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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:06:24
In reply to ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 8:28:16
> Yesterday I was out and about, and there were so many MEN, and many of them were gorgeous, you know? And twice it ws on the tip of my tongue, because I was feeling very very sexual yesterday, it was on the tipe of my tongue to make an advance, you know, straight out to ask ... but my better sense said, no, you might regret it if he goes for it... and the scary thing is I wouldn't have been embarrassed by a "no", you know, because I would've felt good about taking my choices into my own hands for a change, about being the first one to make a move ... I can't believe how randy I felt yesterday. It was nice, because I thought I'd lost that forever. Every time it goes I think I've lost it forever, it's so sad, it's terrible to be alone when you're feeling sexual but just as bad to be alone and not feeling sexual, being alone just sucks.
i hear you. if i'm not in love with someone, it seems like there are hot guys everywhere. on tv, at the supermarket, the mall, etc. i was at the supermarket the other day and this guy hit on me..i had *no* makeup on, so i couldn't believe he was..(in the past i would've rather died than gone out without any makeup, so that is major for me that i can do that.)anyway, i know what you mean about being alone sucking. but actually i'm cool with it today. for the first time in a while. hmm..wonder why.:)
amy:)
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 13:01:38
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 9:06:32
I can understand. I just made myself a cup a spoon stands up in.
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 13:08:54
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 10:06:24
The man who hit on you was probably fairly comfortable with women and used to seeing us without the goop. I love the goop. Sometimes when I'm feeling really good I put lots on, because it matches my mood. Sometimes less, I like that about being a woman, I can experiment a bit with different looks. A bit, because I'm still always me, no plastic surgery... yet. Aaah. Life has many wonderful options. Anyway did you respond to the hit? Because I'm finding the less afraid I am of men, the more open they are too. It's nice. I used to be so afraid of men. Intimidated by them.
I'm glad you're feeling okay about being alone. Mostly I'm okay with it, but when I'm sexual and/or emotional it's horrible. Those are the days I need a male T. I mean, really. I'm going to search out another male therapist. Because I need one. Badly. As soon as I've done my EMDR with this female, I'm going to make an appointment this week. Get these rapes taken off me. They've been part of me for too long. And some of the stuff that goes with being a woman, and the reproductive aspect of our bodies which can be so devastating. Wonderful too, but still. Everything I've been through has added shadows to my soul. I need to be rid of them. Thanks, Alesta, for being here for me too. I notice you were drinking the other night. How'd you feel the next day BTW? I used to get the hangover you-know-what's. I never drink excessively anymore, it's too depressing. :-)
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 14:16:31
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 13:08:54
> The man who hit on you was probably fairly comfortable with women and used to seeing us without the goop. I love the goop. Sometimes when I'm feeling really good I put lots on, because it matches my mood. Sometimes less, I like that about being a woman, I can experiment a bit with different looks. A bit, because I'm still always me, no plastic surgery... yet. Aaah. Life has many wonderful options. Anyway did you respond to the hit?
LOL.."the hit"..:) no, i didn't respond..it's funny. i always attract the 'casinova' type..you know, the smooth talker, really extraverted suave type..and i do not want that type anymore, lol. we ain't bloody compatible..but that's not the reason i didn't respond..i didn't respond b/c i felt unattractive without the makeup..even though he was hitting on me. i just was not expecting it ya know..
<Because I'm finding the less afraid I am of men, the more open they are too. It's nice. I used to be so afraid of men. Intimidated by them.
yeah..i'm just not open to men right now. i'm attracted to em, but i don't want one just yet..i just broke up with one..
> I'm glad you're feeling okay about being alone. Mostly I'm okay with it, but when I'm sexual and/or emotional it's horrible. Those are the days I need a male T. I mean, really. I'm going to search out another male therapist. Because I need one. Badly. As soon as I've done my EMDR with this female, I'm going to make an appointment this week. Get these rapes taken off me. They've been part of me for too long. And some of the stuff that goes with being a woman, and the reproductive aspect of our bodies which can be so devastating. Wonderful too, but still. Everything I've been through has added shadows to my soul. I need to be rid of them.
i don't know if this will help you or not, but focusing on meeting your needs, making yourself happy, without a man is key to dealing with those 'gotta have a man' feelings..i'm not sure if that's what you were saying, but if it is, you might be a love addict. and focusing on YOU and your needs instead of HIM and his needs and him bringing you your needs will help. there's a site somewhere on the internet i can look up if you want me to..if what i'm saying resonates with you..
<Thanks, Alesta, for being here for me too. I notice you were drinking the other night. How'd you feel the next day BTW? I used to get the hangover you-know-what's. I never drink excessively anymore, it's too depressing. :-)
oh, no problemo! thank YOU!:-) yeah. that was a once-in-a-blue-moon thing. i didn't even drink on new year's last year.
aim ;)
Posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 17:01:42
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 14:16:31
No I know and I'm living that, alesta, I'm learning to be happy with me. I definitely am not a love addict, I would've had to have been in love to be that, by definition. I haven't ever been truly in love with anyone before, can you believe, not even my children? Not until after this last male therapist of mine, my god. Somehow, and I know this sounds sappy and has a fairytale quality, okay, but somehow the only way I can express it now is he wove a spell. Maybe not realizing it, maybe that's his magic, or maybe he does practice his art, on people like me. That must be his success. Anyway, enough of that. About being open to men right now, you say you aren't, and in many ways I'm not either, in fact, I haven't met a man I'm interested in saying more than two words to, in ages. And flirting is fun, even when I know I look like an easy time and the guy is just trying out his luck. Then it's easiest to walk away. 'Cause they're not the serious type. I really need the serious type, fun but serious, smart, no pretense. 99% of the men in this world base their entire existence on the pretense. My ex- calls it his "persona". Pppfffffft. In fact, you know the kind of guy who walks around thinking he's really hot? You can see them a hundred yards away, and it doesn't matter how nice he turns out to be, his attitude is a total turn-off. And there isn't anything but Life that will take that out of a man. Once that's out of him, but he still cares about who he is, he's hot. I knew a man like that, once. He was in my mind I think. I made him up, but wow, was he ever Wonderful. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 19:10:46
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine), posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 17:01:42
> I haven't ever been truly in love with anyone before, can you believe, not even my children? Not until after this last male therapist of mine, my god. Somehow, and I know this sounds sappy and has a fairytale quality, okay, but somehow the only way I can express it now is he wove a spell. Maybe not realizing it, maybe that's his magic, or maybe he does practice his art, on people like me. That must be his success.
But that isn't genuine love Susan. He 'wove a spell'. I reckon that most of the 'spell' and the 'magic' is that you really didn't know him as a person. He was removed from you in a way - because he was your therapist. You only saw him in therapist mode. A mode where he was supposed to be focused and attentive to you. He probably isn't like that so very much IRL. If you met him in a different context IRL (and never had him as a t) then while you may still be attracted to him I reckon that most of the magic would be gone. It just wouldn't be there.
But when you just get that little bit of their being attentive and focused to you - well... That is where the transference and the idealisation kicks in and then the fantasy can take off...
Thats what I reckon anyway.
Maybe that is part of the magic?I am fond of fantasy myself.
But RL, the fantasy can never be sustained IRL.
Disappointment, let down, - when the reality doesn't live up to the fantasy.
Enjoy the fantasy.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 19:13:18
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 9:06:32
> > Cybersex has never made any sense to me, because why wouldn't you just pick up an x-rated book or movie and use your imagination
Yeah. But then you can read a novel or have imaginary friends but that doesn't compare to babble friends. Maybe cybersex is like that too ;-)
> i think it is sort of a specialized desire for a particular person. i don't want to have sex, i mean cybersex, with anyone but this individual.I knew it!
Are you sure you don't want to tell me who???
;-)
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 20:32:48
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 19:13:18
> > > Cybersex has never made any sense to me, because why wouldn't you just pick up an x-rated book or movie and use your imagination
uh, the above paragraph is something sue said, not me. that's her quote. just wanted to clarify that little detail..:-)
> I knew it!
> Are you sure you don't want to tell me who???
> ;-)
LOL sh$%, they don't even know, alex, so i'm definitely NOT spilling the beans! no way hosay! FORGET IT! :-) AND IT COULD BE ANY ONE OF YOU! Wahahahahhahahaha! :-)amy <smiling sweetly> :)
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 20:47:53
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alexandra_k, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 20:32:48
> > > > Cybersex has never made any sense to me, because why wouldn't you just pick up an x-rated book or movie and use your imagination
> uh, the above paragraph is something sue said, not me. that's her quote. just wanted to clarify that little detail..:-)Sorry, yeah, I realised Susan said it. I guess I was talking to both of you...
> > I knew it!
> > Are you sure you don't want to tell me who???
> > ;-)
> LOL sh$%, they don't even know, alex, so i'm definitely NOT spilling the beans! no way hosay! FORGET IT! :-)He he he!!! You don't want me to play matchmaker????!
(It is quite all right - I would hate to embarrass you over this - I absolutely detest it when people do that to me). Still... It is human nature to be nosey, I suppose ;-)
>AND IT COULD BE ANY ONE OF YOU! Wahahahahhahahaha! :-)
:-)
> amy <smiling sweetly> :)ROFL!!!
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 20:51:53
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alexandra_k, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 20:32:48
i just read it and all those capital letters kinda glared at me.and i didn't mean to get ppl all curious when i wrote that. it just kinda...came out. oops.
amy:)
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 1, 2005, at 21:00:00
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alexandra_k, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 20:32:48
Not at all! I LOL :D thanks for the laugh
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:00:35
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 20:47:53
> He he he!!! You don't want me to play matchmaker????!yyyyeah..iiii'll..let you know if i need any help...<tentative smile>..no <very nervous, agitated, untrusting, ambivalent smile> :)
> (It is quite all right - I would hate to embarrass you over this - I absolutely detest it when people do that to me). Still... It is human nature to be nosey, I suppose ;-)i hear ya! and i fully empathize...lol (sorry, i don't know why i'm laughing..:)
> ROFL!!!
if only i knew what that meant. hmm. my computer is so finicky right now. figures. when i need to look up one of these allegedly commonplace anacronyms..
amy:-)
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:04:43
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by rainbowbrite on May 1, 2005, at 21:00:00
> Not at all! I LOL :D thanks for the laugh
well thank you rainbowbrite! :-) that's what this entire dialogue is about...making you happy. :-) it was the only way...a bit of a detailed process, but it was worth it.
mwuh!
aim
Posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 21:07:51
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alexandra_k, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:00:35
Oh no, not abrasive at all. Very funny and interesting...
> > He he he!!! You don't want me to play matchmaker????!
> yyyyeah..iiii'll..let you know if i need any help...<tentative smile>..no <very nervous, agitated, untrusting, ambivalent smile> :)Aw. I can be very very good at keeping peoples confidences. Good at keeping the old mouth shut. Seriously, though if you want to talk then do feel free to Babblemail.
> > (It is quite all right - I would hate to embarrass you over this - I absolutely detest it when people do that to me). Still... It is human nature to be nosey, I suppose ;-)
> i hear ya! and i fully empathize...lol (sorry, i don't know why i'm laughing..:)... But if you would rather keep it to yourself then I fully understand (really). Maybe that was a nervous laugh because you were slightly worried I was going to give you a hard time / put pressure on you to talk??? Nope. Sorry if I have embarrassed you already. I was sort of kidding around. But I would hate to embarrass you. I have been embarrassed a lot in my life about things like this - and I would never wish that feeling on anyone.
> > ROFL!!!> if only i knew what that meant. hmm. my computer is so finicky right now. figures. when i need to look up one of these allegedly commonplace anacronyms..
ROFL is 'Roll on the floor laughing'.
It means that I cracked up :-)
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 1, 2005, at 21:35:24
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » rainbowbrite, posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:04:43
Gee Thanks :-D
Wow an entire thread just to make me smile...it worked LOL
Posted by alesta on May 1, 2005, at 21:41:03
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 21:07:51
aww, you're too sweet..i was totally kidding/playing around, alex. you didn't humiliate me whatsoever! promise!i gotta run..i need to babblemail someone..boy are they gonna get a shock. :-)
alesta ;)
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 11:48:11
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on May 1, 2005, at 19:10:46
See, this is where you and I part ways in our thinking. Or perhaps it's in our experience. No matter what the spell is that he wove, no matter what the magic, I still felt love. Love is a feeling. When you experience it, you know it. You never forget it. I felt love from another source, and whether that source was my mind or not, is completely irrelevant. I learned love, see? Period. Absolutely no mystery to that in itself. None.
Posted by alesta on May 4, 2005, at 13:47:22
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine), posted by Susan47 on May 1, 2005, at 17:01:42
> No I know and I'm living that, alesta, I'm learning to be happy with me. I definitely am not a love addict, I would've had to have been in love to be that, by definition. I haven't ever been truly in love with anyone before, can you believe, not even my children? Not until after this last male therapist of mine, my god. Somehow, and I know this sounds sappy and has a fairytale quality, okay, but somehow the only way I can express it now is he wove a spell. Maybe not realizing it, maybe that's his magic, or maybe he does practice his art, on people like me. That must be his success.
well therapists are like anyone else..you know, i can see some of them wanting to be accepted by their patients..so perhaps he did intentionally try to weave "a spell" (attempt to charm you somewhat). or, possibly more likely, you felt that way for him simply because you had disclosed so much of yourself to him..hence you felt an intimacy with him. or maybe he's just a d*mn charismatic guy, charming in his own right! know what i'm sayin girl? :)
<Anyway, enough of that. About being open to men right now, you say you aren't, and in many ways I'm not either, in fact, I haven't met a man I'm interested in saying more than two words to, in ages. And flirting is fun, even when I know I look like an easy time and the guy is just trying out his luck. Then it's easiest to walk away. 'Cause they're not the serious type. I really need the serious type, fun but serious, smart, no pretense.yes, i am also attracted to the serious type! i don't think playful, silly men really do it for me..not sure..
<99% of the men in this world base their entire existence on the pretense. My ex- calls it his "persona". Pppfffffft. In fact, you know the kind of guy who walks around thinking he's really hot?
too well
< You can see them a hundred yards away, and it doesn't matter how nice he turns out to be, his attitude is a total turn-off. And there isn't anything but Life that will take that out of a man. Once that's out of him, but he still cares about who he is, he's hot. I knew a man like that, once. He was in my mind I think. I made him up, but wow, was he ever Wonderful. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i hear you, girl...mmmmmm..tasty...hehe ;)
amy;)
Posted by Susan47 on May 4, 2005, at 18:36:27
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 4, 2005, at 13:47:22
Silly and playful is good if it's done with passion. I think my T wasn't passionate, I think maybe he's not a passionate person, but I made him that way in my own mind because I am, you know? It's the passion I fell in love with, isn't that funny? That I created it then I fell in love with it. I am an extremely passionate person, but afraid that I do live it in every way possible, I do. I don't go out making an *ss of myself every day or anything, and there's lots I'd like to do but haven't done yet, but anything I do if I can't put myself completely into it I stop. I start and stop a lot of things. Most things, really. Because the passion in me is channelled into some very basic life experiences. The animal in my nature is close to the surface, and it fights my intellect all the time. Constantly, in fact.
It's a huge struggle for me. And why would I choose unattainable men as objects of my passion? Why??? Is this chance, what happened? Or a pattern? Could this man really be maybe very ordinary, an ordinary everyday joe type of guy? If he weren't sitting in that seat, talking to me in that voice, looking at me in that way, wouldn't he just be another person, like any other therapist I've ever seen? I have seen a few BTW. And pdocs as well. GP's, you name it, no man has reached so deeply into my soul and taken out so much feeling.
It's not right. To walk away from that, to do that to someone, then walk away.
It's like being violated, it's a violation, it's a crime, a break and enter. A moving violation, a hit and run.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 4, 2005, at 23:50:26
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine) » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 11:48:11
> See, this is where you and I part ways in our thinking. Or perhaps it's in our experience. No matter what the spell is that he wove, no matter what the magic, I still felt love. Love is a feeling. When you experience it, you know it. You never forget it. I felt love from another source, and whether that source was my mind or not, is completely irrelevant. I learned love, see? Period. Absolutely no mystery to that in itself. None.
Okay.
If you define love as an experience, as a feeling
Then you can't be mistaken as to whether you have that feeling / experience or not.So if you felt that feeling then you loved him.
Sure, I agree.I don't think love just is an experience or a feeling, though. IMO love is something that persists through time.
I reckon that your feeling / experience of love is based on transference.
It wouldn't persist over time if you guys did hook up.
You could say that you love him and then it disappears...
Or you could say that you never really were in love (you just thought you were but you were mistaken)
What you say depends on how you define love.All I mean to say is that you feel that way because of transference and the test of that would be whether the feeling would remain if you were to have an equal (or at least more equal) relationship with him.
I think the feeling would go away.
And thats why I want to say it is based on transference
Or that it isn't genuine love.I don't think it would persist.
Do you?
Posted by jay on May 5, 2005, at 0:03:08
In reply to cybersex, posted by alesta on April 30, 2005, at 21:56:25
well..there is only one way to address this thing....BRING IT ON BABY!! :-)I know....I sound like a male cyber-sl*t...but depression is so....looooonely!! :(
<sigh> Jay
Posted by Susan47 on May 5, 2005, at 0:21:44
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine), posted by alexandra_k on May 4, 2005, at 23:50:26
It doesn't really matter, it's not an issue and never has been. Whether it's "real" or not, is completely subjective. It really doesn't matter, in this particular case, whether I felt real love for this man or not. What matters is, I FELT .. truly, something beyond words and very beautiful, and I have hope and this THING in my heart.
Posted by Susan47 on May 5, 2005, at 9:29:42
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine), posted by alexandra_k on May 4, 2005, at 23:50:26
I also believe that love isn't consistent. It does come and go and we have control over that ourselves. When someone you love looks at you and you feel the love returned, it grows. The love grows and makes you love yourself, too. It's the same with hate. If someone hates me, I can feel that and it makes me angry and unhappy.. and I can act in hateful ways. Love works the same way, if I feel like I'm loved, then I'm happy and loving in return. Somehow, I'm able to love my children more effectively than I have before. I'm able to look at my ex- and appreciate things about him, even to feel kinship, without having to judge him for the things I don't like.
Maybe it's not love. Maybe this T gave me acceptance, for a brief period of time, maybe it was acceptance that was in the look. It doesn't really matter. The fact is that my life is better now and I have actually felt love, and it is really an incredible emotion. The emotion of love is full of hope, acceptance, and the desire to give the best of myself. Whew. It's confusing when it happens with a T.
Posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 19:06:53
In reply to Guy answer..., posted by jay on May 5, 2005, at 0:03:08
awww, jay.:) LOL i wasn't sending out invitations for cybersex, lol, but you really brightened my day.:-) and, of course, i am thrilled to have a professional male opinion on the subject.:) thanks for cheering up a grumpy malcontent like myself. you're great.:-)amy;)
Posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 19:29:17
In reply to Re: ReFeeling sexual, Me too (whine), posted by Susan47 on May 4, 2005, at 18:36:27
hi sue,
> I think my T wasn't passionate, I think maybe he's not a passionate person, but I made him that way in my own mind because I am, you know? It's the passion I fell in love with, isn't that funny? That I created it then I fell in love with it.
hmmm..that it funny, susan. interesting. i know, i've created traits for people, too, i think..but that is so funny that you fell in love with a figment of your imagination..
<Silly and playful is good if it's done with passion.
yes, i agree.:)
<I am an extremely passionate person, but afraid that I do live it in every way possible, I do. I don't go out making an *ss of myself every day or anything, and there's lots I'd like to do but haven't done yet, but anything I do if I can't put myself completely into it I stop. I start and stop a lot of things. Most things, really. Because the passion in me is channelled into some very basic life experiences. The animal in my nature is close to the surface, and it fights my intellect all the time. Constantly, in fact.
i am very passionate, too! i understand exactly what you're saying. i could tell you were passionate..you are similar to me in that way.
> It's a huge struggle for me. And why would I choose unattainable men as objects of my passion? Why??? Is this chance, what happened? Or a pattern? Could this man really be maybe very ordinary, an ordinary everyday joe type of guy? If he weren't sitting in that seat, talking to me in that voice, looking at me in that way, wouldn't he just be another person, like any other therapist I've ever seen? I have seen a few BTW. And pdocs as well. GP's, you name it, no man has reached so deeply into my soul and taken out so much feeling.
thanks for the additional info, susan..it sounds like bloody chemistry (attraction) to me, if you haven't been attracted to other docs like that..and he might've assisted the chemistry by acting in subtly attractive ways..you know what i'm talking about..some guys/ppl put that vibe out there..are interested in making you attracted to them, for whatever reason, and some don't. (i say this assuming that it is not really about the variable of making your therapist more attractive in your own mind. is sounds now like it is more than that, perhaps..guessing..)
> It's not right. To walk away from that, to do that to someone, then walk away.
so you think it was the latter part of what i just said in the above paragraph..that he tried to act in subtly sexy ways? or do you think it was the former..that he just simply was sexy to you..(that there was simply chemistry there)?
> It's like being violated, it's a violation, it's a crime, a break and enter. A moving violation, a hit and run.
same question as above.
aim :-)
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