed... Well, once you get to know them then you find out that they are the real keepers.
But friends first. IMO that is the way. Even if you don't think you will be all that interested.
I find myself fairly clearly attracted to certain types....
But then others. The ones who seem ordinary.. They tend to be the ones who become stunning on the basis of personality. Because sex appeal is to a very large extent in the eye of the beholder. And if you come to really care for someone to really love them and like them then the rest should follow Susan. Whereas the people who catch your eye probably tend to be the flashy people who appreciate their affect and use it to get what they want even if it means exploitation. Do you get me?????>And most of them want a mommy. Which they would only get for about five seconds, from me.
Yeah. I'm not known for being particularly soothing or easygoing myself...
>And I'm sick and tired of men who spend half their life in the john, and burp and snort and f*rt and sweat like nobody's business, then expect you to feel sexual toward them.
Sigh.
I dare say they don't notice.
Stuff like that really doesn't seem to bug them.
I don't know what thats about...Larry?????
> I'm also sick of guys who think it's sexy or male to have a short temper. They make me cringe.
HA HA!!!
Yay, don't ya just love the 'macho' type?????
I have to be careful of guys like that.
I'm too much of a temptation when it comes to slapping someone around because I insist on being argumentative and strongwilled.
But.... I do feel sorry
That they have to resort to that
In the attempt to feel secure in themselves
They need help
But I'm not in the position to
So I just leave 'em alone.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 6, 2005, at 1:51:37
In reply to Re: Ok, so if you want to f*rt..., posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 20:57:15
> ... then LEAVE THE ROOM! Thats not so very hard. I mean it might just slip out accidental like, but it really isn't that hard to leave the room.
YES!!!That is such a huge turn off, revolting and immature (yes I've had grown men announce it)
I go ice cold.. it's just simple consideration.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 6, 2005, at 6:13:16
In reply to Re: Ok, so if you want to f*rt... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 6, 2005, at 1:51:37
Yeah. And belching.
IMO thats not funny.
At least... Not once one is older than 10.(But I should say that I probably don't like that because I can't let out a good one. The effort required makes me chunder).
At least... It did when I was 10
:-)
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:07:05
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on June 5, 2005, at 23:09:16
> >And I'm sick and tired of men who spend half their life in the john, and burp and snort and f*rt and sweat like nobody's business, then expect you to feel sexual toward them.
>
> Sigh.
> I dare say they don't notice.
> Stuff like that really doesn't seem to bug them.
> I don't know what thats about...
>
> Larry?????Eh?
I'm sorry. I wasn't listening. I was in the john, burping and f*rting.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:11:07
In reply to Dear Tender Lar' (This is about male sex, could, posted by Susan47 on June 5, 2005, at 21:54:55
> *trigger*, fathers and little girls, you know, but nothing bad ...
> I'll think about this, I love that you got the dock thing, the heavy chains, though, I've always thought and I know this is going to sound too revealing, and maybe unwelcome to some women, might be a trigger, but I've always thought of my own father's.. you know.. penis.. as being heavy and huge. Which it is, it's pretty big.. and it looks heavy .. and the huge heavy chain definitely definitely has the same kind of feeling about it. Whew.Did he assault you?
> Yes, I definitely feel some parts of me are "dirty" and I don't know why, I think they're pretty homely, really.
> I wish I didn't feel that way.
> Because I've heard it's "beautiful"
> But that's just really impossible to see.The first step is to "let" your lover see. I bet he already does.
> It's too wrapped up with feelings about associating with, or being associated with, my male parent. I mean, yuch. Yuck yuck yuck. But it makes no sense, you know, because I find men really sexy, not all men, but a very very few. And I'm Hot for those very few, well serially, you know .. I'm not a bad girl, I've never been one, but I feel like something makes me one. (Heavy sigh)
Do you resist feeling hot, when you do get it?
> Where's your message for Sunny? At the bottom?
It's in the dedicated thread you started.
> Because I'm sending this thing tomorrow morning, first thing. (I got a bit carried away today, with .. stuff, you know ...)
Ya.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:20:22
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by Susan47 on June 5, 2005, at 22:01:52
> I'm just sick of unshaved, t-shirt-toting, blue-jeans-and-sneakers guys who think they're something.
As a bearded, blue-jeans-and-cotton kind of guy, I might be a tad prejudiced. However, here goes...."Don't judge a book by its cover."
> They're not. They're not interested enough in themselves, never mind in anyone else.
Sweeping statement!
Alternate viewpoint: I'm not so narcissistic/shallow that I spend an inordinate amount of time and money on packaging and presentation.
> Sorry, see, my personal prejudices are here, right here, up front, but so be it. It's my personal experience.
Clear enough.
> I'm also sick of guys who think it's sexy or male to have a short temper. They make me cringe.
I wonder if the two characteristics you describe go together as a package.
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on June 6, 2005, at 11:05:35
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:20:22
Sexy and male don't go together, so what're the two characteristics? I believe when I say all this stuff, I'm talking about experiences with guys, I'm really talking about my last ex- who is a slob, I got sick and tired, sick and tired of seeing this basically good-looking man not know how to treat himself. I used to try, you know, to get him to take care of himself, better care, but he couldnt' be bothered. It wasn't important to him. Now that we're split, it's mattering a bit more. But I could never be attracted to him again, because the knowledge is there, of how he really feels about himself.
My first ex- was meticulous about dressing and grooming. I loved that. Appreciated it. When a man takes care of his grooming and the way he presents, that is extremely sexy.
My last ex-husband, ohhh that is so funny, I never ever as a girl could envision myself with any man, you know how girls dream about being married, having kids? I never had those dreams. I just couldn't see myself sharing a life. I still really can't. Is that sad?
Posted by Susan47 on June 6, 2005, at 11:06:28
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:20:22
The above was for you too, Larry, I forgot to add your name. And yes, I do make sweeping statements and I'm aware of their falsehoods, even as I'm making them, but it just feels good to vent.
Posted by caraher on June 6, 2005, at 14:48:02
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by Susan47 on June 6, 2005, at 11:05:35
> I never had those dreams. I just couldn't see myself sharing a life. I still really can't. Is that sad?
It doesn't have to be sad. Your life is yours, to make of it what you will. Who needs to "be like everyone else" anyway?
Posted by Susan47 on June 6, 2005, at 15:08:00
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by caraher on June 6, 2005, at 14:48:02
In one way, I agree. Because I have my beautiful children, they are a very big part of my life. But I do not want to be an old person, alone. Which is why I guess it's really important for someone like me to keep making new friends all the time. And I'm not going to whine about being alone, but I'm not completely enjoying it, either. Friday night I cut myself very badly with a knife, accidentally, I went to Emerg and had a couple of stitches, and I'm used to being alone in times like that, but the sad thing was that I had to leave my kids alone because I couldn't get ahold of anyone. I could have had a friend come over, I know that, but it wasn't really necessary. It was more necessary for a feeling of comfort, for the kids and for me, you know? That's the thing about sharing a life.. it's really comforting. Even roommates would be better than nothing, I think. Yes, but it's so so difficult to find that person you can really enjoy. Hmh. It's important to enjoy being with the people you're with, isn't it?
Posted by AuntieMel on June 7, 2005, at 13:48:45
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2005, at 9:20:22
I agree that not all men are boors. In fact, I've had the opposite experience - most men I meet make wonderful friends.
And I'm sure my bearded, jeans-and-cotton hubby would agree. When we're through having our f*rting contest, that is.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2005, at 15:57:35
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose?, posted by Susan47 on June 6, 2005, at 11:05:35
> Sexy and male don't go together, so what're the two characteristics?
What I was suggesting was the combination of flashy presentation and anger/violence. Narcissism and violence are linked.
Lar
Posted by gardenergirl on June 7, 2005, at 16:55:33
In reply to Re: if it helps » Larry Hoover, posted by AuntieMel on June 7, 2005, at 13:48:45
Hey, you didn't invite me to the contest. (aren't you glad I held back in Chicago?) :D
gg
Posted by AdaGrace on June 7, 2005, at 17:02:25
In reply to I am Amazed - Please forgive me Men, posted by AdaGrace on May 20, 2005, at 6:17:32
Those attributes aren't what makes me cringe. It's when the door isn't opened for me. When a man will let you unload the groceries because you do it so well. Whe he watches you load the car because you are "better" at it. It's when he walks ahead of you instead of beside you. It's a feeling of lesserness that cannot be described really. The pedestal that a man puts himself on, often shadows those that he stands above. And eventually, a woman tries to find her own sun.
Posted by partlycloudy on June 7, 2005, at 20:16:28
In reply to It's not about f*rting, belching, or scratching, posted by AdaGrace on June 7, 2005, at 17:02:25
> Those attributes aren't what makes me cringe. It's when the door isn't opened for me. When a man will let you unload the groceries because you do it so well. Whe he watches you load the car because you are "better" at it. It's when he walks ahead of you instead of beside you. It's a feeling of lesserness that cannot be described really. The pedestal that a man puts himself on, often shadows those that he stands above. And eventually, a woman tries to find her own sun.
>OK, AdaGrace. This person you are describing?? He sounds an awful lot like someone from whom i would be making secret plans to run away from.
That's what i did, anyhow. Only took me 3 months, too.
pc who cares bigtime about you!
Posted by Susan47 on June 7, 2005, at 21:24:41
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2005, at 15:57:35
Oh. I don't think I knew that. That's a bit frightening. I don't know if it's true. Is it true?
Posted by Susan47 on June 7, 2005, at 21:25:14
In reply to Re: Careful this is expl. could trigger I suppose? » Susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on June 7, 2005, at 15:57:35
No, I've known really violent men. Well put-together is not their profile.
Posted by Susan47 on June 7, 2005, at 21:27:53
In reply to Re: if it helps » Larry Hoover, posted by AuntieMel on June 7, 2005, at 13:48:45
That's funny. And what's even funnier, to me, is that beards are a total turn-off. I used to kind of like them, when I was a lot younger. But now they're just something that gets in the way of the skin, for me, and the men I knew with beards never really kept them very well anyway. It's probably difficult to grow a good one. I haven't seen any men with a really attractive beard for ages. I'd love to see that.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 8, 2005, at 9:11:25
In reply to Re: if it helps » AuntieMel, posted by gardenergirl on June 7, 2005, at 16:55:33
A good f*rt contest could have been more fun than fireworks.
quick! pull my finger!
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 8, 2005, at 9:20:25
In reply to Re: if I'd only known » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on June 8, 2005, at 9:11:25
> A good f*rt contest could have been more fun than fireworks.
>
> quick! pull my finger!My dad used to do that. I *so* broke the cycle. My kids do not know that "trick".
However, unfortunately, being the chemist/firebug that I am, I discussed the flammability of flatulence, to their rapt attention. In my vapid youth, such displays were known as "blue angels".
A friend of mine, so intent upon putting on a good display, wore a holey pair of jeans, and no underwear. He adopted "the position", lit the Bic, and produced a very large flame indeed. So large, in fact, that the frayed edges of the jeans caught on fire. And with no underwear.....
He ran down the hall, streaming smoke.....
We heard the sizzle, as he sat into the toilet bowl. Quick thinking, I might add.
Sometimes, I still laugh out loud. Poor Mitch.
Lar
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Relationships | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.