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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 46 to 70 of 119. Go back in thread:
Posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 10:36:51
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 7, 2005, at 2:13:18
You might need a mild hypnotic, I take one sometimes, every second or third night if I've been having trouble the night before, and they're helpful. Usually if I start having trouble with sleep, it continues for a few days, then abates a bit. A lot of exercise really helps. And reading in mid-afternoon can make me sleepy enough for a nap, which helps.
Posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 10:41:13
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 7, 2005, at 0:31:50
This look that I'm talking about, well it happened in 2003, September or October. And after that I just went off the deep end. I don't know how much of it had to do with him, how much with me, and I can tell you this much: he was an *ss for ignoring what he did, for not confronting it squarely and honestly with me, for not acknowledging his contribution to my problems. I believe I tried to make him suffer, to make him pay for that look and the fact that he never had the courage to acknowledge his error.
Posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 14:34:12
In reply to He wasn't just a Man, He was my Therapist!, posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 10:41:13
I finally picked up this book "In Session" and it's frightening how ignorant my T was, until too far along in the relationship, of what he was doing.. it says here, "Some have used suggestive, even coercive, techniques to gain complaince, modify behavior, or convert a client to their way of thinking. They have directed therapy toward goals that were not disclosed, let alone negotiated, with the client, seemingly under the assumption that the therapist knows best."
Several months after he terminated me by telephone, I asked him, "What were you trying to do, in therapy with me?"
His answer?
"I was trying to build your trust"
By staring at my chest, dear Doctor?
By dressing to the nines because I had, one day, come in and confessed my love to you? Did you think that would show me that I was important to you, too? Did you think you were dealing with a child? Because I'm quite capable of using language; aren't you? After I let you know, with my head-to-toe assessment of you, that I was definitely not impressed, you came in deliberately casually sloppy.
And finally, returned to "normal".
This T I was going to was so incredibly manipulative. I had to be that, too, in the end, and I Hated not being able to be honest with him. He was the best obfuscator ever .. I quote, "A client's negative feelings can be very threatening to a therapist."
That man terminated me because of my negative feelings.
He terminated me for all of my feelings.
He didn't know how to be honest with me, the idiot said this, "My machine only takes seven messages".
It was insulting to be lied to.
"I don't have any availability this week, I have nothing next week either"
I really don't think I liked the way he behaved.This relationship with a therapist is so important to me and I'm not the only one, I am so Normal it's beautiful, I love that, I wish I'd read this book a long time ago.
Thank you to this Board, thank you to every single one of you who brought that book, and so many others, to my attention.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 17:10:21
In reply to Re: He wasn't just a Man, He was my Therapist!, posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 14:34:12
It's quite extraordinary, that book...and it only gets better. So glad you're reading it. I am starting it again.
The normalizing that goes on as examples are given and you get EXACTLY what she's saying...I found it freeing.
Posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 20:06:21
In reply to Re: He wasn't just a Man, He was my Therapist! » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 17:10:21
The link didn't work, I didn't bother to doublecheck I'm going to do this again "In Session, The Bond Between Women and their Therapists"
Posted by Susan47 on May 8, 2005, at 0:06:28
In reply to Re: He wasn't just a Man, He was my Therapist!, posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 14:34:12
Relationship...
now this is an interesting concept. One that I have to say was completely accurate in the way my ex-T treated me. I remember asking him, when I called once, at the beginning of therapy, I called him and I was upset, and I asked him if he thought I was acting crazy, or crazy. Pause. He replies, "Not to ME you're not".
Right away, I'm thinking immediately, that was manipulative. That was a deliberate manipulation and he thinks I can't see it. Now that was really funny. If he'd even said those words without the emphasis on the ME, it would've been an awkward thing to have said. Because he's setting up my reliance on him. Right there. That was the beginning of me noticing. Well, maybe not. Maybe the beginning was the look of extreme interest on his face when he first saw me, then the eventual ignoring of me when my ex- was there, in therapy with me, together, at the beginning. I mean, no man has to look at a woman like that unless there's some intent to nonverbally express something. Which is like lying.
There were a lot of things. A lot of things. Here, something from this book, "'There are only two ways to do real damage to patients: seducing them and punishing them. If you do neither of those things, then you can't get into serious trouble.' (Seducing meant more than literally seducing them; it meant working to arouse their desire for you, their admiration for you, their dependence on you. Punishing meant anything, however subtle, calculated to hurt them.)"
This book reverberated with me, with my personal experience with this therapist.
Now I'm wondering, how many other women's he done this to? Who's he STILL doing it to?
It's absolutely no wonder I was having nightmares.
Posted by Susan47 on May 8, 2005, at 0:51:12
In reply to Seduction and Punishment in the Therapeutic, posted by Susan47 on May 8, 2005, at 0:06:28
He acted differently, as well, very differently, when he was alone in the office versus when a partner was in.
Cold and withdrawn when the partner was in.
More open and kinder, gentler, when alone.
As though, in his own mind, he was doing something wrong.
After awhile, that's how it became, I'm convinced of it now.
Especially because of the time I came in dressed a certain way, you know, and he was .. different in some very obvious ways. He'd have to be an idiot to not know what he was doing in the looks he gave and the voice, how his voiced changed, more than subtly. Obviously. So he didn't have very good control. And in the beginning he didn't try very hard to have control, either, because I honestly believe at this time, anyway, because I have no evidence to the contrary, I believe that he didn't think I'd ever be a threat to his chastity. Somehow I believe he thought he was impervious. I have to admit I was mousier, in the beginning, I'd learned to become that again, in my beaten-up emotional state. And he knows a beaten woman when he sees one, let's be realistic about this. he knew what he was doing, on some level he had to have known. All the signs were there, it was too obvious.
And me, being so used to male-egocentricities and feeding into them, allowed him, I allowed him to get away with it to a point where my tolerance snapped, and I snapped, in a way, as well.These things are all true, I don't know why I never admitted it to my consciousness like this before. Well, I did. I was just afraid to say it, I was so afraid to say everything. But I'm not scared anymore. I might be dead someday soon because I can imagine a psychopathic type of person would want to do me in after this, and maybe that sounds paranoid, but stranger things have happened. That's certain.
This guy when I think about it, really, kind of scares me.
But I have to maintain more control. He's hurt me already, and I somehow was able to help myself in spite of him. In spite of him, and he knows it, he acknowledged it to me after termination, once, in his office, standing there at his counter. He said that, he said, "No, you made it work for you," in response to my statement that whatever he'd done, in spite of all the pain it was causing me, it was helping it make me better.What I'm finding really interesting about all of this is that in finding this therapist, in finding someone and wanting to attach to him so much, I've exactly repeated the abusive patterns in my relationships with my father and my two exes, all men in my life. I found probably one of the few men in town who really do silently and stealthily, VERY stealthily, prey on women. My God.
It's eerie, it's not something I've created, it's real. This guy may think he has good intentions, that's what is really scary. To be that unaware.. is he? I really have to wonder about that.
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:42:37
In reply to Re: He wasn't just a Man, He was my Therapist! » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2005, at 17:10:21
A book that segues really well, for me, from Deborah Lott's book is "Labyrinth Of Desire" by Rosemary Sullivan. This whole weekend was an Ah-hah experience. Wonderful.
But I have so much more to say, still. It's kind of frightening, to think if this therapist had been willing to hear, to really listen, that he could've really helped me, but in the end he served as a vehicle for me to help myself. And I know I would've found that vehicle, in any case, because I NEEDED to be obsessively in love with someone. But he shouldn't have exploited me, he's a therapist. And he did, thinking no one knew. Because I made a lot of telephone calls that were, had to be, seductive, considering what I said on them, considering the state of mind/body/soul I was in at the time. And he allowed it. He allowed it for a long time before he finally put the lid on it, months after I first had asked him to. Because I did, I asked him to put a lid on it. But he didn't. He didn't do that for a long time, and he didn't try at all aggressively, not one bit, to bring it up in therapy. I was always the one who brought up the phone calls .. making light of them. And he let me do that.
I was sick, but as a therapist, he was sicker. He didn't tell me my job was to be obsessively in love with him and his job was to help me get to the root of why that was. He tried to make himself the person worthy of my love. I a lot of ways. That man needed to be loved. He tried to tell me he's the same lovely person outside of therapy that he is in therapy. Well, we were discussing what a lovely person I thought he was, and how that's probably not really true, and what he said was that he's no different outside therapy, IRL, than he is in. It's him, he's the same person. He's just a nice, easygoing person, if I were to ask his friends that's pretty much what they'd say, that he's very easygoing. But he'd already displayed to me that that wasn't true.
And I can't even go into the details of that, without sounding strange, because the incident is almost too strange to be credible, but it is, in the range of human emotion and the way people punish each other, it's very credible.
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:47:35
In reply to 10derheart, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:42:37
Aargh. "Labyrinth of Desire"
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:51:19
In reply to Book Link System, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:47:35
I'm sorry, I didn't submit my links properly. I'll try again, here it really is this is a book worth reading "Labyrinth of Desire". I saw a book thread, was that on Social? Anybody know?
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 15:53:13
In reply to Apology for the Poor Link, My Fault, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 12:51:19
hi suzie q, i'm wondering..since you like to get into these types of discussions and ramble on with me about things..if you know who your 'type' is relationshipwise? i am trying to figure this out right now for myself, and can't come up with anything definitive..
for myself, i think extraverts are always more attracted to me than introverts..guess cause i'm an introvert, and opposites attract. (at least, i think i'm an introvert..hmmm.) yet the opposites attract thing seems to only work one way..cause i still get attracted to introverts. but introverts never seem as attracted to me in the long run as extraverts. am i making sense? if not, that's cool...i am so bloody serious today..i am metamorphasizing as we speak..into what..i have no idea...talk to me sue....amy:)
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:14:12
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alexandra_k, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:41:03
hey alex, where you at? haven't seen you much lately..maybe if i respark our cybersex conversation you'll return???
aimsky
p.s. i was just kidding that one night..i had something i had to go do..i didn't really have cybersex with anyone. :( yet...although i heard it through the grapevine that somebody was sniffing around for answers..gee..wonder who that was...:0) just kidding.
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 18:15:49
In reply to Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 15:53:13
You don't seem like an introvert.
I don't think I have a type. I like men who're slightly extroverted, not to the point of being annoying about it though. I like the self-confident, sure type, nice-looking, attractive but humble about it, not assuming Anything because of his looks. I think, in general, guys tend to have an instinct towards natural self-inflation (OH THAT'S A KNEE-BANGER, banger, get it? All right) okay .. self-congratulatory-type behaviour. You know, I must be really good 'cause she wants me, that type of thing. Then there's the other kind, the kind who wouldn't assume you'd date him if he were Gates himself (no I wouldn't date that man I don't care how much money he's got, he's gross, his nature IS printed all over him, his features themselves aren't generally disgusting, although not overly attractive either, but it's his Nature, you know, it's the nature of the man that shows and makes him unattractive to me).
Hm.
Not answering any questions though, your question. I like extroverts, slightly but not annoyingly so, you know, like the kind of guy who thinks his personality is so wonderful he just HAS to be liked, the blind kind. Those men assume too much, waaaaayyy too much, they're generally really incredibly successful with women and because of that they're a bit empty inside. There's a hardness that men like this develop, over time. I don't know why that is, exactly. I've known incredibly good-looking men who don't assume too much, and the funny thing is, they're all in really happy or seemingly happy marriages, you respect these marriages because both partners seem well-balanced. Hmm. I don't know why I wandered over here, I'm sorry. My mind is dreamily wandering today. I feel free, and sad, incredibly sad. Because I'm thinking about tears being shed, unnecessary tears. Love is always just around the corner.
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:16:46
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 21:07:51
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:29:37
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 18:15:49
> You don't seem like an introvert.
i know..i think i might be split right down the center between intro- and extroverted, now that i think about it. not sure..
> I don't think I have a type. I like men who're slightly extroverted, not to the point of being annoying about it though.
see, you've got it easy..there are plenty of extraverts floating around out there...and you're introverted right? so that's a nice, neat little package that makes sense and everyone's happy..
<I like the self-confident, sure type, nice-looking, attractive but humble about it, not assuming Anything because of his looks. I think, in general, guys tend to have an instinct towards natural self-inflation (OH THAT'S A KNEE-BANGER, banger, get it? All right) okay .. self-congratulatory-type behaviour. You know, I must be really good 'cause she wants me, that type of thing.
my ex....that's my ex....
<Then there's the other kind, the kind who wouldn't assume you'd date him if he were Gates himself (no I wouldn't date that man I don't care how much money he's got, he's gross, his nature IS printed all over him, his features themselves aren't generally disgusting, although not overly attractive either, but it's his Nature, you know, it's the nature of the man that shows and makes him unattractive to me).
i think gates is a narcissist..i can't remember much what he looks like or anything..
> Hm.
> Not answering any questions though, your question. I like extroverts, slightly but not annoyingly so, you know, like the kind of guy who thinks his personality is so wonderful he just HAS to be liked, the blind kind. Those men assume too much, waaaaayyy too much, they're generally really incredibly successful with women and because of that they're a bit empty inside. There's a hardness that men like this develop, over time. I don't know why that is, exactly. I've known incredibly good-looking men who don't assume too much, and the funny thing is, they're all in really happy or seemingly happy marriages, you respect these marriages because both partners seem well-balanced. Hmm.let me guess...your T...just kidding :)
<I don't know why I wandered over here, I'm sorry. My mind is dreamily wandering today. I feel free, and sad, incredibly sad. Because I'm thinking about tears being shed, unnecessary tears. Love is always just around the corner.
i know...i just want to learn to be alone..and *stay* alone, lol. i'm sick of heartache..sick, sick, sick..whenever i start to get used to being alone, though, is always when some dude shows up to sweep me off my feet..figures, right? well, not this time...:)
amy:)
Posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 20:23:10
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:29:37
What're you doing, daring fate? Because fate never steps up to the plate when you think you've got it fooled that you're not looking. It knows you're saying but looking anyway.
Do you know what a good-looking man is? Not gorgeous, but empathic. Not handsome, but gorgeous in his love for himself, his love for what he's found he's capable of, and his awe of that because of the power he knows he has; but respectful of the power, and honest with himself over his use or abuse of it, and honest with others, because he really in his heart can take risks in the name of love.
There're men who're quite happy to hurt others. There are men who do. You can see them, they're the gobblers of the world, the roosters, and they take no prisoners.
A good-looking man recognizes his fears, but doesn't allow the fear to be his master.
Have you ever seen a man who's afraid he's going to be caught doing something he shouldn't? The beautiful turned ugly, for a moment and then for eternity, because you cannot go back, time just won't work that way.
Damn.
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 20:57:26
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 9, 2005, at 20:23:10
hehe..you're so dramatic! yes, i do understand what you're talking about concerning the true beauty of a man..absolutely. and i am not looking for a drop-dead gorgeous guy. been there, done that. it's nice to be attracted, and it doesn't take chiseled (sp.) looks to achieve that at all...i could be just as attracted to an 'average-looking guy' if he has the qualities i want...probably more attracted possibly..or attracted in a better way..i want something fulfilling, ya know..a connection..
no, i'm really not tempting fate, susan..love seriously has been really painful to me..people don't realize that i am an *extremely* feeling, sensitive, passionate person...i mean, it is not overt..it is something i feel inside me for the person..it's not that i'm like one of those chicks on the cover of romance novels lying in his arms with my shirt popping open..not overt like that..but the intense feelings i have for the person are there..i think i must produce an excessive amount of the love chemical in the brain..PEA, oxytocin, dopamine..whichever it is...b/c when i fall in love there is no one more in love than i. i don't notice any other guys than the one i'm in love with..i mean i am intense, honey. and so, (yes, i'm getting to an actual point here :)) love is always going to be painful for someone like me..you feel the intense happiness of being in love with someone, but then you feel the pain just as deeply when they disappoint you..romance is not a stable happiness..it's almost like temporary insanity, lol..for me anyway..i'm a different person when in love..i just don't want it anymore. honestly.
unless..i am willing to deal with the romance part in order to get to the 'friendship' part of the relationship...but i don't know if i really *want* a close friend to work the whole rest of my life around. i think i might be happier on my own...these are all things i need to think about. ahhh sorry susan i went on there a bit long...
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:30
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 20:57:26
i think i prefer introverts. i just wish they preferred me. see, it doesn't make sense..well, maybe they do prefer me..but hell..i don't even know....
aim
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:21:44
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » alesta, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:30
Amy,
I was kind of lurking this thread this morning and happened to notice one statement that you made that just kind of "popped" in my head. You know, an "aha" kind of "pop"...
You told Susan that you thought that maybe you could get through the romance part to get to the close frinedship part, but that you are unsure if you want to "work your life around theirs". (Not an exact quote, I know)
I think the whole point is "making a life WITH", not "around".
Do you think that would be possible for you? If not, why not? (I'm not trying to interrogate you; I'm attempting to develop a theory for myself about why we "feelers" spend so much time in pain instead of so much time with the elation feelings)
Thanks!
sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:02:04
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » alesta, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:30
I met an introvert here in my laundry room. He's a scientist. He looks in his thirties, mid- to late-, he's quite good-looking, but there's something about him that's too guileless or something. A bit fawning. It's hard for me to describe, it's like he doesn't know his own power yet, his power with people. That's the type I can't be attracted to. He doesn't own his power at all.
The man who knows his power but doesn't abuse it, a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me. :) I'm a narcissist. Maybe I like narcissists in general. I think maybe they're attractive, at a really deep-seated level for me, y'know? Maybe you have to be a bit of a narcissist to really know yourself ...?
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:15:41
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:21:44
You might want to read this book, "Labyrinth of Desire", maybe it'll help you answer the pain question. It helped me, I probably should buy it and re-read it every once inawhile. I hope your therapist is a woman BTW, or if a man, one who's fearlessly able to work through things with you.
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:09:42
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:15:41
so what, in your opinion is the difference between high self-esteem and narcisism?
In my opinion, someone with high self-esteem does not need to manipulate others in order to "create the illusion of high self-esteem" as a Narcisist does...
And are you aquiring high self-esteem or do you think you're a Narcisist?
And if someone is a diagnosed Narcisist, do they have the ability to change and accept that they do not need others to be "weak" in order to make themselves feel strong?
I am just full of questions today....I'm not trying to challenge you at all (I know what you mean about others reading what we type with a difference "voice" than the one we mean...)
I just find myself questioning everything lately...and life itself.
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:23:30
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:21:44
> You told Susan that you thought that maybe you could get through the romance part to get to the close frinedship part, but that you are unsure if you want to "work your life around theirs". (Not an exact quote, I know)
>
> I think the whole point is "making a life WITH", not "around".
>
> Do you think that would be possible for you? If not, why not? (I'm not trying to interrogate you; I'm attempting to develop a theory for myself about why we "feelers" spend so much time in pain instead of so much time with the elation feelings)
hi sunny10! how are you missy? :) glad to have another fellow 'rambler'..sometimes it's fun to let loose and just talk "feelings", ya know?anyways, back to the discussion..ummm..
> You told Susan that you thought that maybe you could get through the romance part to get to the close frinedship part, but that you are unsure if you want to "work your life around theirs".
oops..i did day that, didn't i?:) i was just rambling so i didn't inhibit myself i guess...funny what comes out of your mouth..i hate it when that happens. :)
i guess i'm feelling pretty negative right now about relationships. i can't envision what it would be like to have a close friendship with a mate..i don't know how common close, happy friendships are with mates anyway..and if it would be fulfilling and worth it..guess it could happen for me..maybe..i don't know.
i know you have to take that chance if you choose to find out. i'm just not sure if i'm willing do that or if i should embrace being fulfilled on my own. i know it's a choice i will have to make, with no clear answers. i do know that i really enjoy my own company, after i have gotten over relationships that have ended..
i just got out of a relationship, so my feelings on relationships are definitely tainted on the negative side..probably a good thing..they might be protecting me from getting into *another* one!
can we talk about something else? lol i just realized how much a hate this topic i brought up!!!
kisses,
aim
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:47:13
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » sunny10, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:23:30
righto... well... hmmm...
I guess I am rather consumed with that particular topic right now...
Although my SO would ask why you can't have a relationship's closeness AND take time to enjoy your own company solo....
So... we could segue (sp?) directly from his opinion on the subject and talk about why I disagree with him at the moment...
It's a matter of what it is you choose to DO with your alone time. Are you afraid that someone will not accept you for what it is you choose to do by yourself? And that brings me to ...
HOBBIES, et cetera... what DO you like to do by yourself? (Really asking for ideas- I mostly just read when I'm by myself and enjoy it immensely, but am very open to new ideas !!!)
(How did you like my method of "change of subject"?!?!)
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:53:13
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:02:04
> I met an introvert here in my laundry room. He's a scientist. He looks in his thirties, mid- to late-, he's quite good-looking, but there's something about him that's too guileless or something. A bit fawning. It's hard for me to describe, it's like he doesn't know his own power yet, his power with people. That's the type I can't be attracted to. He doesn't own his power at all.
oh, i can get a feel about him just from the way you described him..i wouldn't be attracted to him either, lol. you want someone more..manly..no..hard to put a word to it...i enjoy turning my brain off when i ramble like this.:)
> The man who knows his power but doesn't abuse it, a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me. :) I'm a narcissist. Maybe I like narcissists in general. I think maybe they're attractive, at a really deep-seated level for me, y'know?
you think you're a narcissist? really? no WAY.:) i'll tell you why. susan, *everyone* has narcissistic *tendencies*, i am referring to the clinical definition of the narcissist..one who has narcissistic personality disorder. these people *do not* have the capacity for real love. the fact that you said "a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me." tells me right there that you are *not* one. not even close, kid.:)
<Maybe you have to be a bit of a narcissist to really know yourself ...?
or experience with one. you don't need to have a disorder to spot it if you've studied them..in my experience..
amy
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